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The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse.
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Joined: Dec 29 2016
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Well, up until now I've only ever fiddled with 4.6 V8 Range Rovers, that is until tonight, when I collected a 2.5 DSE that was to cheap to walk past.

The car is a 99 V registered Oxford Blue DSE with Sandstone Leather, the car has 2 sets of wheels with it, both aftermarket, one of them is a set of 20" Eltex alloy wheels which Paddock retail at £410 a wheel including tyres, and the other set is a set of 19" Range Rover Sport wheels. I've already sourced a set of Comets for the car so both sets of these will be for sale. It's got Sat Nav but it doesn't power on and it's got an after market stereo fitted to it.

The main problem though is the gearbox - there's no drive at all. The selector is incredibly stiff, when you pull it thought the gears the indicator on the dashboard changes from P, R, N, D, 3, 2, 1 and when you move it to low it beeps and the light flashses and it says LOW on the dash but there's no clunk from the transfer box motor. In High or Low there's not even an attempt at drive. There's no noises or clunks as you move selector and when you rev it there's not even a shake from it as if it's trying to drive.

Unfortunately there's no dipstick on this one so checking the oil is a bit more tricky. I need to get under it and check the selector cable hasn't broken or come free from the gearbox, other then that, is there anything that is worth checking?

I've got a 4.6 breaker complete with a 4HP24 box on it, I've read a few things on the net and think with a bit of fettling it might fit. Does anyone have any information that could help?

Thanks guys,

David.

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If the dash display is changing then the cable is OK, or at least is connected and moving the XYZ switch. The high-low is in the transfer case and probably won't clunk if there's no drive going through it but as long as it doesn't continually beep and falsh the light at you, then it is changing range. So it sounds like it has to be the box itself.

The 4HP24 box in the 4.6 is slightly longer than the 4HP22 in the 4.0 litre and diesel but the overall length is the same so the propshafts are interchangeable. There's a spacer behind the flex plate that is a different thickness so that has to be changed or you will either crush the torque converter or it will fall out of the oil pump if you don't use the correct one (can't remember if the 24 uses he thicker or thinner one).

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Joined: Jan 16 2016
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I had a HP24 box fitted to my diesel in 2012 by Ashcrofts.
It is only the early HP24 boxes that are longer - by about 15mm. The later boxes are the same length overall.
On the plate on the box the later ones should say something like 030-065. It is the 065 box you need.
Fit the diesel bellhousing, diesel torque converter and the diesel gearbox ECU.
An alternative is to fit the diesel HP22 gearbox "tailend" to an early HP24 box to make it the same length.
I haven't done it so don't know the details. Or possibly drill new holes in the gearbox cross member?

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Joined: Dec 29 2016
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Thanks Dave.

I've been having a fiddle again today, there's absolutely no attempt to drive when selecting the gears. I need to get it off the trailer and onto the ramp so I can get under it. I think the first port of call is going to be to drop the fluid from the gearbox and see what story that tells.

I've got a spare 4HP24 gearbox here that is still attached to my 1995 breaker that I bought with a knackered engine. I'm keen to try and get it out so I can see whats what with the two of them sat side by side.

Annoyingly though the first hurdle is going to be to sort the drivers door latch, the door is stuck shut and won't open from inside or out. Whenever I unlock the car the central locking opens then locks straight away. Using the key from the outside doesn't make any difference either unfortunately.

David.

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Joined: Dec 29 2016
Posts: 222

I spoke to Ashcroft Transmissions this morning to find out what the cost of rebuilding the transmission would be. They quoted £750 + VAT to rebuild it. Although from the symptoms I gave them apparently it could either be gearbox or transfer box although the symptoms were definitely mechanical.

He suggested putting it in park and seeing if it would move, if it moves then the fault was with the transfer box, if it doesn't move then the fault was on the gearbox.

The car is still on the trailer which is a tilt bed. So tomorrow, I'll tilt the trailer and remove the straps from the wheels, whilst in park I'll then release the winch and see if the car moves. Hopefully that will allow me to make a decision as to whats at fault and where to go next.

I'm popping across on the ferry from Gourock to Dunoon tomorrow to pick up a set of Comet wheels for the car, at present it's got a set of 19" Range Rover Sport alloys and a set of 20" Eltex wheels with General Grabbers on it.

I can't help but thinking that the fact it's wearing 2 of the 20" wheels on the back and 2 of the 19" wheels on the front might have something to do with the fact that it was for sale with no drive from the gearbox.

David.

