Evening all,

(I did try a forum search first, but didn't find anything in the first couple of pages of results).

My car (2000 4.0L 'base spec) came to me with an aftermarket stereo - a Sony radio/ CD player. However while it plays OK in the front doors, there's no sound in the back.

In my internet wanderings about P38s I thought I'd seen something about the radio install not being as straightforward as unplugging one and swapping in another, but I can't find anything which outlines the basic issues or any options.

Can anyone point me in the direction of this sort of info?

(It probably isn't the most important thing I should be thinking about - but you've got to start somewhere!)

Ta

Donald

I think it depends on the spec of what is already fitted. If you have the basic setup with no factory fitted amplifiers then I believe you can plug straight in. If you have factory fitted amplifiers (which I believe the majority were ordered with) then you need an adapter to go between the head unit speaker outputs and the vehicle loom. You can spend a bit of money on a ready made on in a neat little plastic box (which I have to admit I did) or make one yourself.
Others will no doubt be along shortly to guide you on this.

If you have the low line system, you'll have 6.5" woofers in all 4 doors with tweeters in the front. Tweeters have a capacitor on the back of them to block the low frequencies and are connected in parallel with the woofers. In this case the plug on the loom will be a standard DIN 8 way plug that will plug straight into the speaker socket on a standard head unit. The mid line system has the same as the low line system but adds midrange speakers in each door, still in parallel with the woofers and again has the 8 way plug. The High line system adds the steering wheel controls, amps in each door (so attenuators are needed to drop the speaker level output from a standard head unit down to a level suitable for the amps) and the sub in the LH side of the boot. The amps incorporate a crossover network so feed the woofer from one output and the midrange and tweeter from the other. The high line has a 10 way plug on the loom as it has the sub output as well as the 4 speaker outputs so won't fit into a standard head unit (which normally use separate phono sockets for a sub output).

So, if you have the low or mid line system, you can plug the speaker plug into a standard head unit and it will work fine (which is what I have). Originally my car only had the Low line install but I changed the door panels for ones with the midrange speakers so upgraded it to the mid line install. Unless whoever installed yours has been playing with the wiring, which they shouldn't need to do, then all 4 channels should work fine. However, the woofers do have a habit of seizing meaning they can't move so even if it has been wired correctly, you'll get no noise. In which case, see the upgrades thread and get yourself a pair of JBL Stage 600CE speakers for the front and put the existing front ones in the rear.

Thanks very much guys. After posting the first message I had a further google and became quickly more confused (and discouraged..). However what's here is more straightforward.

I never thought to mention the lack of steering wheel controls and, as far as I can tell, no mid-range speakers in the door cards. Which does suggest a 'low line' system. I'm completely fine with that to be honest, especially if it makes installing or working on it more straightforward.

So, the back door speakers not working could be:
something wrong with the installation (haven't had a look yet - Defender still hogging the garage)
the speakers themselves being broken
or, a break in the loom somewhere between the radio and the rear speakers.

This gives me a good steer for when I get a chance to look at this.

Ta

Mid range speakers are pretty obvious, as they have their own cloth covered grille above the grille for the woofers. Speaker feeds also go via a multiway connector behind the LH kick panel although it would be a bit of a coincidence if only the feeds to the rear speakers had gone green and hairy and neither of the feeds to the fronts.

Gilbertd wrote:

Mid range speakers are pretty obvious, as they have their own cloth covered grille above the grille for the woofers. Speaker feeds also go via a multiway connector behind the LH kick panel although it would be a bit of a coincidence if only the feeds to the rear speakers had gone green and hairy and neither of the feeds to the fronts.

Updating this as I now have a little more info.
It is a mid range install - I just hadn't noticed the additional speaker cover.

I was able to have a look at the install yesterday, as I was pulling out the HEVAC controller anyway. It's a pretty basic Sony unit that's in there - no sub outlets or anything - just the aerial coax, and the ISO plug link from the unit to the car wiring. I couldn't see anything wrong with that at all.

So - when you say the LH kick panel - is that the one I'd have removed to get access to the HEVAC screws? Or is it something on the other side of the footwell? i.e. adjacent to the door/wing?

Once I get my window switch panel back I suspect I might be having to go into the doors anyway to check out the mechanisms, so that would be a good opportunity to investigate the speakers.

Ta.

Panel where the bonnet release is. Both sides have speaker wires running through them afaik.
White multiplug but be careful as you may need to strip and solder them as they corrode.

Thanks for the reply!

I figured this out kind of by default. I had the panels either side of the centre console out, to remove the HEVAC controller - no wires under there. Then I took the LH kick panel out while I was working on the heater blower and found a few bits of the loom.

