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Hi Simon,

Thanks for the advice - I see about 183 in the map at the low end/idle area, with the 2.1mm nozzles.
I've just looked at the spec on the Hana 1 stripe nozzles, and they are actually 2.4mm - is that close enough, or should I run a 2.5mm drill through them? I could even just remove the nozzles if 3mm wouldn't be too big on a P38? I'll have a look at it over the weekend, and maybe try to whip the manifold off again and either remove the ones in there, or swap them for the one stripe as-is or drilled out and then recalibrate again.

Interesting on the ODB side of things too - I wasn't sure how much difference it would make, and how good the adaptivity is on them - but if it's not great, then I probably won't bother. The later Bosch P38's like I have are OBD II compliant on the engine ECU, so I think that it should connect ok - but if I do go that route, I will probably go as you mention and get a King ECU and just wire that part in.

On my Zavoli ECU - I have the options of PAN EVO, Zavoli, Zavoli 2 (which the instructions say never to use?!?) and Matrix - I think you mentioned awhile ago that the Matrix setting would be the best given the options that I have... I'm intrigued as to what Zavoli 2 is now...

Might look into getting a King ECU at some point...

Cheers,
Marty

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No probs Marty.

Yeh I thought the figures you mentioned seemed to point to bigger than 2.1 nozzles. Hanas without nozzles flow a little bit more than Hanas with 3mm nozzles, I think you'd be good with 3mm or no nozzles if you can turn pressure down a bit (1.2). Or you'd be OK with current nozzles if you could turn pressure up to 1.7 bar..

Yes the late spec P38 / Disco Bosch ECUs are more OBD2 compatible and show trims correctly (as you'll know maybe better than me) so an LPG ECU's OBD facility should read trims properly on that, but still I wouldn't advise connecting. There are pros and cons to connecting to OBD and I reckon the cons outweigh the pros on most vehicles - I hardly ever connect OBD.

Matrix setting will be best for Hana's, but the map figures with Hanas are pretty much a straight percentage so 180's in the screen represent a multiplier of 1.8 which points to too small combination of nozzles / pressure.

The problems with low resistance Hanas with AEB would apply to the King ECU too. The King may have an option for Hanas but still the AEB ECUs can have problems driving them consistently at low pulse duration, but low pulse duration isn't seen on a P38 so this won't be an issue. The reliability of AEB with Hana's isn't a big deal, among those of us with enough experience to attribute ECU failures to low resistance injectors the rate of failure noted has been very small.

Over the years Zavoli have used various types of injectors - Matix wearing Zavoli stickers, Zavoli pan type and a couple of types that are of a similar design to Valtek type 30's. I have all types here that I've removed from vehicles in the past but out of those wouldn't consider using anything other than Matrix and perhaps pan as part of any install or repair. Pan were probably the best Zavoli own brand injectors, Matrix best out of the lot, the other types would probably rate poorly to most modern injectors and the firmware settings for them would be a bad match for Hanas.

Simon

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Hi Simon,

Interesting reading... I'll discard the OBD idea then... to be honest, it's not connected on the current system (as it doesn't support it) and I haven't missed it at all.

How do you go about adjusting the pressure on the Zavoli Zeta reducers? There's what looks like a hex grub screw in the back/centre of the reducer, which would be my guess - I have looked in the Zavoli manuals I have, and it's not clear/marked - all it mentions in the setup is to read the pressure from the sensor, and put that into the setup so it will calibrate at the correct pressure.

I have also noticed in the setup screen of the software where the pressure is input that it says in the little popup 1.1-1.4 as the range.. will it accept me putting a higher pressure (like 1.7bar) in or reject it because it's outside of what it's expecting?

I'll run a 2.5mm bit through the single strip nozzles I have and swap them over when it's not too windy (blowing a gale here at the moment) and re-run the calibration with the bigger nozzles at the current 1.4 bar pressure, and see what the result is...

I'll leave the ECU setting on Matrix for the moment, and then keep my eyes peeled for a King ECU at some point...

Marty

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Well, first oil change done this weekend - thanks to Sloth for coming up and giving a hand... also did the diff oils, and greased the prop shaft UJ's..

