rangerovers.pub
The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse
Member
Joined:
Posts: 1240

Well, Thought I'd post a thread for a change with the progress and pictures of my engine rebuild... I'm sure i'll need help and advice along the way!

It all started when I was under it replacing the radius arms with a pair that I pressed new bushes into... and noticed a nice wet stain amongst the dried on mud and dirt... and the bad news is that it's definitely coming from core plugs...

So whilst a bit frustrated, as it means my plans for engine rebuilding are now having to be brought forward, and not being able to refurb the engine from my '00 to swap in, it is also a chance to do the full engine rebuild that I've been planning/hoping to do for the last few years!

So, I have currently ordered a new short engine from V8 developments - which is coming with a new top hat linered block, crank, pistons etc. also comes with front crank pulley and flywheel, all balanced and ready to go.

I've also managed to source a replacement front cover, lower inlet manifold and sump.
I had previously acquired some parts a few years ago, so already have new oil pump gears, Piper Torquemax cam, sprockets and timing chain and come other general bits and pieces including second hand set of heads and rocker covers.

I'm currently in the process of ordering all the other bits I need and sundry items, bolts, gaskets etc.
I have also been starting to clean other parts ready for assembly.

Oil pump gear cover

Front Cover 1

Front Cover 2

Front Cover 3

Front Cover 4

Front Cover 5

Front Cover 6

I picked up the heads from the engineering shop today aswell.. feel a bit like I've paid over the odds for them to be done - but they did have to clean them, relap all the valves, skim them, and pressure test them. Next time, I'll look at doing the cleaning and valve lapping myself to save on labour cost!

They look good though - the only worry I have is that there is some pitting in the face of one of the heads. The machine shop didn't mention anything about it, and they do a lot of Rover V8 heads, and work building engines themselves. So my thought process is that if they haven't mentioned it, then there is probably nothing to worry about... especially as it's in the fairly meaty part of the head, and when there's a gasket squished in there. I am also planning of fitting ARP head studs, rather than just bolts.

Heads 1

Heads 2

Heads 3

Heads 4

I'm now heading away for work for a couple of weeks, so left the front cover soaking in a bucket of what was warm water, and cleaning solution, so hopefully will help break up the rest of the baked on gunge that's in there.

When I get back home, the next installment will commence... cleaning the lower inlet manifold, drilling and tapping it for LPG, and probably painting the rocker covers and the upper inlet manifold.

More to post as and when I get some more done!

Marty

Member
Joined:
Posts: 2197

Best of luck Marty :)
I don't know what to make of that pitting either, the Rover heads seem to have a huge gasket area compared to the only other ones I've played with.

Member
Joined:
Posts: 2312

Time to get the dishwasher fired up to shift the last of the crud. I think you should have dropped the bits over to Morat so he could give them his trademark polish :-)
What cleaning solution have you left the bits soaking in? I use good old diesel on ally stuff as I'm not sure about prolonged exposure to the "eco-friendly" water soluble cleaners.
Those pits should be OK as long as they don't bridge the fire ring of the gasket. They look more like FOD than inclusions in the casting. Don't see how though?
Have a good work break...

Member
Joined:
Posts: 2197

A bit of degreaser and some dremel work would have those bits nice and shiny, for sure :)

Member
Joined:
Posts: 2312

You can't beat a brass brush on a Dremel!

Morat wrote:

A bit of degreaser and some dremel work would have those bits nice and shiny, for sure :)

Member
Joined:
Posts: 647

You are ahead of me Marty, as I'm still at the point of taking the 46D block apart. To have the tophats done I plan to ship it to V8 Developements, I just need to know how they want the block delivered, with or without top dowelpins, crankshaft etc.

What I want them to do is basically the liners and cambearings, the rest I (think) I can manage myself, also for financial reasons. But you are on the go, make a good job out of it!

Member
avatar
Joined:
Posts: 6228

Marty, I'd have asked them to skim the heads while they were off just so you can be sure you have a nice smooth surface that you can guarantee is perfectly flat too. I know my local engine machining man groans whenever anyone walks in with LR V8 heads as they have to be fitted on the machine at an angle. Most heads have a parallel top and bottom face so are easy to bolt down whereas ours have to have an adapter fitted to hold them at the correct angle for skimming. I've watched him do it and it takes longer to get the heads bolted down at the correct angle than it odes to do the actual skim.