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Joined: Jan 06 2016
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Likely to be the end of the viscous coupling for sure!

dhallworth wrote:

I can't help but thinking that the fact it's wearing 2 of the 20" wheels on the back and 2 of the 19" wheels on the front might have something to do with the fact that it was for sale with no drive from the gearbox.

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dhallworth wrote:

I'm popping across on the ferry from Gourock to Dunoon tomorrow

That'll be one of Ferryman's old boats then. A couple of his former commands have ended up with Western Ferries on that route.

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Joined: Mar 12 2016
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If still in service. They were sold in the late '90s, ferries nrs. 23 and 24, renamed in Sound of Scalpay and Sound of Sanda.
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Flex plate might have shattered? That would result in no drive.

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Joined: Jan 16 2016
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I would also suspect the viscous coupling if it has been run with different sized wheels on the axles.
You could try fitting the coupling out of your '95. Relatively easy job to do. When they fail they normally seize solid though.
Also if you have plans to fit the HP24 out of your '95, it will be the longer gearbox.

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Joined: Mar 22 2016
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Sounds silly, but some muppet hasn't popped the fuse into seat fuse box and it's in towing mode ?

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I thought that but the dash would display Transfer Neutral if there was a fuse in position 11. Viscous coupling failure wouldn't cause loss of drive as like Dave says, they fail seized. If the flex plate had shattered I would have expected there to be a noise from it, but it's something that is easy to check by looking at it.

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I wondered about a broken flexplate. Would it also cause an instant "GEARBOX FAULT" message? I don't know what the gearbox has in the way of sensors, can it tell if the input shaft and engine RPM are "reasonable looking"?

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Joined: Dec 29 2016
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Well I had a look at the map this morning and realised that although Kilcreggan is within spitting distance of Dunoon, it's over an hours drive. The ferry that goes to Kilcreggan is also a foot passenger only ferry and I decided that they probably wouldn't like me carrying 5 Range Rover wheels onto the boat as a foot passenger. For some reason, Dad didn't seem up for sliding a bar through them and carrying one end either.

So, we had a nice run out in Dad's i6 Freelander 2 to stretch it's legs and we collected a set of Comets.

I got home this evening and carried out the test that Ashcroft Transmissions suggested. The car does indeed hold itself stationary on the trailer when the bed is tilted and as soon as I slip it into neutral and release the winch it takes off down the bed.

I used Dad's 1997 4.6 HSE to tow the DSE back to ours and about 10 miles from home it went into an EAS Hard Fault. I looked at it with Testbook and found a fault saying the air pressure was permanently low. I'm not surprised really as the compressor on that's been noisy for a good while. Stripping it down today I found that the bearings in the compressor were knackered allowing about 5mm of side to side movement.

The compressor on the DSE looks new so I've swapped them temporarily so that the 4.6 can go back into service and I'll order another one up. The one that failed was 5 years old but has only done about 20k in that time which is a bit disappointing as I'm sure there's no leaks on the system. When I cross reference the part number from the Island 4x4 invoice with the part number on the website it shows as being a Dunlop compressor.

Hey ho, a fun day!

David.

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Joined: Dec 29 2016
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Well, I can now update this thread... after an embarrassingly long time!!

I sourced a replacement gearbox from someone who broke a P38 locally over 2 years ago! I got it fitted not long after I got it but it took me ages to finish putting it back together. When I started filling it with gear oil I noticed it was pissing out of the oil cooler so I think I found the reason the original box failed. The gearbox oil cooler pipes were rotten too.

I replaced both pipes and the oil cooler and had my Dad sit inside it moving it through the gears whilst I was under it filling the gearbox. He moved the steering from one side to the other and one of the metal power steering pipes exploded. It was crusty as hell and rotten too. I replaced the steering pipe from the pump to the box and bled that out. Thankfully whilst filling the gearbox I could hear the engine note change and could see the propshaft starting to take up the slack in the drivetrain.

When I thought I was finished I put it in drive and the car wouldn't move. I nudged it into Low and tried again, and with about 1500 revs it moved grudgingly. I stripped the brakes down, the drivers side front caliper was seized solid. I couldn't get one of the pistons to move even when using the airline behind it. the passengers side front was ok as was the passengers side rear. The drivers side rear caliper was ok but one of sliders was seized solid in the carrier.

I ordered a caliper, carrier and front and rear pads from Island 4x4. The discs front and rear were like new but the friction material came off the rear pads on removal and one of the springs fell off the front pads.

Once I'd done this I took the car for a short run up the lane and it was driving nicely and changing gear perfectly which was a relief! After a quick prod around with a screwdriver I found it needed a small patch of welding.

