My 4.6 Vogue failed the MoT Test today because the fog light telltale bulb has blown. Obviously, I'll be replacing everything in the instrument cluster with LEDs. Googling has revealed nothing because step-by-step instructions for instrument cluster removal seem to have disappeared from certain major sources. Baffling because they would be tiny, even with pics. Obv. I have 10 days to avoid a full re-test.

Can it be done without taking the whole dash out? I found a YouTube video for that but don't want to do it unnecessarily.

Planning to buy this set unless someone warns me otherwise:
https://embertonimperial.com/products/land-range-rover-p38-green-led-dash-dial-binnacle-instrument-bulbs-v8-diesel

You don't need a full dash out, just the centre console surround. Side panels off, screws either side of the radio (if you have the original radio, they are behind the fascia surround which just pulls off), drop the knee panel and remove the instrument cluster surround. That will show you the two screws on the right and one on the left and allow you to pull the whole surround forward. Switches can be unplugged and the switches pushed out from behind.

Tell tale for the rear fog light is Orange whereas the one for the front fogs and the backlighting is Green. Bulb part numbers are STC1877 for Orange, STC1878 for Green. For some unknown reason the green ones are 5 times the price of the orange one. LRDiect have both in stock. Can't help with LED equivalents though, for the time being it might be worth just putting a replacement bulb in the switch to get you through the test and do the LED conversion when it is a bit warmer.....

Thanks for the prompt reply. That's a weight off my mind. I edited the post a couple of times while you were writing your reply... there's a full set of LEDs for sale... Link in post.

You can choose colour for the 3 dial backlights, the rest are white. I assume the colours are in the sockets because they tell you to remove the green coating for the dials if you want a different colour.. I'm sticking with green.

That set is only for the dash, not the switches. The three bulbs that illuminate the message centre have green covers over them, the others don't. The ones in the switches are tiny little things and completely different to the instrument panel bulbs. See the pic here https://www.lrdirect.com/stc1877-bulb-and-holder-switches-orange and https://www.lrdirect.com/stc1878-bulb-and-holder-switches-green?sfi=STC187_

That looks very similar to the ones in the back of the HVAC display, R509T LED B8.3D 12V 2W Panel & Dashboard Bulbs

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/r509t-led-b8.3d-12v-2w-panel-and-dashboard-bulbs.html

I adore LR Direct. It does make the LR "brand tax" a bit obvious... I bought Lemförder track rod and drag link to avoid a massive markup for them changing the box!

Oops! I've been peeing up the wrong tree, haven't I? I had completely forgotten the telltale for the fog light is IN the switch.

I'll order a replacement switch or two from eBay or pop over to CWS in the morning. I can fit one and LED the other at my leisure.

Sorry, mate... you have the patience of a saint.

I think you'll find those LEDs from ABD are too big. They will fit the HEVAC but not in the switches, they really are tiny.

Dear All,
Been there done that and its not as simple as you think. The tell tale bulbs are in those little twist in plastic sockets. they are minute bulbs with short wire legs that are wrapped around the socket, and when twisted in place make contact with the PCB in the switch. There are no direct LED replacements. so you have to source single green or orange LED elements that also have the legs. push the legs through the holes, wrap them around the base. However these elements only emit light in one direction, so you have to allow enough room to bend them through 90's so they are "facing" front. But, these are often polarity sensitive so you have to make sure that when twisted into the switch both the wires are in contact with the positive or negative and the LED is face forward. Quite a faff. Well worth it when its done as they are much brighter.
I'm writing this from away from the car and my garage so i'll try to remember to upload some pictures at the end of the week.

Not only that but LEDs normally only need 3V but they are being supplied with 12V. Purpose made replacements will likely have current limiting resistors in series with them but just plain LEDs won't have. If you do manage to get them to work, they should still dim though as the panel light dimmer doesn't reduce the voltage as in old school motors but sends a PWM voltage to them.

It's a mod that I won't be doing as every one I have seen has nice bright panel lights which look really impressive but when I'm driving through the night on the continent, I dim mine right down. A Saab 900 I used to have had a very nice button to put the dash in Night Mode where it dimmed the speedo illumination right down and switched all the other dash lights off.

Never understood the fetish for LED dash lights - I have never, ever run my dash lights at ‘full bore’, indeed they are always run at less than half the available intensity. LED for side, head, brake, puddle and, particularly, reversing lights certainly. Even for dedicated map reading lamps, if fitted, and interior courtesy lamps perhaps (but not in the front as it kills night vision if switched on whilst on the move) but never dash lights.