Tony, if all they are doing is the liners and cam bearings, you best bet would be to strip the engine block completely. If you leave the crankshaft and dowels in place it's more work for them to remove and refit them. In saying that, if you intend using your original pistons (with new rings presumably), it might be better if it goes to them with the pistons so they can bore each liner to suit the piston. It might be worth asking them to replace the core plugs too while they have it, then you'll have virtually a brand new block to start with.

Member
Joined:
Posts: 2197

What's that funny bump outboard of the spark plug? I've no idea what it's for...

Member
Joined:
Posts: 2312

At a guess, the semi circular and circular lumps are there to affect the "swirl" of gases inside the combustion chamber.
That'd be my technical guess, but more likely the semi-circular bit just supports/ covers the thread at the end of the spark plug :-)

Morat wrote:

What's that funny bump outboard of the spark plug? I've no idea what it's for...

Member
Joined:
Posts: 1240

Gilbertd wrote:

Marty, I'd have asked them to skim the heads while they were off just so you can be sure you have a nice smooth surface that you can guarantee is perfectly flat too. I know my local engine machining man groans whenever anyone walks in with LR V8 heads as they have to be fitted on the machine at an angle. Most heads have a parallel top and bottom face so are easy to bolt down whereas ours have to have an adapter fitted to hold them at the correct angle for skimming. I've watched him do it and it takes longer to get the heads bolted down at the correct angle than it odes to do the actual skim.

Tony, if all they are doing is the liners and cam bearings, you best bet would be to strip the engine block completely. If you leave the crankshaft and dowels in place it's more work for them to remove and refit them. In saying that, if you intend using your original pistons (with new rings presumably), it might be better if it goes to them with the pistons so they can bore each liner to suit the piston. It might be worth asking them to replace the core plugs too while they have it, then you'll have virtually a brand new block to start with.

The heads were skimmed... I am guessing that they didn't skim them further as it would have put them out of spec... As I mention, they came highly recommended and have built up their own Rover V8 engines for racing and all sorts from what I gather - so I am guessing that if they were happy with them, then it must be OK... they've been pressure tested after they were skimmed, so it obviously isn't affecting the actual top of the cylinder where the valves are - so fingers crossed it's OK when it's bolted into the engine!

OB - the washer solution that I've got the front cover (well the bottom of it anyway) in is just the Clarke stuff from Machine Mart. I bought it when I got the washer for doing the door latch parts. Again, talking with the guys at the engineering shop, they were saying soaking in diesel is a good way of cleaning parts, and a wire brush in a drill/dremel to get into the nooks and crannies.

So, depending on what the front cover comes out looking like when I get home (assuming it hasn't been dissolved away by the eco friendly washing solution) then I might have to get a can of diesel and a tub to put it in and then dunk it in. I'm tempted to do that for the rocker covers, as they look pretty horrific aswell - inside and out...

Then it will be a case of finding a nice paint to color them all with... I'm toying with the idea of painting the sump, front cover, and rocker covers - but haven't decided what would look nice... do I go black to match everything else, or a nice metallic bronze? Or AA yellow to match my brake calipers... not that you can see the calipers under the brake dust and mud...

Now safely out in Amsterdam for work tomorrow morning... here until the 14th, and then off to Cannes for a few days for some more exhibition magic... then back home, and I can hopefully get properly stuck into ordering engine parts, bolt and gasket sets, and an engine stand to mount the new short engine to when it arrives...

I still have a couple of decisions to make... the most important being - do I get the new engine delivered to home, or to the workshop... in some ways working on it at home would be easier, but then I'd have to lift it somehow into the car, when it's nearly assembled... whereas at the workshop, I'll have the crane already there and I can hoist it off the palette, straight onto the engine stand. The down side to that, is I have to head up to the workshop, whenever I want to work on the engine - which requires more planning regarding parts etc - and also more miles on the current leaky engine...

Thoughts?

Ferryman - my original plan was to get the old engine out of my '00 restoration P38 and then strip it and send the block off to be relinered, and then rebuild it myself from scratch. The problem is, that I was planning on doing that a bit further down the line as I have the old engine from the '98 in the garage which is first in line to be relinered... everything kinda got put on hold when I saw the leaky plugs on mine - as without mine on the road and running, I can't get to the others to work on them - so it's my priority, and it worked out easier in the long run to get a short engine and go from there. The good thing will be that as mine comes apart, I can then systematically recondition the parts that aren't going back as part of the core to V8 Developments, to have them ready to fit to a relinered block for the '00 at some point.... there is a plan there... somewhere... honest...

