Hi all, i am now suffering 2 more issues.
I have come away to clacton for a few days and whilst cruising on th A12 she started a random judder like she was about to cut out or change gear and a slight clonk seemed to sound, today this seems to be worse and happens every now and then whilst sitting at approx 40 mph and seems worse in lock up however holding her in position 3 seems to make no difference, gearbox rebuilt march done about 1500 miles since and smooth changing....no warnings messages on dash brand new battery and fuse box charge over 14 volts....if only it were that easy.
Slight whine fdom front diff at 25 MPH worse on de acceleration.
Sometimes when accelerated away from the lights hard clonks and the same on hard breaking.
Had an intermittent abs traction failure since i bought the car after it rains ! Could this beconnected ?
Dont know what to think gearbox or front diff ?

Now the LPG
Whilst i am up her i decided to have the LPG system serviced and went to sudbury today to have it done, i have been having a kind of missfire symptom the last while and as soon as the guy heard her he picked up on it, he read the fuel trims and one side was at minus 25 percent (rich) and so he reset the trims and switched her to petrol where she reset and settled down nicely but as soon as gas were switched on went back to 25 percent indicating a fault with the gas system so he tried for 4 hours to read the system but kept saying no LPG controller so points to a ecu fault (stag 300-8) he was speaking to the guy from lpg shop who tried remotely to connect but no success at all, he did say that the system i have may require a different lead as the one in use could sometimes be at fault when reading.
Help !
It seems when i fix a fault 2 more manifest themselves and i am seriously getting to my wits end with the car now as i have spent a fortune on it and its getting worse.
4.6 thor 2000 147000 miles as said recon box new fuse box and battery new coil packs plugs and leads, new throttle position sensor as well.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Just took a slow drive in low range and the fault seems more pronounced then, between changing up it seems to hesotate as if not sure then changes and goes....transfer box problem ?

Difficult to diagnose without seeing it but I'll try and give a few pointers. The lack of connection to a Stag LPG controller may well be that he is trying to use the wrong cable. The AEB cable will fit but the data pins are reversed so have to be swapped over to use an AEB cable on a Stag controller. Even thought it sounds like the trims are out, that would just cause rough running, not an intermittent misfire. I suspect the clonk is an engine or gearbox mount that is allowing everything to move when it misses. Alternatively, it could be that your ABS/TC is intermittently applying a brake. That would cause it to lurch a bit, try tapping the ABS sensors further in with a small hammer or mallet, you should be able to get to them with the wheels on. There's not a lot that goes wrong with the transfer box, the viscous coupling either works or it doesn't and the only other fault is a stretched chain which gives a passable impersonation of a machine gun under the floor under hard acceleration.

Thanls for your reply mate.
She seems to lerch a bit and wanders some what when changing.
The stag cable could just be it do you know anyone near me that could help ?

Or hpw about i try to turn abs off ? Is there a way other than take a sensor out ?

Pulling fuse 27 (or relay RL2) will take power off the ABS ECU. Looking at the diagram it will still allow the pump to operate so you should still have brakes, but best to check it before driving any distance. Where is near you? Clacton or home?

Im in clacton until saturday evening then driving home around 8pm mate.

Only LPG place I know anything about in East Anglia are a fair bit further north, that's Jaymic near Cromer. The Zavoli importers are in Essex so most other installers around there are geared up more to dealing with Zavoli (or similar re-badged AEB) installs. When Stag first appeared on the market it was really cheap to appeal to the DIY installer and soon got picked as the system of choice for the done in a day merchants because it was cheap. Problem with that is if you've spent the day installing it, you've no time left to calibrate it properly so it may well have been out since day one. Once the Stag got established they put the prices up as people had got used to installing it. It's not a bad system, just that many installs using it are not really up to standard.

Where's home?

I live in Portsmouth but couldnt find anywhere near me.
I understand what you mean now and when shes on gas she does smell out the exhaust of gas has done the last year....do you think shes safe to run on gas ? I know now that the two problems are not connected at least just thriws the long term trims out on 1 bank.
How far do you have to drive before the long term trim resets ? I know they have a long and short term trim.

