found a wiring diagram for (i think) my lpg ecu.

Says that violet and grey go to lamba sensor. On my lpg ecu, there is only 1 violet wire so i'll assume thats it. Also GilbertD said about a purple wire. So, there is Violet, a grey wire in next pin and opposite them is violet with a black stripe, and grey with a black stripe. The black striped ones i'd assume are for the opposite side O2 sensor. Again, i can't find anywhere on the loom that they have been spliced in, but it is all inside sheathing and quite well done.

Should i stick it all back together and run it with the lpg ecu disconnected????

Might need to slow down / backtrack a bit.

I may be wrong but I don't think I've seen a pic of this install and if it's Tartarini it could be a none sequential system such as Etagas / Tec97 / Tec95? Those three systems do need lambda connection - and if purple wire is disconnected (if grey wire is connected) this will break the connection between lambda signal by default. Edit.. If it has black striped purple and grey wires it could only be sequential or Etagas.

In certain conditions some models can read around 0.4v in diagnostics regardless of actual lambda voltage. Such conditions can include cold open loop and fault open loop... but such fault might not actually be a lambda problem and it would be a coincidence if both lambdas broke in a way that made them both output a constant 0.4v. Some petrol ECUs can even output around 0.4v to the lambda signal wire under such conditions, it is the way some older type ECUs fool themselves into seeing a lambda voltage that holds stft's at zero, a sort of lambda emulation built into the petrol ECU. On such systems the only way to read actual lambda voltage with the fault present is to cut the signal wire between the petrol ECU and the lambda and put a multimeter directly to the lambda signal wire.

If it's Etagas and grey wire is connected, the Etagas may be programmed to deliver constant 0.4v on the grey wire.

Simon

a bit over my head mate i'm afraid. i'm muddling through and trying to fault find using the advice given.

blueplasticsoulman wrote:

a bit over my head mate i'm afraid. i'm muddling through and trying to fault find using the advice given.

Tartarini made various types of LPG system, some earlier advice is only relevant to the newer type of Tartarini system which uses pulsing LPG injectors. If you post a pic of your engine bay we can tell you which type of LPG system you have.

Simon

Yes, the heat shrinked black wires in teh first picture are a bunch of earths all connected together. You've got two pairs of screened wires in teh second pic, one with a blue and red/black which goes to the RH bank lambda sensors, the other one is an orange paired with a red/black. These are screened so the bit you can see in the third pic is the screening. Each of those are paired with a White/Orange (which you can see coming out of the connector in the last pic) and a Brown/Pink that comes direct from Fuse 28.

However what isn't there is anything tapped into it for the LPG system......

so i unplugged the lpg ecu completely. Wouldn't start. turning over no bother. I guess the immobiliser or something is connected into that ecu. Plugged it back in but i didnt connect the power to it and she started.

Still not right but it drives much improved with the lpg ecu not powered up. looked at diagnostics. still 0.0volts on o2 and fuel trims were not moving on bank 2.

until.........

I put my foot down on a nice bit of straight and the bank 2 fuel trims moved. Then they went back to nothing.

Looked at fault codes and the only one listed is P1319. No others. Cleared the code and went for another cruise round. Checked codes again, still P1319 but nothing else.

It would seem with no power to lpg system, it doesn't develop the 02 faul codes. However, O2 on bank 2 still reads 0.0v and never moves.

Car sounds a little bit like an old beetle.

One thing i haven't done is check that theres voltage at the O2 sensor. Probably shoulda done that first. Ignition on but car not started and see if there's 12v?

appreciate the help everyone.

P1319 is for low fuel isn't it. As in the engines not getting enough. Not that i need to go put a tenner in.

I've tried monitoring fuel pressure with torque but i get no data from that.

Lpgc wrote:

blueplasticsoulman wrote:

a bit over my head mate i'm afraid. i'm muddling through and trying to fault find using the advice given.

Tartarini made various types of LPG system, some earlier advice is only relevant to the newer type of Tartarini system which uses pulsing LPG injectors. If you post a pic of your engine bay we can tell you which type of LPG system you have.

Simon

pictures of engine bay

https://ibb.co/fFZWt5
https://ibb.co/gzYPD5
https://ibb.co/fecO6Q

Yup, that's a modern sequential system and not something really horrible like an Etagas. I'm wondering if Torque is telling the truth and you really don't have anything from the lambda sensor or if it isn't showing it. I say that as the trims altered under acceleration yet the lambda output didn't. With no lambda signal the trims wouldn't move, they'd be stuck hard over one way and not at zero.

so whats your advice GilbertD?

Just read something interesting on another forum. Guy with similar problems was getting P1319. He doesn't mention the O2 sensors though. Says car running not to bad on lpg but on petrol was rubbish. He tried all sorts from coil pack, ht leads, nothing worked. He eventually took it to landrover who plugged it in, reset the fuel values and it was fixed.

The reply to him was someone saying that the long term fuel trims were so far out that the short term trims cant go wide enough to fuel it properly and that the LPG should be serviced and adjusted up properly.

Any of that apply to me?

blueplasticsoulman wrote:

Just read something interesting on another forum. Guy with similar problems was getting P1319. He doesn't mention the O2 sensors though. Says car running not to bad on lpg but on petrol was rubbish. He tried all sorts from coil pack, ht leads, nothing worked. He eventually took it to landrover who plugged it in, reset the fuel values and it was fixed.

