So...

Today I went off to buy/collect a whole load of bits from the guy I bought my project P38's off - got a couple of dash fascias, switchpacks, HEVAC controllers etc all to be pulled apart and overhauled... I also ended up buying most of a GEMS engine... which was apparently the original engine from my 'R' Reg. The problem... it's got a couple of liners which have damage around the top of them... Oh, and a piston missing...

I've attached a pic, but what's the thought on whether this thing would be fixable with (top hat liners obviously). I got the block as it is, a pair of heads, front cover, rocker covers, lower inlet manifold, and another set of 8 pistons/rods for £250 - so figured it was worth the punt, as if it is salvageable with top hats, then it will be nice to put the original engine back in it, and will mean I can build one up to just swap over.

He said that it wasn't using any water, but just had a knock on it. There's another cylinder up the front which is about the same, but I was more worried about this one as it's next to the water jacket.

Thoughts?

Marty

Right, next thin on my list... death wobble...

Driving down the motorway today and the RR is damn near impossible to drive without feeling like it' going to be shaken to bits. I've done a load of the common things, which I'll list below... and nothing has made a difference yet.

Done so far:
Wheels balanced not long ago - they found they were well out as they hadn't been done properly when they were originally fitted.
Tyre pressures checked and topped up where necessary.
Front prop UJ's have been replaced a couple of times, and I put a brand new prop on it not too long ago aswell
Rear prop UJ's have also been changed.
Anti-roll bar bushes and drop links renewed
Front Ball joints replaced (genuine Lemforder)
New drag link and track rod (one was an MOT fail a year or so ago, so replaced bot of them
Replacement steering damper - had a Boge one to begin with an now got one of the Cellular Dynamic ones on - no real difference
It's had new Boge shocks a few years ago aswell

Vibration is mostly felt from 60mph up, but sometimes down as low as 40mph.
Generally feels like it's shaking the whole vehicle, rather than just through the steering wheel - sometimes you can feel it through the steering wheel too though.

My current thought is that it could be the tyres? they are only a few years old and have about 15K miles on them, but wonder if because they are an A/T tyre they causing it - or maybe the fact that it spends so much time sitting there that they've gone 'out of round' a bit?

It's getting to the point where I don't want to take the thing on the motorway as it's such a chore to drive - you can't actually cruise in it without feeling like your teeth are going to fall out.

On an unrelated note, It wanders like buggery too - but I think that is the steering box wear. I tightened it up today, which has made it feel sturdier to steer, but now feels like it's wandering a lot more (part of that I think is slop in the steering box) - it doesn't constantly pull to one side but have to constantly correct it. It's fine around town - just at higher speed.

Doesn't feel right, compared to my previous 2 RR's that had really good road manners and you were able to cruise happily. I've been considering changing the tyres for something a little more road biased, as it doesn't get offroaded as much as I hoped it would!

Thoughts?

Well, I figured I'd post it here first, before putting it on the 'other' site (purely because of a wider exposure!!)

I got a lovely delivery from China today... my order of Zebra Strip connectors to replace the ribbon cable design in the HEVAC unit for making the LCD work...

The minimum order was 500... made to specifications that I gave them.

One unit looks like this:

And installed, gives you one of these:

I have them listed in my shop, and they are about half the price of buying them from France on eBay... Small enough to come in a standard envelope, so postage is £1 for 1st class delivery.

I will be doing a set of instructions on the installation procedure, with high res images aswell, hopefully in the next week or so - as I'll be pulling the HEVAC unit out of my own RR to be the 'guinea pig' for the instructions. I've already tested the connectors on 2 of my other HEVAC units - one is a spare and one is a bit past it as it was my test unit for LED installation - but on both of them I got a full screen of pixels....

Marty

Right, my turn to ask a question... and figured I'd post up here before the 'other place'...