Running rich isn't going to harm anything, it's if it's running lean you need to worry as it will run hotter and we all know excess heat is not a good idea on a P38 (or anything else with an LR V8 for that matter). Running it on petrol will force the short term trims to the extreme so the long term will slowly correct themselves to get the short term trims back to centre. How quickly it will happen will depend on how it is driven, it will take longer on a constant speed on the motorway than on a journey with mixed speed, acceleration, deceleration, etc. But as soon as you go back to running on gas it will pull the trims out again.

You've got a couple of LPG installers in your area although neither of them appear to specialise in Stag so you best bet would be to give them a call and see if they can do anything for you. There's New Farm Motor Services Ltd, New Farm Road, Alresford, Hampshire, SO24 9QE and Hants Auto Fuels Ltd, Unit 5/6 Hammond Industrial Park, Stubbington Lane, Fareham Hampshire , PO14 2PT (although they appear to specialise in Prins). Your nearest Stag specialist appears to be Oxford Autogas (http://www.oxfordautogas.com/).

Thanks so much mate, today i am gonna just pull the near side abs sensor back a little to make a larger gap so the abs traction shuts down and see if that cures the stutter.
Oxford is not to far away from me and is doabble mind what goes wrong on the way there lol
She is a lot quicker now the trims have been reset and running on petrol i just scared of watching the fuel gauge on petrol going home tomorrow night ! Mind i did have her upto 26 mpg yesterday ( gauge watching on petrol ?)

Disconected the near side front sensor which has made abs turn off and drove round in it and its the same, seems to be as its changing gear so im suspecting the gearbox rebuild is at fault, could it be even though its not showing any warning messages ?

It'll only show warnings on the dash if it's an electronic problem, if it's something mechanical, then you won't get a warning except when the mechanical side and electronic side are doing different things. So if it's something that's come loose inside the gearbox, for instance, you won't get a warning message. For what you paid for that gearbox rebuild I'd be taking it back for a refund and getting a known good one from Ashcrofts.

Unlikely I know, but a dodgy TPS would have potential to mess up both gear changes and fuelling..

Likely that the connection issue is as Gilbert said, wrong cable, or the installer might have tried to use wrong Stag software. Some installers that recently started fitting Stag may only have Stag Qbox software, or installers that dabbled with Stag in it's early days may only have older Stag software, neither of which are compatible with ISA2, Some connection issues can be sorted as easily as pulling the LPG system fuse and putting back in. If the installer didn't know what cable or software to use for such a common system I wouldn't be very confident of their abilities...

A lot of installers who fit Stag hardly bother to address pressure and nozzle size. For any type of injectors selected in software the Stag will suggest a minimum allowable pulse duration, sometimes this can mean running rich at idle and during over-run (but the real issue in the case of a P38 would be pressure / nozzle size). Most installers who fit Stag don't bother to do a proper manual job of calibration, instead they rely on the system's auto-tuning facility... This doesn't work well in the best of circumstances but if the vehicle develops a fault (like a broken lambda) the autotune can really mess up calibration if left enabled.

Simon

If you're seeing 26mpg on the dash, then you're either towing it, or I would think it's running stupidly lean.

I've had all sorts of rough running and things when I've had issues with MAF, O2 sensors (On my Thor) and also with the LPG setup being a long way out that it then messes with the petrol trims so much they end up maxed out in one direction or the other and have given me really rough running/misfiring etc.

Can't comment on the gearbox - mine has a couple of harsh shifts in it, but I'm pretty sure it's had a hard life before I bought it.. a replacement Ashcroft box is on the horizon - when I can afford it, and have the time to fit it!

Gilbertd wrote:

It'll only show warnings on the dash if it's an electronic problem, if it's something mechanical, then you won't get a warning except when the mechanical side and electronic side are doing different things. So if it's something that's come loose inside the gearbox, for instance, you won't get a warning message. For what you paid for that gearbox rebuild I'd be taking it back for a refund and getting a known good one from Ashcrofts.

I have rang the company and they have booked it in for thursday next week mate, only had it done as wanted a sound car kind of wish i had not now !
It does seem to be a gearbox or at least drivtrain issue but also still have a miss now and then ! Driving me in sane now !!!

