rangerovers.pub
The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse.
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Joined: Dec 22 2016
Posts: 239

Hi folks,

With plenty of assistance from gordonjcp, I have finally joined the hallowed ranks with a 1997 vintage 4.6 HSE:
Picture of P38 4.6 HSE

Things I've noticed that need attention thus far (more for my own reference than anything else):

  • battery seems quite weak (alternator is putting out 14+ volts so not that)
  • head gasket on o/s bank is blowing. a lot
  • heat shield missing on that bank too
  • feels quite low on power to me, although it did leave gordonjcp in it's dust - probably mostly down to the head gasket
  • side step on o/s is flapping about a bit, looks like it needs a bit of welding
  • radio has been replaced with a Kenwood offering, but the wiring has been utterly mangled, and what's left sounds awful
  • radio aerial isn't connected (seems to be two connectors behind there, separate ones for am/fm?)
  • various controls aren't backlit, including the heating lcd - probably bulbs
  • headlining sagging
  • b pillar etc trim has gone all wierd, not sure what the fix for that is
  • drivers seat slightly torn on the usual edge
  • whole car including steering wheel shudders at just over 50mph, not always, but fairly reproducible
  • needs an lpg conversion desperately, i've only had it a day and it's already consumed about 60 quid in fuel
  • airbag/srs warning
  • all the windows are complaining about not being 'set' at power off, probably related to the flat battery issues
  • sticky boot unlock button
  • engine is a little oily, but not leaving any obvious drips
  • slight damage to some of the cream dashboard plastic in places
  • cruise control doesn't seem to do a lot; gordonjcp noted the vacuum lines are knackered, but don't know if that's masking any other issues
  • heated seats seem to kinda work, but quite slow and weak
  • gordons car has some kind of heated windscreen, but not sure if this one does, or if it's just not working
  • heater controls (other than fan speed) don't seem to do a great deal (air con clutch seems to be kicking in though), so demisting was pretty much useless

Probably missed a few things, but that covers the majority.

Can someone bung me a copy of this 'rave' thing, assuming that's the best place to start with taking things apart?

Regards,

Miah

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
Posts: 239

On a more positive note, other than the issues noted above, it generally drives well, suspension goes up and down a treat and gearbox and range splitter do the business.

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Joined: Jan 06 2016
Posts: 2312

Good luck- sounds like you'll need it!
Rave can be downloaded from here:
http://gjcp.net/rave.zip
Big file so hope you've got high speed broadband!

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
Posts: 239

Hi orangebean,

That link isn't working for me; hasn't for a while. Hopefully gordonjcp will fix it soon :)

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Joined: Jan 06 2016
Posts: 2312

Try this one Miah- it sometimes works depending on USA traffic
http://www.landroverresource.com/

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 2683

That one tends to be ridiculously slow, I suspect because the Yanks don't like sharing stuff with us over here (which is why Gordon hosted it on his site in the first place but hasn't updated the link since changing over to rangerovers.pub). Alternatively, I've uploaded it to Google Drive https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzxqPPypF5J5N0EteXN2Q2I5WTQ

The problems you've got are all pretty standard
Give it a new battery.
New head gasket
Heatshields aren't that critical, I ran for about 40,000 miles with one missing and nothing suffered
It will be down on power if a HG is blowing.....
Weld the sidestep or take it off. Unless you really need it or like it. all they do is reduce the ground clearance
It may well have once had the high line system with amps in the doors so will have needed a lot of mucking about to make a standard head unit work.
The two aerial plugs confirm a high line system, one on each rear side window as the original radio was a diversity unit.
I spent last weekend replacing dash bulbs on one a mate has recently got, simple enough to do.
Martrim do a headlining kit for the P38 http://www.martrim.co.uk/catalogue/landrover-headlining-kit.html
If you mean the trim inside the car it was a sort of stuck on flocking. It can be scraped off easily enough and the residue cleaned off with white spirit. Then you can either leave it as plain beige plastic, trim it with a bit of cloth or paint it.
Torn seat is common but seats are readily available on eBay
Out of balance wheels or dodgy propshaft UJ's would be the first place to start.
It does need an LPG conversion.....
May be a problem, may need a reset. Post 99 cars reset the SRS light once the fault was removed, early ones don't.
So set them then. Send each one all the way down then all the way back up again and they are then set (until the next time the battery goes flat/is disconnected).
Easy enough to pull it out (from inside) and take it to bits. Usual problem is the spring rusting and jamming things up.
It's a 20 year old example of an engine that was designed over 50 years ago. If it isn't oily there isn't any in it.
Even in Scotland the 20 year old plastic will have been exposed to some UV and gone brittle.....
Replace the split pipes and if it still doesn't work, it'll be dry solder joints in the control module.
You're lucky, usually they don't work at all because people have sat on the seats and broken the elements.
They all have a heated windscreen but the connections to the screen either drop off or the elements no longer make contact at the bottom. Only answer is that big rock that is going to cause a stone chip which will spread across the windscreen.
Until you get some lights behind the display you aren't going to be able to see what it is doing but if you can't change the temperature or where the air is going, then you need to do the blend motors see http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/blendmotor.html

Sounds like you've got a couple of weekends work there.......