Today it went in for an MOT... It failed...

Both rear indicators were no longer orange... 2 new bulbs cured that...

Windscreen washers not scooshing enough fluid... This was harsh as 3 of the 4 jets were perfect and the 4th was hitting the bottom of the screen.

And the brakes... the efficiency was below 50%...

I trailered it to it's MOT as I hadn't had time to insure it so the new pads on the cleaned discs hadn't actually done anything. It had a run around the block in which we did some emergency braking and the brakes started to feel much better. I let the tester try it again and he got much better readings on the tapley meter and he compared them to my P38 that I'd gone down in and he was happy that they were ok.

So... 2.5 years after I bought it, the DSE now has an MOT!! :)

I started to do a bit of looking through it and found that although it has a sat nav screen in the front it doesn't have a sat nav unit in the boot... It doesn't even have the slot in the trim where it should sit!

The tester did advise me today that there is no play in anything when the car is on the ramp but when driving it to test the brakes he said the car wanders on the road and you're steering constantly to keep it in a straight line so it probably needs a set of bushes.

I'll collect it on Monday and see what it drives like.

David.

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Joined: Dec 29 2016
Posts: 222

This DSE really is the car that keeps giving... problems that is!!

Collected it from it's MOT yesterday. I was home on my own so rather then trying to mess around get back for it, I popped down with the L322 and trailer and towed it home.

Upon moving it from the trailer I noticed oil on the back of the drivers front tyre, a quick rub and smelling of it confirms it's diff oil so it needs a front axle oil seal so I've ordered a pair of them, I then noticed ATF on the bed under the oil cooler for the gearbox which is brand new so I'm just hoping it's a connection that needs nipping a bit more, and finally an EAS diaphragm that I fitted less then 6 miles ago ruptured so it's now stuck on it's arse again.

Looks like it's some more spannering for this bloody thing.

David.

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Joined: Dec 29 2015
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Watch, because I bought some O rings for my gearbox cooler pipes and whatever they were, they sure as hell weren't ATF compatible despite being apparently fuel and oil compatible. In about six weeks they'd turned to something like black evostick.

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I know the feeling. In the process or re-installing the EAS on a friends fully restored soft dash Classic LSE (one of the very last). It was converted to coild springs 16 years ago but we were gobsmacked to find air pressure in the reservoir still after all these years. Pulled out the valve block and compressor and he got new seals and O rings for both. Compressor motor was seized solid so he got another which wasn't much better but with the crank and piston from an old P38 one, managed to make a good one which he took home to fit all new seals to. That done, he got stuck into the valve block and did that. Refitted it (as this lot lives in a steel box under the car bolted to one of the chassis rails) and bought the car over to me. I'd made up a cable and fired up EASUnlock to check the height sensors which all seemed to be working as they should. Then using the software, opened each corner valve at a time and air came out of each pipe. Not a lot though, not as much as I would have expected. Checked the pipe from the air dryer and you could plug it with your finger while the reservoir had naff all pressure in it. Off with the box and onto the bench. While the compressor was making all the right noises, it wasn't pumping anything. Pulled the top off, it was full of dirt and the sleeve was scored to hell. Cleaned all the dirt out, including a load under the reed valve and a spare sleeve I happened to have was fitted. Pump now generating about 150 psi. Connected it up to the valve block and only about 30 of them 150 were getting as far as the outlet to the reservoir. Leaking out of just about every outlet. Then realised. On a Classic, the intake air filter lives up by the petrol filler cap so has a pipe from it to the compressor. He hadn't blown that through with the airline so 16 years worth of crap and dead spiders had been sucked into the compressor and blown into the valve block and air dryer. He's got the valve block in bits again now and is hoping to have it all sorted by Sunday when we might even be able to take the coil springs off and put air springs back in...... Maybe.

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Joined: Dec 29 2016
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gordonjcp wrote:

Watch, because I bought some O rings for my gearbox cooler pipes and whatever they were, they sure as hell weren't ATF compatible despite being apparently fuel and oil compatible. In about six weeks they'd turned to something like black evostick.

The o-rings that are on it came with the new oil cooler pipes so I'm hoping they'd be ok... although, they did come in a blue bag...

David.

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Joined: Dec 29 2016
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Well, reality is kicking in and I've realised I'm not going to get the time to do all of my projects and I'd rather focus time/money/effort on the Vogue SE at the moment.

Does anybody want to buy a DSE that's had a ton of work done to it and has a full 12 month MOT?

David.