2001, 4.6 Thor engine - petrol and LPG.
If I start it from cold, it runs fine - idles about 1200rpm for 20-30 seconds and then idle drops back to about 1000rpm, and then down to normal (seems to be normal behaviour for the Motronic 'cold start' strategy or that's what the manual said anyway! <br>

My problem is if I then hot start it - say go to the supermarket, and come back 10-15min later. Did it today and it had sat for 5min... It will start fine, and idle for a few seconds and then go lumpy and misfire for about 30-45 seconds (I presume until it goes back into closed loop). Then once it's had it's little tantrum, it will run, and idle sweetly on both petrol and gas. <br>

A brief run down of the engine/what I've done to it over the last few years since I've had it: <br>
First bought it and has misfiring at idle - all the time, petrol and gas. Changed TPS, CKS, HT leads and eventually tracked it down to a faulty MAF sensor. Replaced it with aftermarket and problem solved.. ish. <br>
It then ran fine, but every now and again I'd read the codes and the fuel trims would be jammed to max, I could reset adaptives and it would all be fine but over time would get skewed again. Ended up buying a genuine Bosch MAF and replacing the aftermarket Bearmach one - and problem solved. MAF is now about 2yrs old. <br>
Been poking about with the LPG and injectors/plumbing and all that so ran it on Petrol for a fair amount of time and trims seemed pretty stable, no recurring faults in the ECU. <br>
Over last 6 months or so (bearing in mind I'm away a lot and it doesn't get used - so 6 months is probably 1000 miles tops) it's been doing this when restarting the vehicle hot. <br>
Things that have been replaced in the last few years: <br>
MAF (Bearmach aftermarket, and then genuine Bosch circa 2014) <br>
TPS (aftermarket - 2012) <br>
CKS (Genuine LR - 2012) <br>
Spark Plugs (Changed at regular service Jan 2012 when I bought it, and then circa 2014 I changed them for NGK BPR6ES) <br>
HT Leads (Changed first in 2012 as regular service item, then circa 2014 I changed them for Magnecore KV85 HT Leads) <br>
Coil Packs (Changed circa 2104 with Magnecores and NGK's - Genuine Bosch replacement units) <br>
O2 sensors (Changed 2015 for Genuine Bosch sensors - partly preventative maintenance and partly due to LPG system being tapped into them and I was getting the odd O2 signal missing error in the engine ECU - LPG system had been connected on the sensor wiring side and on one side was just 'twisted and taped' so decided it was worth just replacing them!) <br>
IACV has previously been cleaned but it doesn't coke up like the GEMS one does either. <br>

My current thoughts... <br>
I have another genuine Bosch MAF so thinking about swapping that just to rule it in/out. I don't think it's the MAF as the symptoms of my problems before were bad idle all the time, not just on a hot start. <br>
I haven't yet chopped the O2 sensor wires off that feed the LPG system... now I know they aren't needed for anything the plan is to disconnect them altogether. I don't know if the LPG system is somehow interfering with it - but it feels like the problem is in the 'open loop' fuelling before it switches over to closed loop. <br>
I've looked at live data on Nanocom and the MAF reading looks to be fairly normal - however very quickly after I had reset adaptive values, the 'idle trim' fuel trims had shot from the reset value of 0.00 back up to about 1,46 where they were before. Other fuel trims are looking pretty close to 1.00 <br>
I don't think it's likely to be plugs, leads, coils - and as such haven't yet pulled the plugs out to check them - but if people think it's worth doing, then I'll do that in the next couple of days. <br>
I haven't tested fuel pressure - but I don't think it's the in tank pump as it has no trouble starting, and after it hits closed loop, it runs sweetly. <br>

Any ideas/thoughts/things to try? I've had the upper plenum off a few times when doing the LPG bits - and have resused the tin gasket a couple of times - but it's always been cleaned off and then re-sealed with a thin smear of black RTV. What's best to use if I want to spray something around the inlet to see if there is a vacuum leak into the manifold, post MAF? Easy start or something like that? <br>

I've decided I want to get it sorted this month as I have some time at home and want to catch up on some of the maintenance on it, even though it hasn't done a lot of mileage, but I'm likely to be using it more and it pisses me off when I'm out and about to have it idling so rough when I start it up - even if it is only for a short period of time! <br>

Cheers, <br>
Marty

I've been working on a web shop for all of my door latches and the likes, and had it sitting in the background of my server at home for the last 6 or 7 months without actually advertising that it's there...