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Joined: Jan 05 2016
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What Gilbert said, though they didn't all have heated windscreens - from what I've seen though, if you had heated seats, you probably have a heated windscreen. Whether it works or not...

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Joined: Dec 29 2015
Posts: 641

http://rangerovers.pub/static/rave.zip

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
Posts: 239

Cheers for the rave links, got it now.

Decided to start on the dash lights whilst I was waiting for a working link. Got various bulbs that need replacing, some of which I'm sure Halfrauds will sell, but some of the moulded ones look like they'll be more specialist, eg the ones in the fog light switch. Where's the best place to get them from?

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Joined: Jan 06 2016
Posts: 2312

Best way to look for specialist parts (before you get into Microcat and serious parts manuals) is to search R!mmerbros site (work it out!) for the part number then put part number into LR Direct, Island, Rimmers, eBay or whoever floats your boat. I try to avoid Br!tp@rt items cos (got to be careful here) some people have found that some of their stuff doesn't last very long!

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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I doubt Halfrauds will have any of the bulbs in all honesty, you'll need to order them from one of the specialists. For the switches, STC1877 for the Orange bulbs in the switches to show they are on (except the front fog lamp switch that lights up green when on), the green backlight ones are STC1878 if you need any of them (and the one to tell you the front fogs are on too).

There's three types fitted in the HEVAC unit, black bodied ones (STC3868), a green bodied one (STC3869) and a standard 1.2 W wedge ended one in the front behind the AUTO pushbutton (STC3635 is the part number but that is probably the only one Halfords will have). The green one is for the LCD display and is higher power than the black bodied ones. There's a seller on eBay who will supply a complete set for not a lot.

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Joined: Mar 02 2016
Posts: 290

The Hevac bulb kit P/N is JFC102550B, think I paid about £7 though it can be found cheaper.

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Joined: Dec 29 2015
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Tell you what, even the headlamp flasher bit works properly. I've never seen a P38 like this, about the only thing not there that should be is the boot cover. Well, and the battery cover but I've never seen one of those outside of the brochure...

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You mean this is the one where you can flash the lights with them already on and not get main beam instead? I figured they must have made one where the switch worked properly, seems this is the one.

I've never seen a battery cover either......

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Joined: Jan 05 2016
Posts: 774

Good lord

Do have a (somewhat pointless and in the way) battery cover on my parent's P38. Standard broken flasher though.

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
Posts: 239

Replies inline..

Gilbertd wrote:

New head gasket

Gordon reckoned it might be as well to do both heads, given the amount of extra work by the time you've got the first one off. Is this a job that's easier done with the engine out, or is that just making unnecessary work?

It may well have once had the high line system with amps in the doors so will have needed a lot of mucking about to make a standard head unit work.
The two aerial plugs confirm a high line system, one on each rear side window as the original radio was a diversity unit.

Am I best off trying to get hold of an original head unit, or unbodging the wiring to suit a modern unit, presumably one with line level outputs?

Martrim do a headlining kit for the P38 http://www.martrim.co.uk/catalogue/landrover-headlining-kit.html

Looks good, do you know how close the colour match is to the original?

If you mean the trim inside the car it was a sort of stuck on flocking. It can be scraped off easily enough and the residue cleaned off with white spirit. Then you can either leave it as plain beige plastic, trim it with a bit of cloth or paint it.

Ok sounds like a plan.

Torn seat is common but seats are readily available on eBay

Better off replacing rather than getting it repaired?

Out of balance wheels or dodgy propshaft UJ's would be the first place to start.

gordonjcp suggested UJ's too. Hopefully he can help with pinning that down.

It does need an LPG conversion.....

Probably a whole forum in it's own right, but is that a specialist job, or can us plebs fit a system ourselves?

May be a problem, may need a reset. Post 99 cars reset the SRS light once the fault was removed, early ones don't.

Is a code reader of some kind required for a read/reset?

Even in Scotland the 20 year old plastic will have been exposed to some UV and gone brittle.....

