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Joined: Dec 22 2016
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Is it worth doing any more work on the heads whilst they are off, oil stem seals and the like?
I might have a go at lapping the valves, can't really hurt.

Found some info online about after market head units, so a handful of resistor network attenuators will be the cheapest way to get audio sorted. Presumably the same theory for the sub amp, but will cross that bridge later. Steering wheel controls look like a resistor network, and there are various conversion units out there for that.

I can live without them for the time being anyway, plus I half fancy getting one of the newer P38 wood trimmed steering wheels assuming such things can be had for sensible money, and i believe the steering wheel controls in them work slightly differently as different head units?

What's the best way to confirm the UJs are the problem, or are at least worn and needing sorted?

LPG.. I'm guessing multipoint should be more efficient overall, and less likely to contribute to liner/head issues? Also, since I've got to take the heads etc off anyway, that would be an ideal time to fit the injectors.

Where's the best place to go for kits, Mr lpgc? Or A.N. Other? Preferably someone who can certify the install and is vaguely between Glasgow and Sheffield.

Tank wise I'm thinking spare wheel well, but probably bigger than the toroidal tanks. I've seen mention of putting an additional tank underneath along one of the rails, but not sure if that has been done or is practical. Also mention of replacing petrol tank with a partitioned one.

Fortunately this is not my daily so there is no particular rush to get things done in a weekend. Plus once it's fixed I'll be required to remove the XM donor vehicle.

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Joined: Dec 29 2015
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I bought my tank from Dougie Martin in Westfield. He's got a garage there where he does LPG conversion, MOTs and stuff. Always very clean and tidy, with expensive stuff on the ramps. Simon at Angus Autogas in Arbroath is a bit further away but he's a big Range Rover nut too.

And as you say, there's LPGC of this parish.

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mace wrote:

Found some info online about after market head units, so a handful of resistor network attenuators will be the cheapest way to get audio sorted. Presumably the same theory for the sub amp, but will cross that bridge later. Steering wheel controls look like a resistor network, and there are various conversion units out there for that.

This is the way to go, the attenuator circuits aren't difficult and the sound from the individual door amps and stock speakers is actually very good. The downside is getting the sub to work properly. It can bedone, but I wasn't satisfied with the performance of it, and then the speakers had suffered foam rot and fell apart. I ended up removing mine and replacing the interior panels with a non-subwoofer version, and then hid an aftermarket amplifier behind said panels, and have a subwoofer sitting in the boot. Connected with a Speakon connector, so I can just unplug it and take it out if I need the small amount of space it takes up. I have a thread on here I think about that.

As for steering wheel controls - get a PAC SWI-RC. Its a learning steering wheel control adapter, so it will work with any controls, including either the early steering wheels or late (the resistor networks changed when the standard Clarion head unit was changed to an Alpine). You can also assign the buttons however you want with it.

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
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Sloth wrote:

As for steering wheel controls - get a PAC SWI-RC. Its a learning steering wheel control adapter, so it will work with any controls, including either the early steering wheels or late (the resistor networks changed when the standard Clarion head unit was changed to an Alpine). You can also assign the buttons however you want with it.

How good is the response time with this one?

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If you buy the head gasket set from Island (go for the one with Elring gaskets) you'll get a set of valve stem seals in the set so you may as well fit them while the heads are off. Same really goes for lapping the valves in, if the springs are off to change the stem seals, why not?

An aftermarket head unit with line level outputs will be just that, industry standard line level, usually 1V p-p, but the original puts out more than that so the danger is that the amps will be under driven. Using the speaker outputs and the attenuator network works well as the levels and impedance are correct. Anything with an output for a sub, can be connected to the original sub so even that will work. The difference in the remote controls between early and late is the values of resistors used so if using an aftermarket head unit you just need the suitable adapter to suit the later steering wheel.

UJ's, take them off and give them a wiggle. They can appear to be fine while still attached to the car unless they are really shot, so disconnecting one end of a propshaft is the only way to be sure.

