Not sure if i'm imagining this or not, but is LPG getting harder to find these days? My usual home station (an Asda) and the Morrisons at my parents are still okay, but when out and about i'm finding they are somewhat rarer to come across. A few shells along various common routes i use have all dropped LPG. Theres literally none on my route home from work so if i run out away from home i have to drive home on petrol!
Shell removed LPG from 205 stations last year. They were supplied by Autogas Ltd, a collaboration between Shell and Calor but they had a falling out so all Shell stations were told they could no longer supply them with LPG. Some of the Shell branded but privately owned stations started to get their supplies from elsewhere while the Shell owned ones just removed the pumps. As the signage is supplied by Shell, even the privately owned ones rarely have a space for LPG price outside even though they do sell it. The filllpg.co.uk website is particularly slow (if it works at all) but a good alternative is autogas.app which works fine for finding the hidden stations you didn't know about.
You might as well get used to running petrol as lpg is not econical for stations anymore ---- that's what I was told couple of years ago at my local station ---- I run my 4.6 as a daily for ages but now just not worth it at 17 mpg
I'm not so sure about that, or they were using it as an excuse. My local Flogas depot sells at 58p a litre but less than a mile away there's a filling station supplied by Flogas selling at 68.9. Flogas depot is only open 8:00-16:30 Monday to Friday but the filling station is 24 hour so they still do a decent amount of trade. I highly doubt they are paying 58p a litre for it when buying in bulk but even if they were, that's still 11p per litre profit, far more than they make on petrol.
Then again, now Nigel (Nigelbb) has discovered that a P38 runs perfectly well on E85 maybe it's time to start brewing some Ethanol?
The stations near me are still going but range from 52p (back of a farm) to 89.9p (BP). My only issue is range. At 200 odd miles, I seem to be filling up every weekend or more!!!
Every weekend? I'm filling up about 3 times a week, sometimes 3 times a day!! Filled up 5 times in 24 hours a couple of weeks ago......
There is an interesting article in the latest sept edition of the Camping & Caravan Club magazine. It is specifically about refilling gas cylinders with LPG, instead of using the usual Calor exchange cylinders.
The magazine article does mention about Shell and BP pulling the plug on Autogas. It said to use camping-gas.com website to find outlets.
The price of propane is getting higher and higher. I have got 3 x 6kg propane cylinders after I standardised on the 6kg Calor propane cylinder for the caravan, home BBQ and my workshop. I recently changed a Calor cylinder and it was £26 for 6kgs! I also have a butane Camping Gaz 907 for just in case.
I have got the diesel p38 but I can't feel smug about it. I use to run virgin edible oil mixed in with the diesel at 50 to 75% usually.
Not any more though. I used to buy 20L containers from Costco. If they have it at all now it is over £25 for 20L.
I checked on prices and in 2014 it was only £12.99 for 20L.
If you can't find the link, it is here:-
It's interesting that Propane with Road Fuel Duty paid is actually cheaper than buying it in a bottle without the RFD paid. Most filling stations have a notice saying not to fill bottles and as they don't have an 80% stop valve you could overfill them anyway. Then again, most have a notice saying not to use an adapter either but I've seen plenty of people using them. I know a lot of the bigger motorhomes, particularly the US built ones with a big V8 powering them, have a dual takeoff tank installed so they can run the engine on LPG liquid but with a vapour takeoff to run heating and cooking.
I've found it harder to get gas when I'm up in Dundee - the one (hellishly expensive) Shell garage in Arbroath has stopped doing it, and the big Asda at Kingsway East has stopped doing it as they switched to an unattended filling station.
There's only the Shell garage on Forfar Road left doing it but because they're EuroGarages they have no plans to get rid, apparently! Good thing too, because even at 64p/l they're still better than nothing.
What I have noticed is that with Shell stopping Autogas, they've switched to Avanti and the pumps are labelled up as "Avanti Propane". Now I don't know if that's straight propane as opposed to an LPG blend - I expect it is - but what I have noticed is that my tired old quarter of a million mile 4.0 goes like particularly dry shit off a teflon shovel on it, compared to the stuff I get at Morrison's.
As for the 80% shutoff valve, mine only worked for about six months and then failed, and now I just kind of go by the idea that if it's empty it'll take about 80 litres, same as when the valve was working. Is there any downside to this? I guess I shouldn't just keep pumping until the numbers stop going up...
I saw a truck the other day loaded with a load of LPG tanks, all with Avanti Propane on the side of them, so obviously another supplier. EuroGarages and Applegreen both have a fair number of stations selling LPG too. For a couple of brothers from Yorkshire, the owners of EuroGarages seem to be doing quite well for themselves, first they bought Asda and I found a Eurogarages filling station in France a couple of weeks ago. I've been filling up at a couple of Morrisons just recently and not noticed any difference and autogas in this country should be 100% Propane except for the lubricant for the pumps. Continental LPG is a mix of Propane and Butane that varies during the year with less Butane in the winter (as it remains a liquid and doesn't vaporise below around 3 degrees C.