The reply to him was someone saying that the long term fuel trims were so far out that the short term trims cant go wide enough to fuel it properly and that the LPG should be serviced and adjusted up properly.

Any of that apply to me?

You should be able to view the trims in Torque - What are they showing? Both banks and long and short term?

BrianH wrote:

blueplasticsoulman wrote:

Just read something interesting on another forum. Guy with similar problems was getting P1319. He doesn't mention the O2 sensors though. Says car running not to bad on lpg but on petrol was rubbish. He tried all sorts from coil pack, ht leads, nothing worked. He eventually took it to landrover who plugged it in, reset the fuel values and it was fixed.

The reply to him was someone saying that the long term fuel trims were so far out that the short term trims cant go wide enough to fuel it properly and that the LPG should be serviced and adjusted up properly.

Any of that apply to me?

You should be able to view the trims in Torque - What are they showing? Both banks and long and short term?

Already done. Read full topic for back story.

But can Torque reset the adaptive values? That would reset the trims to base settings. A normal code reader can't, the only thing I know that can is a dedicated diagnostic tool such as a Nanocom, Lynx, Tesbook, etc.

Gilbertd wrote:

But can Torque reset the adaptive values? That would reset the trims to base settings. A normal code reader can't, the only thing I know that can is a dedicated diagnostic tool such as a Nanocom, Lynx, Tesbook, etc.

No torque can't do that. Am i at the point where i go get it plugged in or might you have any further things i could troubleshoot? As i said, i haven't multi-metered the O2 feed. Is that a case of ignition on and seeing if there's 12v?

Gilbertd wrote:

But can Torque reset the adaptive values? That would reset the trims to base settings. A normal code reader can't, the only thing I know that can is a dedicated diagnostic tool such as a Nanocom, Lynx, Tesbook, etc.

No torque can't do that. Am i at the point where i go get it plugged in or might you have any further things i could troubleshoot? As i said, i haven't multi-metered the O2 feed. Is that a case of ignition on and seeing if there's 12v? Will i be able to check continuity from the sensor wiring to the ecm? I can run a long wire out from under the car to the engine bay so i can see what i'm doing. There are 4 wires on the sensors. i now know that blue and red/black are from the sensor, but what about the other 2 wires? If you could tell me where to look, i'll check the continuity and voltage tomorrow.

One more thing. I've tried to read up a bit. Does 0 voltage on an 02 sensor mean the engine is running lean (i.e too much oxygen) thus it tries to add more fuel to compensate? Is there a possibility of an air leak on bank 2 that's keeping the sensor constantly at 0 or should it move regardless?

I appreciate all the help i've be given so far. Thankyou!

Change the O2 sensors. Get genuine Bosch ones too, as aftermarket ones never work properly.

Whilst in theory they should run without the heaters, I've found that if the heaters don't work then the sensors only seem to get fully up to temp under decent engine load. At idle they don't keep the sensors hot enough to run properly.

The adaptive values will re trim themselves, if the system is working properly, but doing it with diagnostics is instantaneous.

Martyuk wrote:

Change the O2 sensors. Get genuine Bosch ones too, as aftermarket ones never work properly.

Whilst in theory they should run without the heaters, I've found that if the heaters don't work then the sensors only seem to get fully up to temp under decent engine load. At idle they don't keep the sensors hot enough to run properly.

The adaptive values will re trim themselves, if the system is working properly, but doing it with diagnostics is instantaneous.

i changed the 02. i took it off my other car which i know works. i've been on long runs taking kids to school and mrs to work. engine would be well and truly up to temperature.

blueplasticsoulman wrote:

You should be able to view the trims in Torque - What are they showing? Both banks and long and short term?

Already done. Read full topic for back story.

No you haven't. You've said if they are moving or not but not what the actual values are. I suspect your long term trim on bank 2 is going to be hard over to positive making it rich.

Yes, 0V is showing a lean mixture, i.e. too much oxygen in the exhaust. If that was down to an air leak in the intake you'd have a stupidly high idle and if it was down to an air leak in the exhaust before the lambda sensor, you'd hear it. Equally, if one cylinder on that bank isn't firing the air drawn in for that cylinder would go straight out of the exhaust and make it think it was lean even though the other 3 cylinders could be spot on. Then when it corrects by bunging more fuel in, the other 3 are running ridiculously rich but the sensor is still seeing too much oxygen making the ECU think it is still running lean.

You can check continuity to the sensors with a meter. There would be continuity from the blue and red/black wires you have already found at the ECU, there is also the white/orange wire which also goes to the ECU. The ignition switched 12V supply comes directly from fuse 26 (not 28 as I said earlier, I need better reading glasses) on a Brown/Pink wire. You have a matching set of wires to the LH sensor, a red/black, white/orange and brown/pink which all go to adjacent pins at the ECU, the only difference is that the LH sensor signal wire is orange rather than blue.

My apologies regarding fuel trims. I hadn't posted them as I didn't think they were necessary as it just showed me that bank 2 sensors wernt working.

STFT fluctuates between around -2% up to +2%
Bank 1 FT fluctuates about the same
Bank 2 shows nothing

Bank 1 O2 voltage ranges from 0.1-0.8
Banks 2 O2 doesn't move from 0.0