Lpgc wrote:

Unlikely I know, but a dodgy TPS would have potential to mess up both gear changes and fuelling..

Likely that the connection issue is as Gilbert said, wrong cable, or the installer might have tried to use wrong Stag software. Some installers that recently started fitting Stag may only have Stag Qbox software, or installers that dabbled with Stag in it's early days may only have older Stag software, neither of which are compatible with ISA2, Some connection issues can be sorted as easily as pulling the LPG system fuse and putting back in. If the installer didn't know what cable or software to use for such a common system I wouldn't be very confident of their abilities...

A lot of installers who fit Stag hardly bother to address pressure and nozzle size. For any type of injectors selected in software the Stag will suggest a minimum allowable pulse duration, sometimes this can mean running rich at idle and during over-run (but the real issue in the case of a P38 would be pressure / nozzle size). Most installers who fit Stag don't bother to do a proper manual job of calibration, instead they rely on the system's auto-tuning facility... This doesn't work well in the best of circumstances but if the vehicle develops a fault (like a broken lambda) the autotune can really mess up calibration if left enabled.

Simon

He gave command over to the lpg shop who tried for an hour and only after this did he suggest the lead may be wrong ! O and £90 later as well, shall i run her on gas or not ?

dazer2000 wrote:

Lpgc wrote:

Unlikely I know, but a dodgy TPS would have potential to mess up both gear changes and fuelling..

Likely that the connection issue is as Gilbert said, wrong cable, or the installer might have tried to use wrong Stag software. Some installers that recently started fitting Stag may only have Stag Qbox software, or installers that dabbled with Stag in it's early days may only have older Stag software, neither of which are compatible with ISA2, Some connection issues can be sorted as easily as pulling the LPG system fuse and putting back in. If the installer didn't know what cable or software to use for such a common system I wouldn't be very confident of their abilities...

A lot of installers who fit Stag hardly bother to address pressure and nozzle size. For any type of injectors selected in software the Stag will suggest a minimum allowable pulse duration, sometimes this can mean running rich at idle and during over-run (but the real issue in the case of a P38 would be pressure / nozzle size). Most installers who fit Stag don't bother to do a proper manual job of calibration, instead they rely on the system's auto-tuning facility... This doesn't work well in the best of circumstances but if the vehicle develops a fault (like a broken lambda) the autotune can really mess up calibration if left enabled.

Simon

He gave command over to the lpg shop who tried for an hour and only after this did he suggest the lead may be wrong ! O and £90 later as well, shall i run her on gas or not ?

You'd be able to get the lead for it for a lot less than the £90 you mention. TBH if they have charged you £90 and not fixed it to boot either then I'd be inclined to go elsewhere. Given that it tries to work on gas suggests the ECU is trying to work, so you should be able to connect to it with the right lead and software.

http://tinleytech.co.uk/shop/lpg-parts/stagkme-usb-lead/ < this appears to be the right lead to me, but if you contact TinleyTech with the model of your ECU they should be OK to confirm. You might want to check if it comes with the software as well at the same time, if not WTV may have a suitable lead with the software

Some info I got from Simon when getting my kit pointed out that the top part of the inlet manifold crosses over on the thor engines, where are your nozzles drilled into the manifold (if its in the top banana pipes bit then the injector plumbing could be wrong - Meaning that as it tries to adjust one bank it actually adjusts the other to some degree and will obviously get in a mess). A photo of the pipework might help to answer if thats the case if your not sure.

Oxford Autogas fit systems other than Stag (they are actually just a couple of miles off junction 8 of the M40, in what was a petrol station and garage in a small village) So could be a better bet than some, though i've never used them personally. Alternatively take it to someone who can definitely sort it. Simon being the obvious person, but hes a long way from you.

Where abouts is simon ?
She does run on gas and have been doing so since i had her but one side trim is high.
As to the missfire i have done everything else it seems ! Do you you think that the crank shaft sensor could cause it and now its stuttering its getting worse ? Or would it just shut down ?

South Elmsall or WF9 2DS > http://www.lpgc.co.uk/

If its the crankshaft sensor I'd expect petrol to be affected as well?

Also added a note in to the previous post - you might want to check they will supply the software with the cable, not sure offhand how easy the stag software is to find.