Garvin, is the BeCM okay with LED’s in side, brake and reverse positions? I was wondering if the lower current draw would give a message on the instrument panel?

I have LEDs fitted to front sidelights only with no problem as I use these as the increased light intensity in low light conditions not warranting headlights seems worthwhile to be seen. I do not have them fitted to any other lights but am led (pun intended) to believe that careful selection of LED lamps designed to work with the P38 operate without problem but cannot confirm this personally.

I have uprated halogens fitted to the head and driving lamps as the stock system is pretty damn good and the lower blue light and higher yellow light content mean they are much better during misty/foggy conditions. As for the rear lights, the stock system of halogens is more than adequate for rear, brake and turn signal and higher intensity would just irritate following drivers for no good reason.. However I am tempted to fit LEDs to the reversing lamps as the higher intensity/lumens would aid vision when reversing in the dark.

Way back I fitted plain LED bulbs (from Halfords of all places as suddenly a selection of sizes appeared on the racks) into the reversing lights and had to add resistors to keep the BECM happy. Seem to recall writing up how to calculate the resistor sizes needed either here or in the other place.

These days CANBUS friendly LED bulbs are easily found.

No issues with the little bulbs for interior lights or the multi-LED panel I found for the cargo bay light. Vastly brighter interior was well worth the modest cost. Reversing lights are better, up to not quite crap from really crap!

Clive

Clive

Garvin wrote:

Never understood the fetish for LED dash lights

It depends on the application. They are an order of magnitude more efficient and can run cooler, so they last much longer.

Headlamp applications tend to run hot but still last longer then halogens and are very bright because they're efficient. It exposes the weakness of setting regulations on the wrong unit - Watts. I imagine they'll switch to lumens or lux soon, if they haven't already. They aren't type approved, though, and they're getting better at detecting them. I use the high pressure xenon filament upgrades from Phillips and Ring night from ABD. Love'em.

Interior lights also have wattage significantly less than the incandescent equivalents (about a fifth to a tenth), run cool and can last 100,000 hours (allegedly!) Having just had the kick panel, binnacle, radio and centre panel out it actually wasn't as bad as I expected... But the less often I have to do it, the better. In the summer I'm going to take the entire dash out, replace everything with LEDs and out it back knitting I'll be dead before any of them fails.

Another bonus is that reduced power consumption means you might not kill your battery if you accidentally leave an interior light on. My wife's tailgate didn't latch one evening and she missed it because she thought it was the delay timer ... It ran flat and that de-synced the immobiliser and BeCM. LEDs MIGHT have prevented that.

LEDs last much longer? Supposed to but if the problems I've had with domestic LEDs is anything to go by then I wouldn't bank on it - seems that the requirement for much more connections within the LED array is a particularly weak point - plenty of U-Tube videos now available on how to 'fix' those expensive LED bulbs that, apparently, will outlive you! Indeed, fix is the wrong word as they just short circuit the errant LED out of the matrix.

Besides which, Rangie is 22 years old and I've only had to replace a couple of bulbs that have failed and not, as far as I can remember, a dash bulb! Compared to the rest of the things that need regularly replacing because they fail the bulbs are way, way down the list!

Having said that a LED set up for the luggage compartment is definitely a good idea.

I'm sceptical of the longevity claims too, hence the (allegedly). 100k hours is 4,167 days... So it's probably an estimate, a typo from 10,000 or an outright lie! But they have no physical filament, run cooler and resist shock and vibration better when turned on than hot tungsten. Each to their own.

Be careful with swapping to different headlamp bulbs. The regulations used to be that you could have HID or LED bulbs if the headlamps had a levelling device (which we have) and headlamp wipers (which most of us have) but that has now been changed. The wording in the testers manual says:
Existing halogen headlamp units on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 must not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp for light source and lamp not compatible.

I use Osram Nightbreakers in mine as they are noticeably better than standard halogen but still legit. My boot light kept falling out of its hole in the tailgate so I got a rectangular LED panel that was around the same size and fitted that. Then discovered that as I keep my toolbox on the LH side of the boot (where the CD player and sub would live if I had them) I was in my own shadow if I wanted to get something out of the toolbox. So I fitted another on the other side.....

New switch fitted, MoT test passed. I want to see if I can upgrade the old switch to LED. What's the trick to taking the cap off to get at the inside? Looks like a tooth either side but lifted both and it won't budge.

Turn it anti-clockwise, it is a bayonet style fit.

Thanks for all the info on the LED’s. I’m going to try using some in a few places.