A quick question on how much members are being charged 'per hour' if/when they require garage services (and from independents)....

Whilst I realise many/most of us are (serious) do-it-yourselfers when it comes to our 'classic' vehicle maintainence I wonder what you have been quoted in garages....

I ask because -of late- whenever I ask one (typically about a 'ramp job' for something fairly basic that may take 20-30 minutes) I am now routinely quoted £150-£200... and even when I supply the parts.

Yes. I also know that my question is one of those of the 'how-long-is-a-piece-of-string' type but I would be interested in any/all observations on this issue !

You're in the wrong area. A very good friend has his own business where most of his work is routine stuff, servicing, MoT repairs, discs and pads, clutches, timing belts, etc. and his labour rates are £60 an hour. He actually prefers working on older cars as they are so much simpler, no need for diagnostics on many (an example being anything with electric parking brakes needs diagnostics to wind back the calliper pistons). His rates are around the average for my area, the closer you get to the big smoke, the higher the overheads (workshop rents and so on) so they have to recoup the costs somehow.

£60 + vat.. 👍

Yes Richard 'the big smoke' is far too expensive ! : Had a chat with a couple more garages and the biggest problems here (unsurprisingly) are high rental costs, business rates and also mechanics pay.... and thus Per Hour rates are much higher than the £60 (+Vat) both you and Jim mentioned.....

Whilst being in such garages I 'witnessed' multiple quotes being issued and, as ever, that was 'an education it itself' too...
For instance did you know that 'most CV boots can't be bought separately, you have to buy a complete new drive shaft' ?!
" Probably will cost £300- £400 plus parts plus VAT - but it might be more if the box needs to come out Sir"
Yes, that's right - I watched a customer (faced with an MOT failure) being royally shafted..... !

A Bailcast split CV joint is what - £15, including adhesive ?? Oh well

I'd disagree there, you can buy CV joint boots separately but as most places are staffed by parts fitters rather than mechanics, they would rather remove a driveshaft and fit a new one than remove a driveshaft, replace the boot and refit it. I've been in my mates workshop when he has done just that. He's even got a tool with conical 'fingers' to stretch the new boot over the joint. Maybe 15 minutes extra labour cost so adding £15, and a fiver for a boot, to the total bill but saving the cost of the driveshaft. Split boots are a waste of time, effort and money, I'd never use them and I know for a fact my mate wouldn't.

That type of quote is a cop out. Any half decent workshop will have the Autodata, or similar, system. You put in the details of the car and what job you are going to be doing. It then gives you the time it should take a competent mechanic. On every job my mate does, his office assistant (his missus) calls the parts supplier to get the price for parts, add on the labour for the book time their system says it should take and they will quote a customer an exact price. For example, someone I used to work with has recently moved to my area and mentioned that his VW Scirroco was due a cambelt change but didn't know where to go. From his registration number, they checked the parts prices and labour so I was able to go back to him and tell him £488.49. Not about or roughly, but that is the exact price he was charged. Elsewhere he had been told it would be about £550-600, which, as he said, would almost certainly be £650 when the time came.

that sounds about right Richard even in Australia the prices vary greatly , up tp 130$ an hour, most places here don't actually fix things more a case of replace things and as for dismantling CVs as an example , it's a shaft replacement as the time to actually do the job is more than the boot replacement and time to do it is ridiculous in costs. i have a friend that dose garden stuff mowers etc, he replaced a carby once and it only needed a gasket, i asked and he said i will show you . the gasket was 19$ plus fitting and to replace the hole thing was 24$, yes they are just plastic but the time to repair instead of replace is just to much in these cases. the big problem is most places just replace with recon parts as they haven't the time for dismantle , diagnosis and repair, wait for parts have the shop full of things that can not be moved when there is a 100 cars that need a basic service, which take no time and they charge like 300$ to change oil and filters, it's just not going to happen, the only people that do fix things are on here or in their own shed. i don't know any workshops that do their own inhouse rebuilds. i now mechanics of 40yrs that have never done a full rebuild on an engine. it's hard to find a good one at any price.

My neighbour recently retired as workshop manager for a Land Rover dealer. He saw me using the rubber sucker on a stick method of grinding the valves in on a boat engine I was rebuilding and asked if he could borrow it. Took it into work the next day and asked the mechanics if they knew what it was and what it was used for. Not one of them did.

