mad-as wrote:

yes the 29th , i should have looked, the last time we did this it was evening their and morning here, so it would be the 30th for me. today is Christmas day and you have to wait till tomorrow, always playing catchup.

True, but at least we are ahead of the US.....

Took me so long to write my reply, I've been beaten to it, but here it is anyway....

I'll start by saying I am not familiar with your car but a fuel injection system works the same way no matter what engine we are talking about. The amount of fuel injected is dictated by the length of time the injectors are open for. This is controlled by a programmed fuelling map stored in the ECU and the amount of fuel will be dictated by the amount of air the engine is drawing in from the MAF, the throttle position sensor and various other sensors so the fuelling is correct for all eventualities. As a final check, the O2 sensors look at the exhaust and decided if the fuel/air ratio is correct and adjust slightly one way or the other to keep it correct.

So that is the theory, the output from the O2 sensors will vary between 0V and 1V signifying a lean or rich mixture. If the sensor is reporting 0V, the short term fuel trim will move positive to increase the injector pulse duration to allow slightly more fuel in. That then causes it to rise towards the 1V output so the short term trim then goes negative to decrease the pulse length so less fuel goes in. That is why the sensor reading will always be moving except at times when the system goes into what is termed open loop, usually on the overrun on a closed throttle, where is doesn't respond to the O2 sensor outputs.

You have low fuel pressure but the ECU assumes it is correct so opens the fuel injectors for a pre-determined duration that should equate to the correct amount of fuel going in. If the mixture is lean due to insufficient fuel being injected, the short term fuel trims will be permanently positive (because the O2 sensor will be showing 0V or thereabouts) to inject more fuel. The ECU sees this over a period and adjusts the long term fuel trims so that the short term trims return to moving either side of zero.

So what is likely to have happened on your car is that the fuel pressure is low, so insufficient fuel was being injected, causing the short term trims to go permanently positive. After a time of running, the long term trims adjust to get the short term trims back to normal. It is quite normal on an older car to see long term trims of up to 5% one way or the other as components age and the fuelling needs to be adjusted to keep things sweet. If the long term trims reach a certain level, that will cause the code to be thrown. The codes you have, P0171 and P0174, show too lean, bank 1 and 2 because the long term trims have reached a point where the codes appear. That will vary with different cars and ECUs fitted, and can be anything between +-10% or +-25%.

I had exactly the same P0171 code being thrown, with the long term fuel trim being at +25% (with the associated Check Engine light), on the 1 litre, 3 cylinder engine in a 2008 Toyota Aygo that my step daughter bought last year. Once the code was cleared, it reset the long and short trims to zero at which point the short term trim was showing permanently lean (and it ran badly) until the long term trim had adjusted. That was found to have low fuel pressure caused by the pickup mesh on the in-tank fuel pump being clogged solid with dirt.

23:06 GMT (Zulu for the ex-military) on the 29th, so whatever that works out to in your time zone.

v8vroom wrote:

Why I assumed the car had no "temperature sensor" is because it was aftermarket and the needle would start from 0 and stop just before "half", so I assumed it was not operating as standard.

It is only supposed to go up to half way up the scale, when it goes beyond half way is when it is starting to overheat so that is when you immediately turn the engine off and start to worry.

It takes a litre of oil to go from Min to Max on the dipstick, so if nothing is showing, I'd start by putting a litre in, wait for 30 seconds or so for it to drain down into the sump and then check it and add more if it needs it.

v8vroom wrote:

What concerns me is that my car does not display “oil pressure low”, yet the dipstick shows nothing. It doesn’t help that the car was on a minuscule incline, but the engine was cold for an hour, so I’m not sure what to trust.

There is no display for Oil Pressure Low, only the light, and if nothing is shown on the dipstick, you've got no oil in it!! It should show between the two notches, the top one being Max and the bottom one being Min. Any less than that and I am not surprised you have tappet rattle. The oil is circulated around the engine so once the top end is being lubricated and the hydraulic tappets filled, you've got nothing left! Fill it up to the Max notch. What oil you use is pretty much irrelevant if you don't put enough in it.