If you wouldn't mind taking a look at it at some point, and like this site - seeing if you can break it...
Paypal Payments are set up and LIVE as far as I know, so be aware of that if you go through checkout stages etc! I've had it in sandbox mode for months to test it and think I've got it running properly now....

It can be found here:
Marty's P38 Web shop...

I am hoping I can get it up and running and then list things as/when I get them finish and start fielding enquiries about parts through the site. I will look at moving it to it's own domain and probably web space at some point, but at the moment it seems to handle OK on my server!

Thanks in advance...
Marty

As the title says - just an info thread on the lamps that the headlights take..

I was looking for them online, and couldn't find anything DEFINITIVE on what type they actually were (especially them inboard main beams)
I looked in RAVE, and also the owners handbook - which didn't help either. The owners manual just stated 60/55w Dip/Main and 55w Main - not what lamp base. Also looking on other forums, there were posts about headlights, but once again not a definitive list.

They are:
Outboard Dip/Main Beam: 60/55w H4 base
Inboard Main Beam: 55w H1 Base
Fog Lights: 55w H3 base 1995 - 1999/2000 (Older, pre 'Y2K' Facelift lights)
Fog Lights: 55w H1 base 1999/2000 - Runout (Newer, 'Y2K' Facelift Lights)
Park Lights: 5w W5W wedge base (I believe also known as 501)
Nudge Bar Spot Lights: 55w H3 base

I'm pretty sure the spots on the nudge bar are H3's - I haven't had to change them in awhile, so could be wrong. That is also only correct for the factory fitted Land Rover spots - Other makes/brands that are aftermarket may be the same though.

I hope this helps someone in the future!

Marty

Hi All,

This is one I posted up on another forum a long time ago now, for when I was working to get a stereo working in my 2001 Vogue which was supposed to have the DSP amplifier and I found it was missing. I have more recently been working on a way to modify the system for vehicle which have had a DSP amp failure (as they are nigh on obsolete) and getting a system working again with the FACTORY head unit. I will do the write-up on here at some point aswell with how I set about installing an aftermarket head unit/navigation system in my '01.

But for the moment, the wiring...

After a lot of searching on the web, and hours in the ETM trying to collate all the information, and find out missing bits, what everything connects to etc - and with a bit of searching on a couple of BMW forums for pinouts in their vehicles that use the same sort of system (sadly not an identical amp though ) I've managed to find out what everything does, including polarities for the speaker connections, head unit connections etc (which the ETM doesn't have)

So, as it was a wet, horrible day here in England, and with tyring to sort through to find come cable colours to wire in my crossover circuits I've built, I figured I'd put it all in one spreadsheet..

And after a few hours work, looking in the ETM again, and collating my pages of notes, I have attached the PDF file to this post. This is the second version of the file, with a bit more information which was clarified regarding the CD-Changer.

Please note also... this is ONLY for the models with the single DSP amplifier in the boot (2000MY On), NOT earlier models with the individual door amps (up to 2000MY).

Marty

P38 Premium Stereo Wiring

P38 Range Rovers were advanced for their years - a lot of electronics in them that were new and scared off a lot of 'old school' mechanics where wire went from a battery, through a switch and/or relay and then on to whatever it was controlling.

The addition of a BECM (Body Electrical Control Module) which basically piled a processor, bunch of MOSFETs, relays and input/outputs was like a magic voodoo box to a lot of them, but in reality (and compared to the newer ones!!) the electronic systems on a P38 aren't that complex.

P38's are notoriously power hungry, and sensitive to voltage, especially from weak batteries - or the BECM not sleeping due to RF interference issues, which seem to be a common problem the world over. The most common 'telltales' of voltage problems are 'GEARBOX FAULT' on the dash, sometimes accompanied by other warning lights, 'ABS FAULT', 'TRACTION FAILURE', or 'ALTERNATOR FAULT' (which isn't a sign of the alternator failing in every case)

Below are some tests, and expected outcomes for them to help try and diagnose where your issues lie in the starting/charging system. If you have battery drain problems, then it is worth doing these aswell, to make sure that the charging system is working properly. Once that is ruled out then other avenues can be explored (I am sure there will be another thread soon on testing for BECM sleeping and battery drain!)

