As you are in Italy, I would think the car is LHD? In which case the front left door latch is the important one with the keyswitch in it. The door latches are also used on the MGF and Rimmer Bros bought the entire MG stock of spares when it became Chinese. As there are very few LHD MGs in the UK, they will sell you a brand new LH latch for a LHD car at a huge discount, see https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-FQJ102292PMA. The P38 latch up to 99 model year has a 6 way and 1 way connector, the MG latch has a 6 way and a 2 way. The 2 way has an additional grey wire in it that the P38 doesn't need so can just be chopped off. If the car is later, it will have an 8 way connector with only 7 ways used. In that case you cut your existing plug off and fit it the the new latch (the wire colours on the latch are the same).
thank you very much Gilbert and you are right on everything.
just tested both latches microswitches, and the LH driver the keyswitch is dead. Always on OL, no matter if I turn or not the key in the barrel.
So, given the expected behaviour from the micro switches test, I'd conclude that a new latch is needed.
Hopefully, this will solve the permanent alarmed status on the BECM as at the moment, logically speaking here, so might be a speculation, the mechanism works, so the door actually opens with the keyswitch but the BECM never gets the signal from the keyswitch micro and therefore doesn't disarm the system, hence the permanent status.
order placed, but flipping hell...39 quid for the latch 35 for shipping and duties....jeez
But still a lot cheaper than the same thing but in a Land Rover bag https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-FQJ103250
Gilbertd wrote:
But still a lot cheaper than the same thing but in a Land Rover bag https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-FQJ103250
hell yeah!
i have done some more playing around to try and resume the BECM from the constant alarmed mode.
i have tried sending signal to the BECM shortening -B to the Blue Red wire that is the key switch line.
it does responds to the inputs, flashing hazards lights, i even managed to get the LED off for about 30 secs, but then it goes back all the time to slow flashing as it's alarmed>
I will send the P38 to 80's state, only mechanical latches for the time being, replace the latch when arrives and then try and find a nanocom to cehck the actual status of the BECM.
funny enough, when I plugged back the White blue cable, the door ajar line, the BECM actually woke up and shut all the doors. SO i believe is a mix of misfiring micros and BECM status of confusion due to the several misleading messages.
so CDL works only if the conditions are right, and at it stands today it's a lot wrong going on
If it went off and then came back in 30 seconds, you have passive immobilisation enabled. If you unlock the doors that will turn off the immobiliser and alarm but if you don't start the engine within 30 seconds, they come back on again. When everything is working correctly, as soon as you put the key in the ignition, the coil around the lock barrel causes the remote to send an unlock code to turn them off again.
So if you do what you did to turn them off (that would normally be a ground on the keyswitch and CDL switch simultaneously and then leave the CDL switch grounded (or it will lock all the doors again) and then start the engine, the alarm and immobiliser should stay off.
When doing the above stuff, leave the doors open. If you want to simulate the doors being closed, simply close the latches using a screwdriver. That way you can access everything without getting locked or superlocked out.
Gilbertd wrote:
If it went off and then came back in 30 seconds, you have passive immobilisation enabled. If you unlock the doors that will turn off the immobiliser and alarm but if you don't start the engine within 30 seconds, they come back on again. When everything is working correctly, as soon as you put the key in the ignition, the coil around the lock barrel causes the remote to send an unlock code to turn them off again.
So if you do what you did to turn them off (that would normally be a ground on the keyswitch and CDL switch simultaneously and then leave the CDL switch grounded (or it will lock all the doors again) and then start the engine, the alarm and immobiliser should stay off.
that's great Gilbert. It starts to make sense now!
In fact i did not switched the engine on nor put the key in the ignition.
but here it comes the next big mess. The immobiliser as mentioned has been bypassed removing the relays on the main fuse box and the car start with a push button, basically jumping start the starter motor every time.
The mess doesn't stop here, The fob is not working either, therefore no wonder why the car is in a such mess!
as soon as I got the new latch, I will look to get the FOB duplicated and put the relays back and see what else the P38 throws at me.
what i actually managed to get working, drivers door close, push the sill button down and short the keyswitch to GND the CDL locks all doors. it wont do the reverse though.
so the BECM is actually responding, simply it's a mess with the the entire system at the moment.
but thanks tou you all guys I'm actually making a lot of progresses, so, a massive THANK YOU!
