While bleeding my rear brakes, i discovered the bracket that holds the rear brake pipes to the axle case just floating in thin air:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hinsgnb8s5vdzsi/2016-09-17%2012.31.51.jpg?dl=0

I tried to see where it had come off, but couldnt figure it out. There was no witness marks or remains where it had broken off. I also noticed the metal shields that are covering the abs cables were only attached at one end, and were just floating at the other end with nothing to bolt onto.

I started wondering what on earth was going on, and today managed to get a photo of the rear axle on a '95 P38:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/82m9nx6ie4062y7/IMG_20160918_140308525.jpg?dl=0

Slightly different angle, but you can see the same hose bracket, and also can see that its bolted to a small "platform" thats part of the axle case. You can also see the wire covers are bolted to a tab on the axle. These features arent present on my axle.

Sooo, i suspect my axle has been swapped out for a later one, as later trucks didnt have the centre mounted flexis, and instead had a flexi at either end.

I want to fix it properly, leaving me two options. Fabricate a platform on the axle case to properly mount the bracket, or convert the pipework properly to the later spec.

Can anyone get me some pics of the later pipe layout? I believe theres some sort of bracket at each end of the axle, then a flexi upto the chassis to another bracket.

I need to have a look on my axle and see if the axle brackets are still present!

Unless they came with them from the start, you'll need to fabricate some brackets on either side for the brake lines and short jump hoses to convert to the later spec. I suspect it would be easier to fabricate a mounting for your current setup really.

it looks like the chassis brackets for the jump hoses can be purchased from the dealer, and just bolt on...

Microcat suggests its this piece: http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/107960/5497/bracket___brake_pipe

Hence hoping for some photos, if i can see where they attach and see if my chassis has provision for the mounting bolt etc!

Bolting on a couple brackets and making up some short brake lines (which need remade anyway given the mess of the ones on there) seems an easier solution than trying to weld a platform onto an axle full of gear oil...

That looks like the one that goes on the body side, yeah. I can't remember what the frame bracket looks like though. If you can't find it, let me know and when I'm home I'll take some pictures of how mine looks.

Could always use some big chunky cable ties to hold the bracket in place on the axle, even if just temporarily. Not sure I'd want to drive around with that flapping about risking the solid lines fracturing.

Aragorn wrote:

Hence hoping for some photos, if i can see where they attach and see if my chassis has provision for the mounting bolt etc!

Hope you don't mind it's a lefthooker, if you want close-ups I will remove the wheels for you.

Cheers, Tony

Sloth wrote:

Could always use some big chunky cable ties to hold the bracket in place on the axle, even if just temporarily. Not sure I'd want to drive around with that flapping about risking the solid lines fracturing.

I already fitted a jubilee clip around the axle tube and thru the hole in the bracket to secure it. Its much better now, not flapping around, but its still not in the correct place, and the hardlines have had n months/years of being getting waggled about so i dont trust them and thus it needs replaced anyway!

Ferryman, those pics are great! Could you possibly photo the axle end of that flexi hose, so i can see if whatever is supposed to be at that end exists on my axle?

also, the brackets that you've pictured, are they bolted to a tab thats attached to the chassis?

Interesting that your brackets have two holes, one for the pipe and one for the ABS sensor, whereas the part number i found only appears to have one hole. More searching required!

There isn't anything on the axle, the hose goes from the brake caliper directly to the bracket on the body (as does the ABS sensor cable). The layout on a later car then has a short hard line (which is the first one to rot away) to another short flexi hose before going to the hard line that comes from the brake modulator. There was some discussion on here a while ago as to why there are these two and why you can't just run the hard line to the hose to the caliper. I suspect it's because the line from the front is attached to the body, the hose from the caliper is attached to the chassis and it's to allow for any movement between the two.

Mmm that was when I originally replaced my hard lines from the modulator to the rear, I went straight to the lower bracket and into the long flexis, losing the short hard lines and flexis.

But then figured as well as ease of dropping the body onto the frame during production, the body is on rubber mounts to let it move slightly... so I bought new short flexis and redid it as it originally was just to be on the safe side.

Answer is given by Gilbertd, the tabs are welded to the chassis. If you want me to picture the 'in between flexihose' I'll crawl under it tomorrow.

Oh, and don't notice my perished bladders, they don't leak yet but I see it is a matter of time...

I thought they looked like they might be getting a bit perished Tony but didn't like to mention it. Sometimes they can look really bad in a photo but be fine in real life.

If it isn't raining tomorrow, I'll get under mine with a camera to get pictures of the intermediate hoses and where they mount.

ahha that makes a bit more sense then, and explains why the part i found above only has one hole for the brake pipe and not a hole for the flexi. Its from the body end of that second flexi. I see now on the microcat drawing, that the lower chassis tab does not have a part number, though the upper one does.

If its not too much trouble, a pic of the routing of the second flexi and short hardline would be appreciated.

This is interesting:

https://db.tt/F1YKdE0n

screen grab taken from autodoc.co.uk, who list the caliper flexi hose and show it coming with the metal plate.

Richard promised to go underneath, he knows precise what you mean. I showed my bladder, I want to see his ha ha. (btw, I left it for 2 weeks during vacation, they did not drop one millimeter with timer removed. Only with timer they drop now and then, might be a NRV?)

Not sure this shows much more than Tony's pic but crawling underneath the car with a digital SLR in hand before going to work certainly confused the postman. The hose from the caliper and ABS sensor cable go to a bracket on the lower part of the chassis, then a short link pipe (which on mine is now in Kunifer as the original steels ones rotted away so the shape will be different to original) to another bracket at the top of the chassis. From there, there's another short hose up to the body where it connects to the hard line from the modulator.

Aragorn what I understand from your pics is that your axle/pipe layout is pre 97, see big drawing below. It has pipes attached to the axletube.

The 'A' frame in the drawing is the past 97 layout and has no pipes mounted on the axletube and has the extra flexi's (5 and 6). The drawing says it is the LHD layout but it is not.

yeh, the problem i have is that the pre-97 cars have a flat plate welded to the axle case, which the flexi bracket attaches to. My axle doesnt have that plate, so i'm assuming someones fitted a later axle at some point for whatever reason.

If i retain the early system, i need to fabricate a mounting platform on the axle case. If i switch to the later system i need to fabricate some mounting brackets on the chassis to accept the later pipes.

Just trying to figure out which method will be easier in terms of access etc.

Plus if you go for the later system the left to right cross-pipe which you have on the axle gets nicely tucked away between bottomplate and subframe, a pain to reach. I should stick to your original layout for accessability.

This is the pipes and brackets used on the later layout.

Bracket 14 secures the hose to the hub which you probably have anyway. The bracket without a part number (but with bolt 9 going through it) is the one that you could see in Tony's picture that has the hose and ABS sensor wire going through it and is bolted to the lower part of the chassis. Bracket 6 (ANR5918 on the LH side and ANR5919 on the RH side) bolts to the upper part of the chassis rail, while bracket 3 (ANR5917) bolts to the body. So it isn't as straightforward a job to upgrade it as it might appear as the fixing points may well not exist on the chassis and body.