If it is then great!

Since I've had my P38 the A/C has had a minor leak. Regas at start of summer and all is well. By next year, no A/C.

Need to do a couple of things on the car so just removed the front bumper, (rear wash pump has failed). Checked what I can see with a UV torch but can't see any leaks.

Car is a 2001 and only done 88K. Tempted to change the condenser rad and drier while I have it exposed.

Question: Do these leak in any particular area or is the consensus just replace the condenser and drier?

Well it's for things that leak, so will probably be correct. The most common leak point is the top corner of the condenser on the RH side (as seen from the driver's seat). If you take the slam panel off you will see there is a block of foam on that corner and it corrodes under the foam. You#ll only see anything with a UV torch if dye was put in with the refrigerant when it was gassed, you won't see the R134a without the dye. As it has been working but is slowly losing gas, there's no need to replace the drier. That is only necessary if the system has been left with only air in it for any length of time.

Thanks. Will go for a new condenser.

so there's no UV trace anywhere? Who did the refill ? Usually the receipt will tell you how much PAG oil and how much dye went in (if any), my refills always had the die (Kwik fit/ ATS). Personally i wouldn't start throwing bits at it until you trace the leak. My compressor was leaking around the boss and left green traces on the clutch.

I have owned my P38 2001 Vogue for twelve years & every year I have to get the A/C recharged. Like the OP I must have a micro leak. I always use the ATS Groupon deal (currently £41.99) https://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/ats-euromaster-6 This year at my last recharge the guy at ATS recommended I use STP Super Seal which is like Radweld for A/C systems. https://www.amazon.co.uk/STP-Super-Conditioning-Nitrile-Gloves/dp/B07RWJT4H6 @Gilbertd installs domestic A/C systems & has endorsed the product too.

I will have a thorough look around the pump today.

Definitely no sign of a leak under the bit of foam on the top corner although the alloy is corroded there.

Condensors for late models are unavailable but you can fit the earlier taller one which involves a small mod to the car with a grinder and a new compressor to condensor hose, island 4x4 do both .

phazed wrote:

Definitely no sign of a leak under the bit of foam on the top corner although the alloy is corroded there.

If it taking the best part of a year to lose a charge,you only have an extremely tiny leak so the STP leak stop will almost certainly cure it for at least a couple of years. Bear in mind that the system runs at 10 bar so to lose 1250g of refrigerant in a year is an extremely small leak.

Condensors for late models are unavailable but ...

What would be a "late model"? Mine is a 00 and I had the condenser replaced spring time, my AC guy had no problems to order and secure one. I can ask him what brand it is, he told me but I forgot ...

2001 onwards I believe, mines 2001 and needed modding. Diesel though, don't know if petrol is different.

Chrisp38 wrote:

2001 onwards I believe, mines 2001 and needed modding. Diesel though, don't know if petrol is different.

That is interesting. Mine is a 2001 so will keep that in mind…

phazed wrote:

I will have a thorough look around the pump today.

Definitely no sign of a leak under the bit of foam on the top corner although the alloy is corroded there.

Had a look at night when it was properly dark with the uv torch, (and my mechanic son). We came to the conclusion that it is leaking from the top corner…

New condenser will be ordered today.

Thanks guys, most useful information. 😁

The top corner is a weak spot, I’ve had a couple go there. There seems to some weird interaction with moisture and abrasion at that point, probably to do with airflow. The last one I had fitted I taped around that corner and then cut a piece of soft foam for the corner and then taped that on. Haven’t had any trouble since.

Good deal from ATS, which I didn't know about.

However ATS don't do leak detection. Put mine in on Thursday to be done, wandered off to town for the suggested hour and came back to find nothing done. Told it had a leak and to take it to a garage to find it and get it fixed. I know the guy they suggested so no issues there but annoying all the same.

Another micro leak as it took nearly 3 years to go down. Previous filler put the dye in so hopefully there is still enough residue to see where the leak is.