Multipoint LPG will be slightly more efficient but neither will contribute to head or liner issues. That's yet another old wives tale from people that know naff all about LPG conversions. My first LPG car was an old Saab 900 and I mentioned to a highly regarded Saab specialist that it was running on LPG and he told me the valves would be shot in 10,000 miles. When I told him it had 260,000 miles on the clock, had been converted at 40,000 miles and the head had never been off in it's life, he just shrugged and walked away. You'll get a 90 litre full toroidal tank in the spare wheel well, good for around 240 ish miles range. Hardly worth messing around with smaller additional ones. The smaller petrol tanks are for the Classic not the P38 and the torpedo tanks along the chassis rails were fitted to Discovery's which don't have a spare wheel well. They are also relatively small so not really worth the effort and complication. Simon, LPGC, will supply you a kit of parts to fit yourself or will do you a complete conversion. You can get a kit from the likes of LPGShop but if you get stuck while fitting it you are on your own whereas Simon prides himself on after sales service no matter how stupid the question. Drop him a PM and see what he would charge and compare it with your local installers.

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
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Think between you and Gordon I've been almost converted to single point.

That said, spotted a guy selling what is supposedly a used complete multipoint kit for a P38 in Glasgow for ~ 100 notes, including inlet manifold and tank. Just waiting to find out what bits are in it, to see if it's worth a punt.

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At that price it may be worth a punt but only may. If it's some oddball system with no support, programming software and spares no longer available then you may find you've bought an old tank and a few useless bits. Find out what it is first and the date code on the tank too.

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
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It's a romano system apparently:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/car-replacement-parts/Range-rover-Lpg-kit/1207219627

Everything is there to fit the kit. Including inlet manifold, make is romano, i bought it for my 4 litre disco but i have changed my plan, it was
removed from a 4.6 range rover will fit 4 litre also.

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mace wrote:

Sloth wrote:

As for steering wheel controls - get a PAC SWI-RC. Its a learning steering wheel control adapter, so it will work with any controls, including either the early steering wheels or late (the resistor networks changed when the standard Clarion head unit was changed to an Alpine). You can also assign the buttons however you want with it.

How good is the response time with this one?

With my Pioneer head unit at least, instant. Marty had the same SWI-RC in his, I think with a Kenwood possibly?

Gilbertd wrote:

An aftermarket head unit with line level outputs will be just that, industry standard line level, usually 1V p-p, but the original puts out more than that so the danger is that the amps will be under driven. Using the speaker outputs and the attenuator network works well as the levels and impedance are correct. Anything with an output for a sub, can be connected to the original sub so even that will work. The difference in the remote controls between early and late is the values of resistors used so if using an aftermarket head unit you just need the suitable adapter to suit the later steering wheel.

I tried a couple of head units using the line outs, and never had a great result. With one, I found tying the grounds from the line outputs would produce reasonable audio, but there was some buzzing that got irritating. Most car head units output at least 2v, and then some are 4v (unless this is marketing BS, and referring to it in some other way, over to you Richard!). Mine were just the standard "2v" I believe. The 'Ray Ambler' antennuator method is near perfect, and will work with any head unit. I was sceptical at first, but I'm glad I stopped messing around with trying to use line level signals. I say 'near perfect' - there is a tiny, tiny buzz that can only be heard if everything is totally silent and the engine isn't running... it may even be present with the stock head units, I don't know, I've never kept either of them long enough to notice, because they were 18-20 years old and a tape/CD/FM radio doesn't cut it these days.

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The tank looks old and as the seller bought the kit to fit but hasn't, you've no way of knowing if it works or not. It might be good, but equally it might need new injectors and reducer and the tank could be over 10 years old so not certifiable. You'd be paying 100 quid for a secondhand ECU and a loom that is likely to have been well butchered. If buying secondhand you'd be better to buy something that you can at least see running on a car and remove it yourself.