The only time the "oil pressure low" light illuminated was when I was going downhill and taking a roundabout at a bit of speed. Never has it come on since.

That's because you have very little oil in it and a combination of downhill and turning meant there was nothing left in the sump for the oil pump to pick up. Keep running it like that and you will very soon be looking at another engine rebuild.

It also doesn’t help that the previous owner didn’t include a temperature sensor when upgrading the header tank, albeit being a better material.

There never was a temperature sensor on the header tank, the temperature sensor is on the top of the inlet manifold. It is two sensors in one housing, one to feed the engine ECU (the temperature you see from OBD) and one to feed the temperature gauge on the dash.

@p73990
Thanks for a reply from another boat owner. My boat has a 1996, 4.3, V6 Mercruiser which is 3/4 of the same engine as yours (or 3/4 of the 350 version of your engine anyway). Being a '96 it is the Vortec version with roller followers. It was bought by me described as cosmetically perfect but with a blown engine (so right up my street). Engine had been run out of the water so both heads were cracked, 1 piston burnt and 3 bores badly scored. Engine has been rebuilt (replacement heads, bored to +30 thou, new camshaft bearings, crank ground, new oil pump, etc) so as everything was new I put cheap 15W-40 semi synthetic in it. Now it has been run for a few hours and is loosening up nicely, I will drain that out and put something else in. Do I need to worry about ZDDP additives or can I carry on with the semi or even a full synthetic? When the same engine is fitted into a 1/2 ton Chevy truck, they recommend 5W-30 but I'd far rather use something a bit thicker in the boat.

Chapter 70, Brakes - Repair - Stop Light Switch From 99MY.

It has a sort of bayonet fixing so just needs twisting out and the new one pushing in and twisting (although you do have to wrestle one of the heater ducts out of the way to get to it).

Do you have a set of the Schrader valves that fit in the ends of the pipes (these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274891528271) and a tyre pump? I've got a set that have lived in the boot of my car for many years so in event of a valve block or compressor failure many miles from home, I can put those on the 4 pipes to the 4 corners and pump each corner up individually. That at least avoids doing many miles on the bumpstops. In fact, I've got 2 sets as a former P38 owner donated a set to me recently, I could send them to you so you've at least got them if needed (or fit them and pump it up to something like motorway height and leave it). As long as the springs aren't leaking, which under the circumstances seems unlikely, they will get you home.

I've used both X8R and 4x4Airseals kits and there doesn't seem to be much to choose.

To drop to the bumpstops in 3-4 minutes, it's one hell of a leak you should be able to hear it hissing. I would suspect the diaphragm valve. Unscrew the exhaust filter and see if there is air coming out of that.

The early one looked at the amount of current being drawn by the compressor clutch (as it was driven directly from the HEVAC), the later one didn't. On a later one the HEVAC only powers the relay so doesn't check the amount of current being drawn. That is why the mod requires the resistor so it draws sufficient current to not flag it as a fault but on a later car the resistor isn't needed.

I was expecting an update on the EAS Clive......

The set I have is the big one with lots of different sized cups (at least half of which have never been used) and the big G clamp. I haven't managed to bend it yet, despite using a 4 foot bar on the 3/4" drive socket on the end of it. I got lots of pressure on then used a MAPP gas torch on the housing and it lets go with an almighty crack. After that initial movement, they press out fairly easily. If I was anticipating doing them regularly, I'd probably invest in a hydraulic one though.

RAVE says to use Silicone grease on the ABS sensors which is what I always use, but only because I've got a tube of it.....

Bolt wrote:

The first set only lasted 215k miles! (How many sets have you been through Gilbert?)

Been changed once at about 300k so likely to need doing again in the next year or two. Did them on the Ascot before selling it and got to do them on the red 4.0SE when I get time. They don't seem to have much slack in them but the boots are perished and split so were an advisory on the last MoT (should really have been a fail but as the tester knows me his comment was, "I'll put them down as an advisory as I know you'll do them"). I've got them, just waiting for a spare day or two. The first set I did, I spent a weekend at it and did one side a day. To be perfectly honest, getting the ABS sensor out without destroying it is the hardest part of the job.

Glad I do all my own work as I imagine the current crop of ham fisted shop apes could really screw up the job!