Clive

Clive

They must do a leak test otherwise they wouldn't know you had one? They won't be able to tell you were from but that is a different job and way beyond their capabilities. ATS, or at least my local one when the missus took advantage of their cheap deal, use the programmable machine as they don't really understand what it is they are doing. When I did my full FGas course to allow me to install domestic AC systems, I asked what the difference was between the full week course I was doing and the 1 day automotive course. I was told that the automotive course only teaches how to do it and not why you are doing it that way or how the system works. I paid an additional exam fee so I could do both exams and get both qualifications. Compared with the FGas exam, the 20 question automotive exam was so simple although they allow 30 minutes to complete it, I did it in under 5 minutes!

The process is to use a recovery machine to slurp out any remaining refrigerant (if there is any in there in the first place), pressurise the system with Nitrogen at 10bar and leave it for a minimum of 30 minutes to check that the pressure hasn't dropped, release the Nitrogen then vacuum out to 1000 microns (0.019 psi), then refill with the correct quantity of refrigerant along with oil and dye (if you can be bothered). In comparison on a domestic/commercial system it is pressure tested at 42 bar for a minimum of 60 minutes and vacuumed to 150 microns (0.002 psi).

However, other than having at least one person that has sat the exam so they have the required qualification, the ATS/KwikFit, etc. places use a machine to do it. They connect the hoses, tell it how much refrigerant the car they are doing needs (or leave it at the default 600 grams as refrigerant has shot up in price and it will still work after a fashion with a short charge), press go and leave it to get on with it. If the machine detects a drop in pressure on the Nitrogen test, it stops and tells them there is a leak, so that is what they tell the customer. They've probably forgotten everything they were taught on the course as they don't need to know it, the machine does it all for them. What they don't think about is temperature differences and a car with a slight leak will still pass the test. The Nitrogen bottle is at ambient, you drive your car in so the engine is hot, Nitrogen is put in at 10 bar but for every 10 degrees C increase in temperature, the pressure will increase by roughly 0.5 bar, or 7 psi. So the pressure actually increases and as long as it doesn't leak more than the 0.5 bar that is taken up by the thermal expansion of the gas, the machine is perfectly happy. If the car is cold and the Nitrogen bottle is standing in the sun, the opposite happens. The pressure drops as the temperature falls and the machine says you have a leak when you haven't.

phazed wrote:

Chrisp38 wrote:

2001 onwards I believe, mines 2001 and needed modding. Diesel though, don't know if petrol is different.

That is interesting. Mine is a 2001 so will keep that in mind…
Still got the old shorter condenser in my scrap metal pile, if your condensor is taller than this then you have the earlier easy to obtain condensor, if its the same height as my scrap one then you'll need the early condensor AND a new compressor to condensor hose either new or used off an earlier model. Plus the easy grinder work.
From memory, the new hose is £175? Condensors around £70.
The LATER condensor is 368mm tall,all other measurements are the same. The reason you need another hose is because the fitting on the condensor is different between early/ late hoses.

My parts guy, (BMG in Leatherhead), sourced the correct late radiator and dryer.

Fitted yesterday and was re-gassed this morning. All good and freezing cold, where is my jumper!

Thanks for your help guys.

When I tried to get a later condensor I drew a blank except a new LR one, complete with fans, for £1200! That's when I discovered the mod. £250 all new parts.
I'd get some protection under those top corners, easy to do yourself, grill and slam panel off and some closed cell foam folded over them corners, reassemble.
I actually got brain freeze on a long trip a week ago or so 😄

I left mine naked as it is the foam that causes the leaks in the first place. Damp and dust get into the foam and that acts like sandpaper with the added advantage of moisture causing corrosion. Left open to the air and it shouldn't leak again. I just leave mine set at 20 degrees Auto so it keeps the car interior down to that rather than setting it any lower and getting frostbite!

20 is way to warm when you have a menopausal wife !