Without disturbing things at all, everything looks pretty good in there. Nothing that would make me think there was any corrosion or the like.

Which does point more towards the 2nd row speakers. I'll need to take the RH driver's side off shortly to see if I can figure out why the window isn't working - and that will be a good opportunity to check out the speakers too.

Can you take a picture of the connectors at the head unit? The connectors on the post '99 are different to pre- '99. pre '99 had a 10 way pink connector, which has the 4 door connections and the sub wires aswell. Post '99 they changed it so there's an 8 way ISO connector for the doors, and then there is a separate set of mini-ISO connectors which the CD changer plugs into the factory head unit with AND the subwoofer output is fed from here too.

If it's a mid/high line spec vehicle then I would expect there to be 8 wires coming out of the main ISO connector - 2 for each door, and more than likely have amps in each of the doors. The premium (DSP) system only had 4 wires coming out of the main ISO connector as a left/right feed, which was then split to the correct doors by the DSP amp, but this was pretty much only on the vehicles with factory navigation.

The easiest way to identify what system you have would be to pop a door card off and get a picture or 2 of what's in there and also a picture of the connectors at the radio.

Marty

Gilbertd wrote:

If you have the low line system, you'll have 6.5" woofers in all 4 doors with tweeters in the front. Tweeters have a capacitor on the back of them to block the low frequencies and are connected in parallel with the woofers. In this case the plug on the loom will be a standard DIN 8 way plug that will plug straight into the speaker socket on a standard head unit. The mid line system has the same as the low line system but adds midrange speakers in each door, still in parallel with the woofers and again has the 8 way plug. The High line system adds the steering wheel controls, amps in each door (so attenuators are needed to drop the speaker level output from a standard head unit down to a level suitable for the amps) and the sub in the LH side of the boot. The amps incorporate a crossover network so feed the woofer from one output and the midrange and tweeter from the other. The high line has a 10 way plug on the loom as it has the sub output as well as the 4 speaker outputs so won't fit into a standard head unit (which normally use separate phono sockets for a sub output).

So, if you have the low or mid line system, you can plug the speaker plug into a standard head unit and it will work fine (which is what I have). Originally my car only had the Low line install but I changed the door panels for ones with the midrange speakers so upgraded it to the mid line install. Unless whoever installed yours has been playing with the wiring, which they shouldn't need to do, then all 4 channels should work fine. However, the woofers do have a habit of seizing meaning they can't move so even if it has been wired correctly, you'll get no noise. In which case, see the upgrades thread and get yourself a pair of JBL Stage 600CE speakers for the front and put the existing front ones in the rear.

Hi there, this comment has helped me massively, can I ask you three more questions:

I have the low/mid line setup, no amps on any of the doors.

Currently my Sony head unit is plugging in fine, the front speaker outputs seem to be powering all 4 doors though (front and back). Is there a way of correcting this as my head unit has 55W per channel if I can make use of all 4 channels (front left / right, rear left/right), this would help as I’m planning to upgrade all the speakers in the doors. Alternatively, I was thinking I could adapt my iso adapter to bridge those outputs from the head unit so that 110w of rms is coming out of each of the channels, to compensate what arrives to the speakers?

Second question - do you know of any powerful mid range speakers to replace the factory fitted ones?

Third question - it would be ideal if I could somehow just get a feed direct from my new head units and then be able to fit my own crossovers in the doors as it suits me. Currently the cables coming out the doors are already specifically low / mid / high, is there a way of getting just normal full range to the door? I don’t know where in the car the cable is being split into 3 and crossed over, do you? If I knew that then I could rewire at that point rather than have to run new cable

If your Sony unit uses standard DIN connections, you should have two plugs, both 8 way, with one supplying the power connections while the other has the 4 outputs (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connectors_for_car_audio#/media/File:ISO_10487_connector_pinout.svg). This means that each of the 4 channels is separate and output level on each is dictated by the balance and fade controls on the head unit. The same 4 channels are fed to each door where, on a low or mid line install, they arrive at the door as a single pair and split inside the door to feed the 3 speakers in the front doors (and the 2 in the rears). No crossovers on these systems but easy enough to install passive crossovers inside the doors.

Can't help with replacement mid range speakers without knowing what size they are but you should be able to find something. The JBL speakers I fitted in mine are obsolete but have been replaced with the Stage 604C which come with a crossover anyway, see https://www.amazon.co.uk/JBL-STAGE2604C-2-Way-Component-System/dp/B07QH6BXPY/