Marty

Member
Joined:
Posts: 2312

I still have a couple of decisions to make... the most important being - do I get the new engine delivered to home, or to the workshop... in some ways working on it at home would be easier, but then I'd have to lift it somehow into the car, when it's nearly assembled... whereas at the workshop, I'll have the crane already there and I can hoist it off the palette, straight onto the engine stand. The down side to that, is I have to head up to the workshop, whenever I want to work on the engine - which requires more planning regarding parts etc - and also more miles on the current leaky engine..

I don't know what sort of access you have to your home workshop ( paved access from road to workshop?), but if you have a good strong engine stand with castors and can manoeuvre your engine crane around in there, I'd go for building it at home.
Good lighting and operating theatre cleanliness are a great help, although you can do the job anywhere.
You can hire a small box trailer to move the nearly built engine from home to workshop. All you have to do is shuttle your engine crane and stand between the two.

Member
Joined:
Posts: 2197

Having seen both areas I'd say build at home with an engine stand. Of course, you'll need to do a little erm "re-organisation" :)

Member
avatar
Joined:
Posts: 6228

As I discovered when I needed to take/collect my engine to V8 Developments, it will go in the boot of a P38 no problem. You need short straps from the engine crane to the engine and, with the lower tailgate down get the engine dangling above the boot. The problem then is that the boom on the crane isn't long enough to get the engine in the boot proper as it is against the lower tailgate but if you then slowly lift the lower tailgate and as you do that push the engine crane further forward, you can lower the engine into the boot.

Member
Joined:
Posts: 2197

I once drove home from Glasgow with a BMW straight six in the back of a mk4 Golf. It coped really well but the nasty crumpling metal noise which came from the boot floor as the engine went in would make me think twice about doing it again!

Member
Joined:
Posts: 1294

If you've got the plastic boot liner, it will slide nicely over the carpet, I've had mine in rangie and a ford puma, lol, that was a squeeze, as Richards says, keep the straps short and engine hoist will get it in no problem, as for moving afterwards, that's a different story,, heavy bugger,,

Member
Joined:
Posts: 796

I drove from my house to my mate's dad's workshop with the "new" engine for my P38 in the back of my work van. Arrogant as it might sound, I thought they were a shower of twats and didn't really mind that it chewed up the plastic loadbed protector quite a bit.

Member
Joined:
Posts: 1240

hmm...

I have one of the plastic 'Range Rover' loadspace trays at the workshop, so could fit that in the boot to put the engine on, and slide back into it... I would just have to make sure that the engine crane and the engine would fit in the back of the RR... as it would be somewhat counter-productive to have the engine crane at home, and find that I can't fit it in the RR with the engine, then it would make it interesting to get it back out again at the workshop!

I think I will go with building it up on an engine stand in the garage - and bring the engine crane home from the workshop to lift it off the pallet that it will no doubtedly arrive on, onto the engine stand (once I've bought it!)

And Morat, yes, that will mean I need to do a bit of a tidy up to make sure it all fits!!! It makes the most sense since I have most of the other engine parts starting to congregate in the garage already aswell!!

Member
Joined:
Posts: 2312

Sounds like a bit of a juggling act stuffing it all in the back of the RR. Sort of reminiscent of moving a 3 wheeled Disco around a car park on an engine crane :-)
A 6'x4' general purpose trailer is only about £18/ day to hire. You'd get the engine and the crane into that with much less risk to interior and your back!

Member
Joined:
Posts: 2197

When are you thinking of getting started? If you like, we could schedule the dash-out work on mine for a Saturday and I could give you a hand lugging stuff around on the Sunday morning before heading home? Two boots would be better than one....

Member
avatar
Joined:
Posts: 1196

I had my fully dressed replacement engine for my old car in the back of it :) That came sat on an old tyre on top of a pallet too... mind you, I did have it lifted straight in by a forklift at work where I had it delivered. Lifted it out with an engine crane at the other end after detaching it from the pallet.

It's the getting it in/out of the car that is the biggest problem I think. Not sure you'd fit that in along with an engine. Could always lend a hand - take engine in one, crane in another.