These tests are a simplified version taken from other RR forums, and also a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) from Land Rover on the subject of battery drain and charging problems.

If you have electrical/starting/charging problems, please help up to help you and do these tests BEFORE posting, and include these in the first post with a description of the problem, and what you have done so far. It will help narrow down issues and give you a quicker resolution!

1. Battery voltage, Engine off - before starting:
2. Battery voltage, Engine started, idling, with no electrical load:
3. Battery voltage, Engine running at 2000rpm with no electrical load:
4. Battery voltage, Engine running at 2000rpm with electrical load (headlights/high beams, blowers on full, heated seats/screens on (where fitted)):
5. Voltage drop from the alternator body to battery NEGATIVE post, Engine running at 2000rpm with electrical load. Use the DC millivolts range on your multimeter:
6. Voltage drop from the alternator positive terminal to battery POSITIVE post, Engine running at 2000rpm with electrical load. Use the DC millivolts range on your multimeter:

Some explanation/results you should expect to see from the above tests;

1. A fully charged battery, with no load on it should read approx 12.6V. With a power hungry RR attached to it, and the BECM awake, then I would expect to see 12.1V and above. Less than 12V means the battery is starting to go flat and whilst it might crank and start, the battery is either not being charged properly, there is a very heavy drain on it so it is never fully charged, or it's starting to fail. Try a decent battery charger on it and see if it will charge up again fully.
2. This shows a basic voltage that you are getting back to the battery with the alternator spinning. Ideally at idle you should see somewhere from 13.8v-14.1v depending on what is running and the condition of the alternator/cables/battery. At this point, as long as it's above 12.6V (a fully charged 12V battery) then you are getting something put back into it.
3. You should now be seeing full charging voltage - for a P38, this is usually between 14.1 and 14.4V. much more than that and you run the risk of overcharging and cooking a standard lead acid battery. These systems weren't designed to use some of the newer battery technologies which require a higher charging voltage (14.8V) if you have one of these batteries, then it will never fully charge as the alternator isn't set that high and it would be worth swapping the battery back to a normal one which is designed to have the lower charging voltage.
4. This will help tell you if the alternator/battery cables are up to the job of providing enough power to charge the battery AND run any ancillary electrical devices in the vehicle. In a healthy system, you should see little, or ideally no voltage drop when the system is running under load. If you have a larger drop (voltage less than 14V) then there is an issue somewhere - either with the alternator or the charging cables. The next tests will help find out where.
5. This test the voltage drop along the earth straps. In a good system you should see about 30mv. According to the LR TSB, up to 130mv is acceptable, but anything over 130mv is a fail and the strap needs to be replaced. Lower is better - as this is how much is being lost in the cable, and affects the current carrying capability of the cables aswell. Even if the cable visually looks fine, it can corrode internally and cause electrical problems and charging issues.
6. This does the same, but for the positive terminal. Again 130mv is the MAXIMUM, ideally again about 30mv is great to see.. GEMS models are particularly bad as the charging cable from the alternator goes from the alternator, down to the starter motor and then back up to the battery - nearly 2m of extra cable to try and shove the power through. Also if the start motor gets oil dripped on it over time, the connections there can start causing problems. I recommend GEMS owners to either buy or make an additional charging cable to run directly from the alternator to the battery terminal. This gives a direct charging path and can help immensely on GEMS vehicles. (Later Thor models already had the charging cable run directly)

Thanks to Greg Hind for posting this up originally on one of the other forums. I have adapted/streamlined it a bit here and added my own observations!

Marty

So, I've been intrigued for awhile about the issues that there are with window switchpacks - randomly failing, or switches becoming intermittent.

Sometimes, yes a blast of contact cleaner works, or it works for awhile and then it starts playing up again.