Nick has answered most of what you need to know on the audio front.

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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I'd second the PAC SWI-RC.

Ran it with my JVC head unit for a good few years. As Nick says, it's pretty much instantaneous. No noticeable delay at all. Worked with my 2001 Vogue steering wheel, easily programmable.

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
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Sounds good, thanks. Will need to find one then; looks like all from the US for ~ 70+ quid at the moment.

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Joined: Jan 06 2016
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The Ray Ambler attenuators cost pennies (literally) to get the resistors from RS Components and, as Marty/ Sloth have said, work really well with the door amps and my Sony head unit, which gives a bluetooth dongle input plus a USB slot where I put in a 64GB microstick with all my CD's on it. No appreciable (unless you've got bat ears like Sloth) buzz, hum or distortion. The PAC SWI-RC works fine as well, with no lag. Mine glitches occasionally but more due to the condition of the buttons in the steering wheel of my '95.
The sub is driven straight from the sub outs of the Sony but through a PC9-460 adjustable line level booster to drive it a little harder.
Only thing I'd change, if I were keeping the car, would be to get a head unit with DAB + FM radio rather than just FM, but the head came with the car so that's what I used.
EDIT In case you haven't seen it, details of the attenuator can be found here

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Joined: Jan 06 2016
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With your LPG tanks, you could go as far as an RPI installation, giving 135L capacity. Mine (bit aged now- it was put in in 2009) is here. You lose the spare wheel well but get a straight steel boot floor bolted over what you see here and the original lift panel covers everything. Tanks aren't lowest point under car either, although if I was heavy-duty offroading I'd probably put something under them to protect them. Requires a mod to the exhaust to fit round tanks too.

enter image description here

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Gilbertd wrote:

If you buy the head gasket set from Island (go for the one with Elring gaskets) you'll get a set of valve stem seals in the set so you may as well fit them while the heads are off. Same really goes for lapping the valves in, if the springs are off to change the stem seals, why not?

An aftermarket head unit with line level outputs will be just that, industry standard line level, usually 1V p-p, but the original puts out more than that so the danger is that the amps will be under driven. Using the speaker outputs and the attenuator network works well as the levels and impedance are correct. Anything with an output for a sub, can be connected to the original sub so even that will work. The difference in the remote controls between early and late is the values of resistors used so if using an aftermarket head unit you just need the suitable adapter to suit the later steering wheel.

UJ's, take them off and give them a wiggle. They can appear to be fine while still attached to the car unless they are really shot, so disconnecting one end of a propshaft is the only way to be sure.

Multipoint LPG will be slightly more efficient but neither will contribute to head or liner issues. That's yet another old wives tale from people that know naff all about LPG conversions. My first LPG car was an old Saab 900 and I mentioned to a highly regarded Saab specialist that it was running on LPG and he told me the valves would be shot in 10,000 miles. When I told him it had 260,000 miles on the clock, had been converted at 40,000 miles and the head had never been off in it's life, he just shrugged and walked away. You'll get a 90 litre full toroidal tank in the spare wheel well, good for around 240 ish miles range. Hardly worth messing around with smaller additional ones. The smaller petrol tanks are for the Classic not the P38 and the torpedo tanks along the chassis rails were fitted to Discovery's which don't have a spare wheel well. They are also relatively small so not really worth the effort and complication. Simon, LPGC, will supply you a kit of parts to fit yourself or will do you a complete conversion. You can get a kit from the likes of LPGShop but if you get stuck while fitting it you are on your own whereas Simon prides himself on after sales service no matter how stupid the question. Drop him a PM and see what he would charge and compare it with your local installers.

This reminds me, I'm still jealous of your 240 miles tank range. I think it's time to get back underneath and change over the last O2 before a visit to Simon....