A few Shell branded garages have gone elsewhere. There's one in Luton where the pumps and tanks were labelled Autogas, from Shell and Calor. Then the tanks got a new coat of paint and Flogas stickers with the pumps following a bit later.
Gilbertd wrote:
Every weekend? I'm filling up about 3 times a week, sometimes 3 times a day!! Filled up 5 times in 24 hours a couple of weeks ago......
Yeah, but you drive for a living! I’m just dropping the wife to work and buying groceries!!!
No I don't, I drive because I love driving. Given the choice between a 3 hour flight or a 26 hour drive to visit the in-laws, I'll take the drive any day. Cheaper if there's 3 of us in the car too.
Gilbertd wrote:
It's interesting that Propane with Road Fuel Duty paid is actually cheaper than buying it in a bottle without the RFD paid. Most filling stations have a notice saying not to fill bottles and as they don't have an 80% stop valve you could overfill them anyway. Then again, most have a notice saying not to use an adapter either but I've seen plenty of people using them. I know a lot of the bigger motorhomes, particularly the US built ones with a big V8 powering them, have a dual takeoff tank installed so they can run the engine on LPG liquid but with a vapour takeoff to run heating and cooking.
Thats more because Calor (and I'd single them out over Flogas as they are by far the worst offender here) are little more than a cartel operation. They are just expensive hiding behind safety as the reason for their high cost. 19kg Propane bottles are £18 for a refill at Birmingham Autogas (and I'm talking about the type of cylinders they do in Calor here, £30 deposit and they swap your empty one for a full one as a refill). Last time I asked about Calor ones the price was around the £50 mark for the same size. Yes they might have better distribution, but even collecting from the depot seems to make little to no difference in the price.
Good if there is competition at a larger scale for them, though previous experience suggests they will just try to buy their operation if its possible to do so.
Gilbertd wrote:
No I don't, I drive because I love driving. Given the choice between a 3 hour flight or a 26 hour drive to visit the in-laws, I'll take the drive any day. Cheaper if there's 3 of us in the car too.
Sorry wrong choice of words from me…
And yes I love driving too. Looking forward to driving to the algarve sometime soon… (2022!)
That should be a nice run although not the easiest, or, more to the point, cheapest. France has the most expensive LPG in Europe while Spain doesn't have that many stations and they were the only country to adopt the Euro filler so yet another adapter you need to buy. The nice thing about a P38 is you can sit back, wind it up to 80 mph and relax for a couple of hours before you need to stop for another tankful and a coffee or meal break.
We drove down to the Lot region in SW France for a mate's son's wedding a couple of weekends ago. Filled the tank before setting off on Thursday, drove to Dover and filled it there, then stops for fuel just south of Paris, Vierzon and finally Cahors. Did some running around while we were there, runs to assorted hotels picking up guests and having to drive to the local hospital for our Boris mandated Covid tests so we could get back into the UK, so decided to fill up before setting off to head home on the Sunday afternoon and really confused the Autoroute toll station. Got onto the A20 at J 56 and headed south, stopped at the services and filled up then headed north to get off at the same junction. It couldn't cope with someone getting on the Autoroute and getting off at the same junction......
It’s a great drive….
Last time I did it in a BMW 730d and needed only one fillup just south of Bordeaux!
yeah shell dropping it seems to have had a big impact, there was at least 2 shells i routinely passed on the way to work which had it and now dont.
Usually, the P38 just gets used for odd trips, it usually has its place as the third car, so running on petrol probably wouldnt be the end of the world, however these last few months its been getting used a lot more as we've had a third child and two adults plus three kids simply dont fit in the A4 or LEAF. We've ordered a LEAF replacement but its delayed and so the P38's being used much more regularly. Futhermore, at that point its not the cost difference between petrol and LPG, but the cost difference between petrol and electric which is significantly more painful 🤣
As for the longer journeys, i must admit i like driving, but recently i've found that the joy is all sucked out of it as the driving standards are lower than i can ever remember, and the roads are all just rammed full of arseholes. Also, the P38's AC is broken, which hasnt been much fun these last few months!
Yup, that's why I enjoy driving in Europe so much. The roads are clear so your cruising speed is your average speed, still the odd arsehole but nothing like as bad as over here and no roadworks, or when there are the speed limit drops to 110 kph not the 50 mph crawl, which invariably drops to 40 mph.
I understand lots of new cars are delayed due to a lack of the microchips needed to make them work. Maybe it will force some manufacturers to go back to basics?
Nobody seems to realise the environmental catastrophe caused by mining for the metals required for batteries for electric cars ---- I'll keep my disco and my collection At least I'm helping the environment that way