Pete12345 wrote:
When doing the above stuff, leave the doors open. If you want to simulate the doors being closed, simply close the latches using a screwdriver. That way you can access everything without getting locked or superlocked out.
great advise! supelock connection removed, i chopped the wires to avoid a deadlock again
When unlocking with the key, a ground is put on the wire from the keyswitch and on the wire from the CDL switch, when locking the ground is only put on the keyswitch. With the sill locking button up, so the car is unlocked, there should be a permanent ground on the Green/Red wire from the CDL switch. If the sill locking button is pushed down to lock the doors, that ground will go off. The RH door, which in your case is the passenger door, works the same (except it doesn't have a keyswitch) and this is the same ground that goes to the tailgate so it will open if the RH front door is unlocked but not when it is locked.
So, with the door open but with the latch closed so everything thinks the door is closed, simultaneously ground the CDL (Green/Red) wire and the keyswitch wire (Blue/Red) then take the ground off the keyswitch wire but leave the CDL switch wire grounded. Then release the door latch so it appears that you have opened the door and start the engine. That should take the alarm and immobiliser off and it might be possible to start the car on the key.
When the car is immobilised, the signal from the ignition switch to the starter relay is interrupted in the BeCM so your pushbutton will be bypassing the BeCM. Depending if the existing wiring has been cut or just had the wires for the pushbutton tied into them it may or may not work as it should. Quite what has been done so that it still runs with the alarm on I have no idea (as I don't know how the immobiliser works on a diese) but what relays have been removed?
Gilbertd wrote:
When unlocking with the key, a ground is put on the wire from the keyswitch and on the wire from the CDL switch, when locking the ground is only put on the keyswitch. With the sill locking button up, so the car is unlocked, there should be a permanent ground on the Green/Red wire from the CDL switch. If the sill locking button is pushed down to lock the doors, that ground will go off. The RH door, which in your case is the passenger door, works the same (except it doesn't have a keyswitch) and this is the same ground that goes to the tailgate so it will open if the RH front door is unlocked but not when it is locked.
So, with the door open but with the latch closed so everything thinks the door is closed, simultaneously ground the CDL (Green/Red) wire and the keyswitch wire (Blue/Red) then take the ground off the keyswitch wire but leave the CDL switch wire grounded. Then release the door latch so it appears that you have opened the door and start the engine. That should take the alarm and immobiliser off and it might be possible to start the car on the key.
When the car is immobilised, the signal from the ignition switch to the starter relay is interrupted in the BeCM so your pushbutton will be bypassing the BeCM. Depending if the existing wiring has been cut or just had the wires for the pushbutton tied into them it may or may not work as it should. Quite what has been done so that it still runs with the alarm on I have no idea (as I don't know how the immobiliser works on a diese) but what relays have been removed?
wow Gilbert. this is a propre write up, thank you so much for sharing such knowledge!
I will try tomorrow, it's cold and ark now plus I have put back the door panel already.
Nevertheless, I did attempt to put the key in the coil barrel and turn the ignition whilst the led was off after grounding the CDL wire and the display returned the error message wrong Fob code.
the engine still starts as the immobiliser it has been bypassed but this also means he BECM is alive and feels the inputs. simply is a mess or misleading information.
Missing Relays:
RL2 cooling fan relay on RAVE (doesn't seems to do much with immobiliser TBH)
RL10, according to RAVE A/C dual pressure switch (doesn't seems to do much with immobiliser TBH)
Missing Fuses:
Maxi 2 50A
so, all in all, the missing relays, don't seem to be related to immobiliser functionality, how on hearth have they bypassed it I don't know.
Honestly, if would have certainly costed less money to fix the microswitch than go down all this mess
Maxi fuse 2 supplies the starter motor relay and the air suspension compressor, so I assume it has been converted to coils springs as well as the other 'fixes'. You are absolutely right, it would have been far cheaper to repair it properly than bodge it. Assuming the car is 99 or later, you are correct, relay 2 is for the cooling fan but I'm not sure about relay 10.
Gilbertd wrote:
Maxi fuse 2 supplies the starter motor relay and the air suspension compressor, so I assume it has been converted to coils springs as well as the other 'fixes'. You are absolutely right, it would have been far cheaper to repair it properly than bodge it. Assuming the car is 99 or later, you are correct, relay 2 is for the cooling fan but I'm not sure about relay 10.
correct, is a 1999 2.5 DSE manual and yes, coil conversion without removing anything apart the air bags. EAS compressor, sensors, everything still in place.
OMG what a mess they have made...but the actual effort to bodge it goes well beyond replacing the latch and eventually the fob.