Think you misunderstood my 'CV boots quote' comments above Richard, in that the garage in question just went for the 'highest-cost-possible' option - regardless of the actual physical efforts/time involved (or really needed). Yes, of course a 'stretchy-boot/ cone' could have worked (particularly as it was an outer cone) but the garage simply wanted to 'max it out' obviously, and capitalise on the MOT failure: This was not helped much by the customer saying 'but I need my car for work' either, but again, that's just 'the big smoke' for you.... and there are lots more (exploitative) stories like that too of course !

One of my ('Split' / CVS18) Bailcast boots has lasted 3 years (so far).....
EDIT: They seem to agree with you though - see https://www.bailcast.com/
Their website (currently) has a banner stating: "Do Not Use - Due to technical problems the information returned is incorrect".... OOoops !

And (somewhere) I also have a grinding stick and paste - back from the old 'decoke' days.

As for the variation in garage (hourly) charges across the UK this covers it well:
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/revealed-the-cheapest-and-most-expensive-garage-labour-rates-across-uk/282688
(I do hope the chap in the photo is removing that tyre not fitting it...)

The costs for work on classics vary even more of course: Generally 'specialists' want to offer £££ full restorations, 'Car SOS' style (?)
Others it seems will simply 'quote high' because they don't want the work either - as it is just not as lucrative for them as a modern car ....

hay Richard upgrade the valve grinding tool , use the cordless drill and save yourself the blisters. works a treat.
the fact that they didn't know what it was says it all in my book.

mad-as wrote:

hay Richard upgrade the valve grinding tool , use the cordless drill and save yourself the blisters. works a treat

I used the drill initially with the coarse paste but then went back to traditional methods to finish off with fine.

davew wrote:

Think you misunderstood my 'CV boots quote' comments above Richard, in that the garage in question just went for the 'highest-cost-possible' option - regardless of the actual physical efforts/time involved (or really needed).

What a lot of workshops will do is charge the customer retail price for the parts when they aren't paying retail so on top of the labour charges they make a profit on the parts too. As there's more profit on a complete driveshaft than on a boot kit, that is their preferred option. That applies to many businesses and not just garage services. I install domestic AC systems, get a substantial trade discount on buying the units and that is the cost I pass on to the customer but I have been shown a quote from another company who quoted retail on the units, plus sundries, plus installation and a further charge for the commissioning and certification. I charge cost for the units, plus sundries and installation but as the commissioning is simply the last part of the installation, that is included. It may be that the other company has only one person qualified to do the commissioning so they use labourers to do the installation and the main man just turns up at the end to do his bit but it still seems dangerously close to fraud to me.

The costs for work on classics vary even more of course: Generally 'specialists' want to offer £££ full restorations, 'Car SOS' style (?)
Others it seems will simply 'quote high' because they don't want the work either - as it is just not as lucrative for them as a modern car ....

A 'proper, old school' mechanic will prefer to work on older cars, modern ones being that more complex and requiring expensive diagnostics (the all vehicle Snap On unit is £4k per year) but the old school mechanics are a dying breed, most these days are referred to as Technicians and are nothing more than parts fitters. Sounds like you need to bring your car up to my mates workshop when you need work doing (although I suspect as soon as you mention P38, he'll be on the phone to me asking if I fancy giving him a hand.....).

You are definitely right about the mark-ups on parts Richard, and that is definitely close to fraud: Seen a few cases now where the garages charge for genuine (insert marque name here..) components - but then if you see the boxes before fitting they are not 'genuine' at all they are mere 'generics'... It is also outrageous for them to charge folks high-street retail prices for consumables - eg. Halfords prices-per-litre for oil changes. Not exactly a mere 'mark up' either if it means 200-300% ?!

( Bit of an 'aside' here but I recall (some decades ago....) someone looking at how much it would cost to build a complete car just using 'spare' parts, and not including labour for doing that it was seven times more that the cost of a new car.
That now seems reasonable... but I wonder what the 'cost factor' would be now ? Twenty or thirty times perhaps.... )

One of the main problems is that car-owners these days may not have enough technical know-how to challenge any quotes that they are given, most definitely if they just failed their MOT and the car is deemed 'dangerous' of course....
'Captive Audience' prices then apply too ! Some of my neighbours have paid crazy car bills due to their lack of knowledge... Better stop there before I start on what those with EVs can expect to pay in the future as they become the exclusive preserve of the Main Dealers only. ( "I'll just plug in some diagnostics guv'nor - at £500/pop" ) Hmmmmm...

It's good to know there are still some 'old school' craftsmen 'out in the sticks' though: Might ask your mate for a quote next time indeed ! Sadly London has just become an even bigger rip-off than ever over the last decade or so for sure.