Hi all, hope you’re well.

• The car.
  1997 4.6 HSE 100k miles, aftermarket head unit pioneer, HK sound system, aftermarket amplifier interface to connect ISO to LandRover Pink 10 pin.

• The fault.
  No speakers are working on the right hand side of the car. They haven’t since purchased. LHS works fine as expected. HK tweeters, with door cars off and speakers out no HK mentioned on speaker labels, just landrover logo. 3 speakers in driver door, two in rear door.

• What’s been tried.
  New head unit, (originally thought this was the fault) the new one is tested as working.
  New amplifier interface to allow the subwoofer and additional audio devices to work. (Before had a cut iso connector to exclude two orange wires for the 10 pin pink).
  Trims taken apart, wires read resistance with a multimeter from the kick plate (by bonnet latch) to the door speakers, also resistance read from the kick plate to the head unit.
  Looked for an amplifier in the door, none found, then searched rear above CD changer, none found. (My understanding is early has 4X amps in doors, late has 1X in rear of car).

• Additional info.
  So all speakers work, they’ve been tested, wires all seem ok, no corrosion visible at any of the splice locations and the multimeter reads them fine.
  If I rotate the pink 10 pin 180deg, the sound still comes from the LHS despite the fact now the red/blue (RHS) speaker wires are being power sourced.

So is there an amplifier for the RHS somewhere I can’t find?? The white plug connector that splits from main harness to the front door/ rear doors also seems ok?
I’m going bloody crazy over what should’ve been a simple stereo head unit change. I think thats all the information I have. I’d attach a photo but haven’t worked out how to link a source thing yet.

Any help is hugely appreciated. I’m understanding of a cars radio system and speaker layout but this thing seems a different level! Theres like 30 wires going into the door! Things were seriously hefty before CANBUS.

Many thanks, Charlie

First off it sounds as though you have the Mid line system and not the High line with amps in the doors and someone has fitted the HK tweeters with the logo on the covers (but not the HK bass and midrange units) and CD changer. Although Mid line didn't have the amps in the doors (mounted low down at the front of the door) and the head unit was wired directly to the speakers, but it also didn't have the CD changer, sub-woofer and steering wheel controls. My '96 HSE Ascot has the amps in the doors, CD changer in the boot, sub, steering wheel controls, HK logos on the tweeter housings and also on the door cards above the grille for the bass speaker. So you either have a Mid line spec that has had the extra bits added or a High line that has had the door amps removed (although I would have thought you would notice bodgery in the wiring to the speakers) or you simply haven't found them.

As someone else has already been in there you've no way of knowing what has been done to it so your best bet is going to be to go back to basics. Test from head unit to speaker by connecting a 9V battery across it and listening for the thump (or try connecting temporarily from head unit output to speaker). If you do have amps but haven't found them, they need power on the Grey/Black wire to turn them on.

I believe it was only the Hi Line system that has the 10 pin connector at the back of the radio. If so, this system should have door amps and the sub-woofer amp. The additional two orange wires are the feed for the sub-woofer. The amps are only switched on when commanded via a grey/black wire from a separate 8 pin connector at the back of the radio. I would suspect that this grey/black wire to the right hand side of the vehicle may well be the problem. This grey/black wire feeds to a 6 pin connector behind the kick panel in the driver’s footwell and has two wires from it individually feeding the two door amps. As both doors speakers are not working I would presume that the problem is at this connector of between it and the radio - easy to check which it is with a multimeter.

Hello all again and thank you for your replies!

So I’ve read over what’s been said and investigated further. This has been found.

• LHS front door car removal has revealed the early door mounted amplifier, the item not found on the RHS.

• The grey where comment led me to this after no connection found between the kickplate loom plug and the door output plugs.

So RHS door has obviously been replaced with the low spec one at some point….
Now With this in mind, my options are (I’m assuming)

• Fit door amplifiers and new loom to suit the set up, if these looms are available?
• Run new wires from head unit to door speakers to feed standard voltage outputs as amplified by the head unit?