Fitted in an oil change on Sloth's P38 aswell, so a good day of routine maintenance..

So with the good bit done, I'm now back to having LPG issues... this time with the ECU! I had the same symptom that OB had, dash switch didn't light up on one random occasion, and put it down to a gremlin (well, that's what I told myself whilst still quietly waiting for it to happen again, as I don't believe things like that are just random occasions!) and sure enough it did it again when I was out last week. The strange thing being that it then also wouldn't start on petrol?!?

Fortunately I managed to get it to do it again when I was at home, so I grabbed the multimeter and went probing - thinking that maybe I had disturbed a wire when I was doing the re-install, and that the fact it wouldn't start on petrol aswell would point towards the ignition switched wire, thus not giving power to the petrol injectors...

Hooked nanocom up, and figured that if it was that wire, then I wouldn't be able to communicate with engine ECU, as it's switched feed is spliced off that wire aswell, but connected to engine ECU, no trouble.

Checked battery +ve and switched +ve at LPG ECU, and both present and accounted for. Checked 5V out from ECU, and nothing. Gotcha....

Took ECU into garage and pulled it apart - massive heat patch on the board emanating from the 5V regulator, and the bigger electrolytic caps were bulging... figured that was my problem, so swapped the caps for a couple which I had that were close in value (and ordered correct values to replace with when they arrived) and put a new 5V reg in.. checked 5V output on the bench and it was there, but now pulsing from 5V-0V... metered the 12V feed into the reg, and it was dropping out aswell - was going from about 11.8V to 1V and then coming back up again. Strange... It was getting late and had to go up to the workshop the next day (saturday for oil change and servicing) so figured sod it - and wired the 12V to the new reg direct from one of the live 12V inputs (which is what it normally is - through a couple of resistors, diode, transistor etc) and had a solid 5V there afterwards - switch lit up in the vehicle when powered up, happy days.

Up at the workshop - went to start, and nothing on dash switch again, and wouldn't fire on petrol. Pulled 12V live fuse to LPG ECU and it started on petrol... and that's how it is now...

So I'm pretty sure that this ECU is pretty well poked - I will try and repair it/replace the caps and get to the bottom of the issue - but I am also looking at just buying a new ECU, as this one is ~8/9yrs old. My question is... do I buy a King one, and then just plug it in, config it, swap my LPG nozzles over for the bigger ones and calibrate it? Or do I use this as an opportunity to swap to a different brand ECU which is better at running the low impedance Hana injectors (though the King one has Hana parameters - I know from what Simon mentions about them not being the best for the ECU), or go with the AEB system, which will just plug straight in with no other modifications needed?

Also, is it worth me doing a 'mod' on a new King ECU (if I go that route) to maybe removing the factory fitted 5V regulator, and fitting an external one, wired to the board, but bolted to the metal ECU case, as it obviously runs pretty hot, given how brown a large portion of the ECU PCB is on my old one...

Also, is it likely that the lowere impedance injectors are what has 'finished off' the old ECU? even though the issue is on the feed somewhere to the 5V regulator, and the MOSFETs (I presume that's what they are that drive the LPG injectors) look fine, no brown/heat related marks around any of them... and I would imagine they have a 12V feed to them anyway..

Thoughts?

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Swapping to a different brand ECU will involve a complete new loom and much rewiring whereas the King (or any other AEB ECU) will plug straight into what you already have. If the Hana injectors you've got are the Gold version (which I think they are) they are rated at 1.9 Ohms and the King ECU is specced for 2 or 3 Ohm injectors so I can't see it being a problem. You'll also have the advantage of knowing the AEB software rather than starting yet another learning curve.

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That's what I figured - though most of the other ECU's I've looked at seem to use the same pair of connectors to plug into their loom - so I'd stab at a guess that the pinouts are probably very similar, if not the same, so I could just tweak any of the pins which don't match, so I could reconfigure the current loom to work.

I am leaning towards the King ECU, as yes I have the Hana 2001 Gold injectors, which indeed are 1.9 ohm, that and I've already got the software installed on my laptop ;)