Actually it looks more like someone clobbered it. Are they available in breakers etc?

Until you get some lights behind the display you aren't going to be able to see what it is doing but if you can't change the temperature or where the air is going, then you need to do the blend motors see http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/blendmotor.html

I'll sort the bulbs out first, but based on this mornings defrosting no amount of button prodding was yielding much in the way of hot air clearing the windows. Looked at rimmer, set of motors is a wee bit pricey.. :|

Sounds like you've got a couple of weekends work there.......

You obviously have a lot more spare time than I do.. :)

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
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Gilbertd wrote:

You mean this is the one where you can flash the lights with them already on and not get main beam instead? I figured they must have made one where the switch worked properly, seems this is the one.

Seems so. I know my snag list is quite long, but as you have pointed out, most of the stuff on there is relatively benign and expected for its age. It does seem so far to be a reasonably tidy example.

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 968

I've got a couple of battery covers sitting somewhere... none of which actually on my RR...

I fixed the flasher on my stalk - I got sick of trying to flash and have them latch on! the first time I tried to fix it, it lasted all of about 3 operations - but this time it seems to still be lasting...

Nice looking RR though - If you can't find lamps for the switches anywhere, then I probably have a few kicking about if I know how many of which colours you need, I can dig through and find some working ones in my bag of old lamps from switches that I've LED converted..

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
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Stunningly, out of island, rimmer and ebay, island is cheapest shipped for this lot at 24 quid delivered:

4 x STC1878 (green backlights for switches)
5 bulbs for HEVAC (either as kit or separates)

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Island are often cheapest for most bits, LRDirect are good too and Rimmers are more expensive but their next day delivery is just that if you are in a hurry for something.

Can't be arsed to inline answer so comments in order:

Head gaskets, yes, once the inlet is off it's just a pair of pretty basic 4 cylinder pushrod engines so you may as well do both. Leave the engine in, the only awkward part is the rear bolt on the drivers side exhaust manifold, and the heatshields but I suspect it's that side that's missing anyway as it's such a pain to get on or off with the steering column in the way. Rather than using the stretch bolts, fit a set of ARB studs instead. Not cheap but well worth it.

Just been through the stereo re-installation on a very similar condition 98 that a mate of mine has just acquired. If you have the Harmon Kardon logo on the tweeter housings, you have the high line system. You could fit an aftermarket head unit with line out levels (or make up some attenuators and run speaker level to the amps) but chances are the steering wheel controls won't work with it without more bodgery. My mate wanted it to work as intended and look original but add a line in so he can use Spotify on his phone as the source. The radio you need is PRC7618 (a Land Rover badged Clarion PU9836A) but we found them to be like rocking horse manure. There's a seller on eBay that has some spares or repair ones and Gordon may be able to get a dead one working for you but you'd still need to find the security code for it.

The Martrim headlining kit colour match is spot on, or at least it was on the light grey one I got to fit in mine. I've left my pillar trims as plain plastic but headlights reflect off the A posts so can be a bit distracting. The headlining trim is foam backed so using some of the left overs isn't going to be easy with the slots for the seatbelt mounts. I'm still not sure but will probably paint them if I can find a matt finish paint that matches the headlining.

Depending on how bad the seat is really. If it's repairable, then that would probably be the cheaper option.

If the UJ's haven't been greased regularly, then they are almost a service item to be changed as and when. I'm sure Gordon has done some on his and they aren't difficult or expensive.

LPG, if you go for a single point system like me and Gordon both have, is pretty straightforward to fit and works well on a GEMS engined car. Multipoint can still be done yourself but is a bit more work to install and set up. Some insurance companies want to see a conversion certificate which can be had by getting the install inspected to ensure it complies with the regulations.

SRS fault code reading and resetting needs a specialist reader not just your generic OBD reader so a Nanocom, Faultmate or similar is needed. I'm fairly sure there's someone up in your neck of the woods with a Nano.

Bits of plastic trim is readily available from many breakers, eBay is your friend here.

A Nanocom will also read the fault codes and tell you why the heating isn't working properly but blend motors can often be repaired rather than replaced. Get some bulbs in there so you can see what it is doing then try winding the temperature up and down and seeing if it changes. The Prog button should switch on the front and rear screen heaters, set the temperature on high, the fans on full (but not until there is some heat in the heater matrix) and the flow to the screen. If it doesn't, then you definitely have blend motor problems.

Nothing you have found is difficult or particularly expensive either. Maybe a couple of weekends is optimistic but if you do the jobs a bit at a time (other than the head gaskets you've got nothing there that will stop the car being used while you work on it) you'll have it all sorted fairly soon.