My question about running new wires however is, that grey/black wire needs to have a role im guessing ? Does that provide power on these HLine system door speakers via the door amp, therefore need to be tapped into ?

Many thanks,

Charlie

Yes, they look like the only two options but I wouldn’t mix left to right otherwise the balance from left to right will almost certainly be lost or any significant adjustment of it at the very least.

If the aftermarket interface loom does the necessary balancing to work with the door amps on the LHS without any buzzing etc then I would go for getting a couple of door amps and rewiring to the RHS doors accordingly. I assume the grey/black wire is still present in the driver footwell and this will need a couple of wires put in to switch the door amps on and wiring replicated at the HU end as has been done to switch the LHS amps on unless the aftermarket interface loom already does this. As I understand it the grey/black wire is not a power supply just the on/off signal from the head unit - power to the amps comes via the door outstation.

So further update!

Once again firstly thanks for the help it’s great!

So rear door amp RHS was there, thus meaning original door and wiring. Swapped this amp with one that’s known to work. This subsequently got the RHS rear to work as should.

So a new one of those is in order whilst the faulty one is going over to the electronics department at work. Maybe it’s an easy fix for the door amps. Will let you know.

As for the front I think you’re right and that will be the course of action. A new door amp to be installed and wired off the existing loom (including the grey/black) wire that’s inboard of the A pillar. A new loom for the door isn’t expensive either so may purchase one and try for a plug and play.

I’ll update and conclude this process with some nice detailing for anyone jumping on the thread in future also.

As per many thanks!

Yes, as Garvin says, the Grey/Black isn't the power supply, just a turn on signal for the amp which gets it's power from the door outstation. While doing away with the amps is an option, they incorporate a crossover so the signals to the bass speaker is split from the signals to the midrange and tweeter. So if doing away with them, then ideally you need to fit crossovers in their place.

Good news and, despite initially going bloody crazy, looks to be a fairly straightforward fix to get the ICE up and running properly. In your original post you referred to an”aftermarket amplifier interface” which seems to match the aftermarket HU to the HK amplifiers. May I enquire what the make/model of this interface unit is?

Yes for sure! Parts on order. While a lot of the interior is apart I’ll be doing the heater matrix in the meantime. Leaking really quite badly !

Of course, here’s the details.

So the Head Unit is a ‘Pioneer DEH-P6500R’

The amplifier interface is ‘InCar-Tec, Landrover-Range Rover II P38A 1994-2002 AMPLIFIER INTERFACE LEAD 10 PIN ISO PRE-AMP CABLE‘ found on eBay and their own website. It’s something someone can make on their own with some know how but I chose the easy option this time. I’m impressed in fairness with its quality. £55.00 at time of purchase.

Is it the matrix or just the O rings? O rings are dead easy despite what some would have you believe, but matrix involves taking the dash out so the heater box can be moved.

I’m not sure as of yet what it could be. I’m assuming O-Rings but it’s clear someone’s been behind the dash before, is there any obvious signs on these as to which is the cause?

A previous symptom of the fault was hot air only being vented on the Left side of the car, but this I’m under the assumption is blend motor failure. Only cool natural air would blow on the right.

What’s been noted of the leak so far is that it’s only seen on the right hand footwell, nothing on the left, but the attachment is on this side with the in-pipes so that makes sense. Thus making me think it’s the less labour intensive solution.

However I’m tempted to go for a new matrix, one aftermarket company has deleted the need for the RRover bung fit and put plastic pipe male-ends on the cap. Opinions on that as an idea?

Not 100% diagnosis but if the coolant is evident at the joint of the heater matrix flange and the collar around the coolant pipes - the joint where the o-rings are - then it’s most probably the o-rings. Get a mirror and a torch and inspect the joint, if the coolant is coming from the slight gap at the joint then it’s almost certainly the o-rings. If there is coolant on the matrix side of its flange then I would suspect the matrix and also the matrix if the joint is nice and dry.

Blowing cold on one side only is a blend motor/flap issue.