We've got a P38 in the workshop that we are fixing up to sell, rather than break it for parts - and the other day I noticed that the window switches were playing up. They had all been working fine, but now they were intermittent at best.

So, being that I like to pull things apart, and because I wanted to see if it was fixable rather than chuck it out and buy a replacement - which will be second hand anyway, I got it on the work bench this afternoon and stripped it right back. I did a test run on one of them to see if it was a case of being able to repair, before breaking out the camera and taking photos... Pix or it didn't happen, right?

What I found (before I get into the pictures and the steps I took) was that the little metal disc that is actually the 'switch' looks to get tarnished over time, and on one of them I saw there was a tiny spot of corrosion build up too - which was causing the connection to be intermittent.

So I'll start from the point where you've got the window switchpack out of the vehicle, on a bench - and the switch module removed from the trim and the board unclipped from this. On my one there were a bunch of Torx head screws holding the switch module to the trim. I think they were either a T10 or T15. I just grabbed the screwdriver off the shelf and didn't check what it was!

So, you've got this board in front of you, with a whole load of dust and crud on it, and a bunch of switches that don't work... The first step is to take the switch caps off. The one I was working on I could unclip them with my fingers but pulling up one side, and then following with the other. Technically you don't NEED to remove them, but I found it useful at the end to make sure everything was still sitting in place after the clear light pipe octopus was put back in place.

(the Rear Inhibit switch was my test one so was put back together and tested by this point!)

So next, turn the board upside down and you get a view of the bottom of the switches like this:

Take a sharp knife and then cut off the black plastic tips of the switch housings. Be careful removing them as you want to put them to one side for later... We'll use them to help hold the switches back on after the fixing is done.

You should end up with something looking a bit like this:

You should then be able to remove the switch from the board. Sometimes they need a bit of persuasion from a thin spudger (though I was able to pull most of mine off with a bit of a wiggle)

And you end up with this:

And the board looking like this:

Then take your sharp knife again (I use a scalpel for these smaller bits) and cut the tape around the switch pads so they can be removed:

Then remove the switch pads and you'll have a board that looks like this:

And then you get the switch pads separate. as you can see, there is some tarnishing on one side of these.

I then used a small screwdriver just to scratch the surface and scrub the tarnishing off of it.

After removing the tarnishing from the underside of the button, I decided to apply a VERY thin layer of solder on them - but don't get too excited with it - if you turn it over and can't press it down for it to 'click' then you've put too much on!

After doing this, then I lined them back up one at a time, and put some clear tape on them to keep them back in place:

With that bit back on it's possible to press the buttons and test the connections, to make sure they are solid and not intermittent anymore. I have done a pin-out of the pins on the main chip on the board and will put that at the bottom of this post, or in the next one once I've finished doing a draw up of the chip. To test the buttons, use a multimeter on continuity, and put the -ve probe on the ground point for the switch pack (the bolt on the voltage regulator by the connector is a good place) and then the +ve probe onto the pin of the main chip that you are testing. You will get a reading of 000 or 001 ohms on the side of the switch you are testing (or should do!) and a reading of about 900ohms when the opposite side of the switch is pressed. If you get a reading without pressing the switch at all, then the button is shorting out, so will be active all the time!

Once you have tested it an happy to begin reassembly, then use your sharp scalpel/knife etc to prick holes back in the clear tape so the legs of the switch housing and light pipe can poke back through. Then push the switch back in and then use a soldering iron to melt the plastic of the legs back to hold it in place. This is where I used the cut-offs from disassembly and melted them back in as well and used a pair of tweezers to flatten it out to make sure that it's not going to come apart again.

And you should end up with something like this:

And a whole board of them:

Once you've got the whole thing repaired and the switches are all tested, then you can put the switch caps back on, the light pipe 'octopus' back on, you can then put it back in the casing and reassemble it all... Put it back in the vehicle and test it!

Image below is of the chip that's on the switch pack - looking at it, the black dot is the semi-circle towards the edge of the board.