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
Posts: 286

Ok made a wee bit of progress this week:

Front washers are now mostly working. The right angled connector on the bonnet had snapped off so no fluid was getting as far as the jets. Also one of the jet connectors was a little ropey, so that's been replaced too. One of the four jets still needs clearing with a needle but otherwise they are good to go.

Checked that washer fluid was making it through to the rear jet, which it was. So that looks like a blocked jet. Couldn't get the jet to pop out though to clean it, and it's kinda fiddly to get to to stick a needle in, so haven't done that yet.

Battery replaced with a behemoth, and fully charged. Unfortunately it hasn't fixed the flickering lights, and my mate who was checking the voltage whilst I was in the car reckoned he saw a 15v spike a few times, and that the voltage was generally all over the shop. So perhaps the alternator (or regulator at least) isn't too clever? I know it's only running on 6 or 7 cylinders, but even with that lumpiness I'd have expected the regulator to cope (tested at idle and fast idle).

Sticky boot switch disassembled, cleaned and reassembled. Working a treat now.

Scuttle and cabin air inlets fully disassembled, cleaned and vacuumed. Discovered that the passenger side fan wasn't spinning, which turned out to be a bad relay. Swapped it for one of the heated screen ones and it fired up quite happily.

Drivers door card off to look at the speaker bodging, and also to see why the puddle light wasn't working after changing the bulb.

The puddle light turned out to be disconnected, not sure why, but it's back in now and working. Checked it goes out when door closed so who knows why they disconnected it previously.

Speaker wiring was bodged, but not as badly as I had first feared. Amp wires to the mid-range speaker had been cut and crimped onto a wire that ran back through to the old head unit. This connector was actually connected to the low-range speaker. Removed the crimps, soldered and heat shrinked the connector back on to it's original wire, and reconnected the mid and low range speakers.

Still to do the same wiring fix in the passenger door.

Went up to gemm 4x4 and found some trim panels to replace slightly damaged ones in mine. Also got a couple of bulbs for the hevac so I can see what it's up to before my island order arrives, and some relays. Except I forgot to pick the relays up, so they are still in Falkirk (going that way any time soon Gordon?)

So, started testing the hevac. Fan control is ok, and blowers are sorted. Directional control seems to work, but the two temperature control blend motors look to be doing nothing. So I guess I'll be digging them out soon to fix. Book icon is on, obviously.

Valve spring removal tool and valve lapping. Any suggestions for where to get reasonable quality tools/pastes/etc?

orangebean: cheers for info and pics. I think I'll go with the toroidal tank for now, don't really fancy chopping big holes in the boot floor this early into ownership. :)

Am pondering having a look at megasquirt to replace gems ecu and to drive both petrol and lpg. Will be a while before I get anywhere near looking at this though.

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Joined: Dec 29 2015
Posts: 717

Annoyingly I was in Edinbugger most of the week on a course, and could have swung by Gemm on my way home.

Re chopping holes in the boot floor, you should get a "0 degree" tank which has the neck on the outside, which you then poke out through a hole about 3" in diameter sawn into the spare wheel well.

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
Posts: 286

No worries - there's no rush for them, half of the windscreen looks to be knackered anyway (open circuit on the drivers side element).

Re tank that sounds sensible. I was more getting at the dual tank setup pictured previously which involves cutting the whole bottom out of the wheel well.

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Joined: Dec 22 2016
Posts: 286

Island order arrived, so set about sorting the hevac bulbs and switches.
New air filter installed after giving the lower chamber a quick vacuum.
Blue box cabin filters are a work in progress, the passenger side one really didn't want to go in, and didn't seem to go as far in as I'd have liked it to. Lid went back on to hold it in situ. Was going to do the drivers side, but looking in the slot I'm not happy about the alignment, so will take that side apart again and make sure it's all correctly seated.

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Joined: Jan 06 2016
Posts: 2312

Blue box on mine- slid straight into the housing all the way with no probs (about the only thing I've done so far without side issues!).
Silly question, but I have to ask- you are putting them in the correct orientation are you?