rangerovers.pub
The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse.
Member
Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 1059

Quick question for those that have been in the bottom of an engine more than I have...

Been slowly stripping the bits out of this engine block that I have here, and now getting the main bearing caps off. I've just got the rear one to go in the morning.

I've taken a few pics of the crank, what's people's opinion regarding condition? It doesn't feel scored anywhere, so I'm hoping it will be OK to re-install when the block comes back, just with putting a new set of bearings in it...

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Marty

Member
Joined: Jan 06 2016
Posts: 2312

I'd clean it and mic the journals.<br>
Depends on whether it's a "keeper" motor or one that's going into one of your refresh and sells. <br>
Assuming journals within tolerance: if a seller then new shells and away you go. If a keeper, get it checked for straightness and the journals polished as well. <br>
Doesn't look bad though (apart from the strange parallel lines on rh journal last pic- light reflections?), what were the shells like?... <br>
<br>
Crankshaft
Main journal diameter 63.487 to 63.500 mm ........................ 2.499 to 2.52 in <br>
Minimum regrind diameter 62.979 to 62.992 mm ................... 2.509 to 2.510 in <br>
Maximum out of round 0.040 mm ...................... 0.002 in <br>
Big-end journal diameter 55.500 to 55.513 mm ...................... 2.20 to 2.22 in <br>
Minimum regrind diameter 54.992 to 55.005 mm ................... 2.16 to 2.165 in <br>
Maximum out of round 0.040 mm ...................... 0.002 in <br>
End-float 0.10 to 0.20 mm .................................. 0.004 to 0.008 in <br>
Maximum run-out 0.08 mm ............................ 0.003 in <br>

Member
Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 1059

It's the crank out of the original engine from the '98 that I've got for restoration/selling.

The parallel lines in the last pic are a light reflection, yes - it's from the strip of high power LEDs I've got up on the ceiling in the garage.

I need to finish getting the rear main cap out this morning and then I can lift the crank out and give it a proper clean and check over. Will get a set of Vernier gauges (I've been after a good reason to get some for a long time!) and measure the journals and see what it says. I'll get some pictures of the bearing sets when I get them out too..

Member
Joined: Jan 06 2016
Posts: 2312

Beware the cheapy digital verniers. They don't have the resolution or (as important) the repeatability to do the job properly. <br>
I still use good old fashioned screw micrometers for this kind of stuff- they've got the element of "feel" that you don't get with calipers. <br>
For a quick rebuild you should get close enough to check for ovality and wear limits with a lowish cost vernier though.

Member
Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 1059

I've had a bit of a look and £8 for a set of verniers sound a bit too cheap for me... I'm thinking a screw micrometer will be a bit more precise in the long run!

Got the crank out, and the bearings... Bearings are toast for sure, but luckily the journal housings are looking OK in the block. Need to clean the crank up and check what it's like - but from when I was looking yesterday, there wasn't any scoring on the crank, unlike the bearings...

Some pictures:

About to call a couple of places about top hat liner quotes for the block... will see what they say...

Member
Joined: Jan 06 2016
Posts: 2312

Hard to tell from the pics Marty, but some of those shells look like there might be some re-deposition of bearing material indicating localised overheating (oil cavitation, short term lack of lube or similar). <br>
Definitely means that the engine oilways will need a thorough clean. <br>
How was the engine running when you got the car? (is this the one that was running when we were all up at your place recently?). Did you get a chance to compression/ pressure test it before stripping? Just wondering because for a resale car I'm not sure that you'll get the cost of top-hat liners back when you sell it on. <br>
If liners and bores are OK you should get away with a hone and re-ring

Member
Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 1059

This is from a different engine block altogether - long story short....

Bought the 2 RR's - one's GEMS, one's Thor.. Both of my blue ones...
Awhile later got some other parts off the guy I bought the RR's from in the first place, and that included a pretty much complete GEMS engine, block, crank, extra pistons, front cover, heads, lower inlet manifold etc...

This block I got after the vehicle is the original engine block from the R Reg, '98 - but it has 2 damaged liners in the top of it., which is why the engine was changed. Apparently there are overheating issues and things like that with the engine that's in it (it's the one we pushed into the workshop as it's either locked out or out of sync etc... not the green one - that's gone to my mate).

So, being as it's the original engine and I'm pretty much doing a full restore on both of the ones I own, I figured I'd get this block top hatted, rebuild the engine up and then transplant it back into the vehicle, so I could then sell it with original, overhauled engine. I know I wouldn't normally get back the price of top hatting it, but I am aiming to sell these vehicles (when restored) for somewhere between £7-£8K, listed as 'restored' with all the normal niggle P38 issues fixed/upgraded etc.

I know I am limiting myself to a pretty slim market at those kind of prices - but I'm wanting them to be as close to perfect as possible - without stripping the whole thing back to the chassis and starting again. And I believe (there are dealers on eBay selling low mileage P38's for more!) that if I do it right, rather than just chuck a few bits in a flip them, that I can get a decent figure for them... So top hatting the block is probably the first step in making them appealing, and as the liners are already shagged in the block, it's really the only way of making it useful again.

I am pretty sure that it will get a bath of something when it goes to be machined, so all the oil and water ways will get cleaned out of crud, or any debris in them. New oil pump gears in the front cover were going to be on the list anyway. I'll get the crank polished/reground if I need to - but hence why I wanted other opinions aswell as if it's OK, I don't want to do lots of unneccesary work to it either!

New piston rings are also on the list to do on rebuilding, with fresh bearings aswell obviously!!

Member
Joined: Jan 06 2016
Posts: 2312

If you're going for near perfect, why not drop the short engine into Turners for remanufacture? <br>
http://turner-engineering.co.uk/html/V8enginesreman.html <br>
You'll get a 3 year warranty on the block, which would be a major selling point.

Member
Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 1059

Mostly because I'm happy enough doing the rebuild work myself, it's just the machining work that I can't do for obvious reasons. £900ish for machine work, vs £2245 plus VAT for a short engine is a LOT of money - which I don't have spare at the moment! It's also about 2/3 of my entire 'estimated' budget that I'm willing to spend on doing it up... I still want to make a bit of money out of it and feel like it's been worth my time!

Member
Joined: Jan 06 2016
Posts: 2312

I know what you mean <br>
Last time I built a blueprinted V8 (Triumph not Rover), about 4 years ago, the machining cost somewhere around £800 and the parts around £1400. It's painfully expensive, even at trade prices.