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Member
Joined: Jan 23 2017
Posts: 25

Hi All.

I decided to start this thread rather than continue this one, hope that's okay.

As in the title. Started and drove okay in the morning the other day. In the afternoon, though, she started once and died after a couple of seconds. Tried to start, crank, but no dice. Battery okay (had a battery delivery service come over -- was diagnosed as okay). Enough fuel in the tank per the gauge, but to be sure we put in an additional 10 liters.

Did some research and checked again this morning. "Check Engine" doesn't light up on ignition position 2. Nanocom has "Security mobilized" at "YES". I tried doing Security Learn, but still no dice (and Check Engine light still doesn't light up). On Nanocom, when trying to dive into anything in the BECM I get "Unable to start communications."

Any ideas on what else I could try? I initially was thinking fuel delivery problems based on research (I'm not well-versed at all in engine mechanics), but that was before I came across the engine ECU-BECM sync thing, which apparently I'm having (no Check Engine light). However, the car does crank -- when there's no sync, does the car crank but not start like mine, or is it supposed to not do anything at all when turning the key?

Anyhow, would appreciate any leads!

Cheers.

P.S. I've been away way too long from these boards but I do still have the car, and time away from here doesn't mean she's been trouble-free, quite the contrary!

Member
Joined: Apr 23 2019
Posts: 334

Fuel, air, spark...do you have any/all? Is MAF connected, what is the MAF reading (v)? Does the fuel rail hold pressure? What is the pressure ( if you have a gauge). Test the spark (cheap lighting up testers are available) on all cylinders.
If you've a nanocom now then what are the ECM input readings for air and fuel?

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 4032

No Check Engine would suggest it has lost sync but in that case a GEMS doesn't crank, it does nothing. Unable to Start Communications with the BeCM on a Nanocom usually means it is in alarmed state (on a pre-V36 BeCM), is the red alarm LED on top of the dash flashing? Although again, if in an alarmed state, it shouldn't crank it should give you the Engine Immobilised message on the dash. An odd one.

Member
Joined: Jan 23 2017
Posts: 25

Thanks for the replies. I was wondering that about lost sync -- whether the car would even crank.

I failed to mention that after the first failed start the other day, the Nanocom showed a multiple/random misfire fault for GEMS (stored faults I don't know from when...), which I cleared. I have a set of new spark plugs I can have put in to replace the present ones -- this was actually my first course of action for the day after no-start, but I couldn't find anyone I could conscript (I don't have tools and have never changed spark plugs, and quite frankly it would be easier and not expensive in these parts to find someone to do it).

Here are the Nanocom readings I was able to take note of from yesterday (a day after no-start):

Fuel flow rate: -0.100
Air flow rate: -0.836
Short term idle (steps): 0
Long term idle: 49
Closed throttle (V): 0.585

Bank 1-
Loop status (on:1): OPEN
Pre cat O2 Sensor (V): 5.09
Post cat O2 Sensor (V): 5.09
Fuel trim long term (%): -5.00
Fuel trim short term (%): 0.00

Bank 2-
Loop status (on:1): OPEN
Pre cat O2 Sensor (V): 5.09
Post cat O2 Sensor (V): 5.09
Fuel trim long term (%): -5.00
Fuel trim short term (%): 0.00

Adaptive FMFR (gm/s): -0.10
Fuel temperature (C): 38.68
Fuel level (V): 1.27
O2 configuration: 33
Pre Cat O2 Sensor Heater: 2.18
Post Cat O2 Sensor Heater: 0.00

Current throttle pos (V): 0.57
Stored throttle pos (V): 0.58
Adaptive air flow (kg/h): -0.83
Current air flow (kg/h): 0.00
Intake air temperature (C): 17
Air flow sensor (V): 0.23

Secondary air status (on/of: 4
Curr. run line position: 69
Long term adaptive Idle: 49
Short term adaptive Idle: 0
Idle speed reference (rpm): 63744
Idle air control valve (%): 148

Engine speed: 0
Gear box retard (%): 17.60
Calculated load value (%): 0.00
Gear box status (D/P): N/P

Coolant temperature (C): 34
Battery (V): 16.00
Road speed (mph): 0
Road speed (kph): 0
Air conditioning request: OFF
Front screen load: OFF

Ignition switch: ON
ABS (V): 0V
Security Learn: NO
Security mobilized: YES
Transfer box (V): 12V
Inj timing advance (deg): 20.00

Member
Joined: Jan 07 2016
Posts: 125

Battery 16v without it running? (Seems I have heard this is a Nano glitch, but that's high)
Could be a failed Crank position sensor.
Now that I think about it, I am not sure if this can be read on a Nano, I have never looked?
Check the wires and plug on the little bugger first.
These can just quit, but with the errors you have logged, it may have spluttered a bit before dying.
The CPS is the only spare part I carry with me everywhere. No workarounds.
Dumb question, with you being in the Philippines, but was it hot? You can possibly test this part by getting
it cold. Freeze spray, dry ice, or just plain ice ~May~ get it to work for a few minutes. This is not
a totally conclusive test however as you will get no result if it has finally died and failed open.