Hope others find this useful, and can keep a few switchpacks in use for a bit longer - since they seem to be 'unfixable'

I am also looking into the possibility of replacing the little metal 'pad' switches (if they've worn out completely for example) with the small 'tactile' surface mount switches (like the buttons in the remote fob) - but since these seem to be repairable, that's a bit further down the list again!

This won't fix the problems where the switch pack completely fails (like some people find after putting a new battery in)... I am not sure what causes this, but if someone has a spare one about somewhere which has failed in this manner, then I'm happy to take it off your hands and take a look into what has actually failed on it and see if it is repairable too...

Marty

Having seen the spate of recent threads/postings about door latches that might be faulty on various Range Rover sites I'm a part of, and the numerous emails, PM's, calls about locking problems and questions of how to test them, I have put together the attached document for a concise list of tests, and expected outcomes which is suitable for all P38 FRONT door latches. I have posted up a version of this in various threads, but have updated the document to be a bit more 'user friendly' to those not so savvy with electrics/wiring and figured I would put it all in one main thread for reference.

I haven't included the rear door latches, as they seem to give a lot less trouble than the front ones, and don't really contribute to the inputs to the central locking system, other than to tell if a door is open. However if you suspect a faulty rear latch and want to test it, drop me a message an I'll be happy to help.

All of this information is from the RAVE manual, specifically the Electrical Troubleshooting Manual, which defines all of the wiring colours. It is also put together from my personal 'real world' experience of looking at door latches/locking problems and from rebuilding the latches themselves.

Whilst RAVE gives the wiring colours of the loom in the vehicle, it doesn't give the colours of the wired in the loom that comes from the latch on the models post 1996ish. RAVE also doesn't give a logic/truth table about which switch should be in which state when certain operations are carried out, so hopefully this will help give a set of tests and 'expected' results to help owners diagnose whether their latch is functioning properly, intermittently, or just not at all.

To do these tests you need to take the door card off, and need a multimeter set to the lowest 'ohms' setting (I prefer a multimeter with a beep tone function for continuity testing). Also a set of test leads with crocodile clips on either end can be useful for clipping meter probes to connector pins whilst you are performing the tests. Sometimes a helpful assistant can be useful too..

If you find any errors, or parts that could do with clarification, then please let me know and I shall update this reference where necessary. The motor tests aren't usually conclusive as the resistance can change, but can help to tell you if the motor (particularly superlock) is functioning properly or faulty/seized/burnt out.

Marty

The test sheet can be downloaded from the 'Technical Information' page of my website - which is linked to below:
P38 Door Latch Tests

I'm Martin - or Marty as known by most people I work with and in the RR community. I grew up in New Zealand and moved to the UK in 2009.

My claim to fame is that I've only ever owned P38's - currently I'm on my 3rd as a daily driver, and have 2 more that are restoration projects as and when I get time around my real job of being a Lighting Designer/Technician and A/V Technician.

My first P38 was a 1995 4.6 HSE in Epsom Green, with the Dark Tan ('Saddle') Leather interior. I bought it (with a load from the bank!) when I was 21, much to the disapproval of my parents, and haven't looked back. A few years later I traded it in for a 1998 4.6 HSE, in Cobar Blue with Lightstone Leather interior. I sold this one when I moved to the UK in 2009. I then had a break for a few years as I was establishing myself over here and getting work, but then took the plunge and bought my 3rd and current one. She is a 2001 4.6 Vogue in Java Black with Lightstone Leather. It came with all the Land Rover trimmings - front/rear light guards, wraparound nudge bar with spotlights, side steps. Internally it has wood everywhere, and personally I love it. Not to everyone's taste, but it's nice to drive, and I've done far too much to it now to get rid of it!!

I specialise in the electronic side of things - I have Nanocom diagnostics, that are unlocked for all P38s, and also specialist BECM programming equipment. I also refubish a variety of P38 parts from EAS compressors, to window switchpacks, and door latches. I also do LED conversions for most of the interior switches/instrument clusters to 'modernise' the interior of the P38 a bit from the dull factory green, and hopefully keep the P38 looking as sharp inside as the newer ones.