Yes, difference in temperature from side to side is a blend motor problem. If the O rings are done properly, using genuine LR O rings, they will last for about 15 years at least. Heaving on the pipes where they come through the bulkhead can cause them to start leaking though. If someone has already been in there then it may have been to replace them before and they either didn't align the pipes properly or overtightened them and cracked the matrix. In your position I'd get in there to have a look at exactly where the leak is coming from. If from the bottom of the matrix housing them it is a matrix problem but if from the O rings I'd replace them first and see if the leak is cured. For around £4 for the rings and a couple of hours work (if you've never done it before, half that on a second attempt), it's worth a go.

It has been found that the heater matrix from an Audi will fit with a little modification of the heater box to make it fit. I assume this is what is being offered as an alternative? This has stubs so you can put hoses directly onto that and do away with the O ring connection and alloy pipes. Personally I'm not a great fan of it unless you are going to use silicone hoses and constant tension clips. If using ordinary coolant hose and Jubilee clips they will start to leak with age and you are back where you started. There's also the problem of trying to fit the temperature sensor onto a non-metallic pipe.

Okay got it.

These vehicles are really quite logical despite peoples belief, think that’s my favourite thing about them!

So blend motor needs a fix, as does the leak. Like you say I think it’s best go with the O-rings, even if it’s not them that’s the problem, for a few quid and the hassle factor they’re worth a go!

I’ve seen the Audi mod and that’s not what I’ve got in mind. A company called ‘Nissans’ make the one I’m taking about. £35 and they’re the same dimensions just different end-cap/ fixings.

Now luckily the blend motor is the right in this instance, as I think these are accessible with via the instrument cluster ? I can see the thing, with only the local shrouds removed, therefore surely I can sneak it out and do a service ?? Suggestions on that??

Ps once again huge thanks, I seriously owe you all a beer, and happily will be held to it.

Agree entirely, they are very logical just different to what people expect and know, blend motors and a controller instead of bits of bent wire. Although in saying that, the same blend motors are used on a number of other cars (Peugeot 406 being one) but I suspect they get scrapped before they start to play up. Yes,the RHS temperature and distribution motors can be accessed through the hole where the instrument cluster lives although you will need a right angled screwdriver to get at one of the screws. The bracket that the instrument cluster attached to will try to dig chunks out of the back of your hand so I usually take that out too. Common failings are the feedback variable resistor wears out but it can sometimes be resurrected with a squirt of switch cleaner or the motor itself getting weak or not working at all. You can test the motor with a 9V battery but ensure you unplug the connection at the HEVAC or you will damage that. If you take the blend motor apart, note that two of the cogs have arrows on them which must be lined up when you put it back together.

+1 for removing the left hand instrument cluster bracket - very easy and makes life a lot easier.

The o-rings can be replaced without removing the infamous air duct but is very tricky unless you have small hands and has mostly to be done by feel. If you decide to cut and remove the duct to do the o-rings then access to the blend motor is also much facilitated.

Some advice:

DO NOT switch on the ignition without the instrument cluster connected - a whole new world of pain awaits down that path,
DO NOT ‘muller* the o-ring clamp screw head - drilling out a butchered screw will be ‘challenging’ to say the least. Use plenty of penetrating oil, let it soak properly and, very, very carefully, try to tighten the screw very slightly to just crack it before unscrewing it. Very long (min 12”) shank No2 cross head screwdriver required for this job.
DO NOT overtighten the clamp screw when refitting as you risk cracking the plastic heater matrix.
DO NOT as Richard has already said, externally power the blend motor with the HEVAC unit connected unless you like the sight and smell of the smoke of burning chips!

You do not have to drain the coolant via the main radiator when doing the o-rings. Just crack the clamp screw loose and collect, in a sutiable receptacle, the litre or so of coolant that will drain out before fully undoing the screw.

Another little tip. Screwdriver needs to be a number 2 Pozidrive, NOT Philips head. Dipping the tip in some grinding paste will reduce the chances of it riding out and damaging the head too.