Member
Joined: Apr 23 2019
Posts: 334

My nano always reads 16 v from the ECM - not sure if its a nano error or a becm error, but can be ignored.

All that nanocom data is "engine off", so won't help much. TPS looks ok though. IACV looks off, but I think at engine off the IACV doesn't give reliable data, I'd need to check mine to see. If it cranks but doesn't fire then I'm thinking there is a fuel/ air / spark issue - please respond on those basic questions and check the engine harness plugs to sensors/ injectors etc are clean and secure. Has anyone messed with the HT leads recently?

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 4032

I think Bolt is closest in suggesting the CPS. They will fail when hot if they are going to fail. Often after a few minutes running and spraying with cold water will sometimes get them to work again for a few minutes. I also carry a spare as it is one of the few things that can stop the car dead in it's tracks. The lack of a Check Engine light may be a red herring, nobody actually looks at it to see if it comes on when they first turn the ignition on and a warning light that never comes on suggests there isn't a fault. As you have a Nanocom, you can use that to check all of the warning lights on the dash in case you have a blown bulb.

Member
Joined: Jan 23 2017
Posts: 25

Appreciate the replies.

Regarding Nanocom reading 16V -- I did read some time back that this is a bug somewhere that Nano always reports 16V for certain models of P38 -- mine has always read 16V, in good times and in bad. :-) Battery delivery guy measured 12.1V at rest if I recall right, and 10+ while cranking.

Season in these parts is approaching the coolest of the year, so not particularly hot, but that's of course relative... (If I were to hazard a guess I'd say 32ish ºC outside. Also, the car DID start when I first got on, then promptly died a few seconds later.

No unusual warnings on the message center, or warning lights (I've had SRS for a while now). I did want to try ensuring the bulbs were all okay but the function to light things up is in BECM, which my Nanocom was unable to connect to.

I have no access to a fuel pressure gauge at the moment, been asking around with no luck thus far.

No work in recent memory on HT wires or spark plugs, etc. Last work done on the car was 1st week of January when I replaced the high pressure brake hose from the accumulator to the brake master (previous hose burst while I was on the highway, thankfully in epic Manila crawling traffic, on a slight uphill section so I was able to gingerly inch my way with rapidly disappearing brakes from the innermost (island) lane to a gas station on the roadside 5 lanes to my right -- first tow-truck experience).

Member
Joined: Jan 07 2016
Posts: 125

The CPS is a sneaky little bugger. one second it's good, the next, it's not. Sometimes they will warn ya a bit first....
Fuel pressure is a schrader valve on the rail, so just use a tire pressure gauge.
These beasts do not usually just stop dead unless the CPS or the inertia switch fail, and I do not recall ever reading about the inertia switch suddenly failing.....Have you checked that? Fuel pressure, if present, will also rule that out.
Obviously, fuel supply is also a fuse and a relay. Easy to check, just swap relay with another of the same colour.
Speaking of relays, the other thing that will cause a sudden change of state from well running car to massive inert sculpture, is a bad under-bonnet fuse box. Give it a good look, and a sniff test...looking for burnt bits and smelling like toasted electrics. Pull each relay and look underneath for blackened plastic. The Fusebox is a wear item, and usually need replacing at about 15 years........There are several versions, and they are not interchangeable, so if you find this is the issue, compare the part numbers.

Member
Joined: Jan 23 2017
Posts: 25

I'll check fuel pressure with a tire gauge tomorrow when I go to work. As a matter of fact I haven't checked the inertia switch -- just came across it from your post and some googling earlier today. I'll check to reset it as well for just in case. I did check the relays, but will do so again, as well as Fuse 39.

Thanks for the tips!

Member
Joined: May 06 2018
Posts: 1

Hi Jerwin I might be able to recommend someone who can help you. I am also from the Philippines, I reside in Paranaque. PM me your cell phone number and I will contact you. Let me know how I can help. :)

Member
Joined: Jan 23 2017
Posts: 25

gucci88 wrote:

Hi Jerwin I might be able to recommend someone who can help you. I am also from the Philippines, I reside in Paranaque. PM me your cell phone number and I will contact you. Let me know how I can help. :)

Hey thanks for reaching out and for the offer! As an update, I had the car towed to a Rover specialist garage. Diagnosis is among the suggestions here and from general Internet wisdom: fuel pump. The car's been at the shop for over a week, they would just have started on it by now (shop said they were super busy).

Aside from never having encountered anything similar before, what threw me off was the absence of the CHECK ENGINE light at ignition position 2. Well, as also suggested above, it looks like of all the bulbs that could go bad on the cluster, it seems it's the check engine one. On the Nanocom when trying to test for warning lights on cluster everything works except for MIL.

If anything interesting comes up, I'll update this thread.

@ gucci88 I'll PM you just the same!