After being quoted £420 to do one side by a local specialist and after a week was given a bill for £1080, it was that day when I decided that spending money on the correct tools and doing it myself was far cheaper that paying someone else to balls it up. I also work on the principle that if I do a job and have to bodge it for one reason or another, I know it has been bodged so know why if it fails. If I've paid someone else to do it and they've bodged it and it fails, I've no idea where to start.

Start it up and see how long it takes to rise up to standard height and then see how long it is before the compressor shuts off. Once up to standard, switch off and pull fuse 29 (assuming a Thor, fuse 44 if GEMS). That will stop it from self levelling and is a lot easier to get at than grovelling under the passenger seat trying to find the timer relay. Then wait and see what happens. That will tell you if it is one corner dropping due to an air spring leak or something common to all corners.

When you put a fuse in position 11, it puts the transfer case into neutral so while being towed, only the transfer case is turning, not the gearbox. The gearbox oil pump is immediately behind the torque converter so is turned all the time the engine is running. So with the engine not running but the car moving, it has no lubrication.

You've got 3 sources of a click. There's a very light click from a relay dropping out in the BeCM (so that will be a click from under the seat), there's a click from the starter motor relay (relay 16) in the underbonnet fusebox and there should be a louder click from the starter solenoid. Fuse 40 supplies the starter relay and the EAS compressor. If the starter solenoid is pulling in but the starter doesn't turn, then it is new starter time.

As for towing without a fuse in 11, how far did you tow it? It won't affect starting but the gearbox won't have liked it as it will have been turning but without the pump running so it will have no lubrication.

That's what I intend to do and if it was local would have done it already. It's just that the 600 mile round trip and Dover-Calais ferry make it expensive to go over and not find the cure.....

My initial thought was earths but I would expect any iffy earth to be good when damp and not when dry and this fault only occurs when it is cold and damp. The fact that when I first looked at it, pulling the RH kick panel connector apart and reconnecting it cured the fault for a while, suggests I disturbed something in that area. It all seems to point towards the most likely cause being a fault in the wiring under the sill plate and damp is either putting a high resistance earth on a wire or two or it is putting a high resistance short between two (or more) of the wires. That would explain it starting to work again once the car interior has warmed up and it doesn't do it during the summer.

It may well have different earth points, even though the ETM doesn't show that much difference. But of course here I am looking at a third alternative, not Bosch, not GEMS but late diesel. Although I can't see them being that different, they used the same bodyshell so you would expect earth points to be in the same places.

Tried mine again this evening. Unplugged it at the BeCM, nothing on the dash. Waited a good 3 minutes and nothing changed, still no lights. So it does seem that pre and post 99 are slightly different.

Thanks Tom, that's interesting. I didn't notice if the lights all came on immediately or slowly. As the car is LHD and I was poking about at the BeCM on the RHS, I only noticed them when the plug had been pulled for a few seconds at least. I've just tried another test with the cluster on the bench. 8 of the 16 wires at the connector at the BeCM carry data. Fortunately the BeCM SID also gives the pin outs for the instrument cluster so I could work out which ones. It uses serial data and there's a clock, a direction signal, data and a data ground. These are doubled up so there is a pair of each. If I ground the data ground pins and turn the power on, nothing happens, no lights, no nothing. If I then disconnect the data grounds with the power still on, the lights all come on, slowly lighting up gradually until all of them are on. So similar to what you are seeing although after about 10-15 seconds or so, they were all lit up.

I'll have another go on my car tomorrow and see if it lights up gradually. That is one thing I didn't do. I pulled the plug at the BeCM, looked at the dash, saw no lights so plugged it in again. If all else fails, I'm going to backprobe the connections at the cluster on mine with the ignition off and with it on and engine running. I've got a cheapo Chinese graphical multimeter that should allow me to see the data on the data lines.

An interesting extra is that the owner of the car has sent me a video. While driving, and before the dash wakes up and starts working, there is a whistle coming from the dash which sounds like it is coming from the speaker. My first thought was that the rpm signal from the engine ECU is somehow getting into the speaker driver. But at an assumed 2,500 rpm (and the diesel ECU supplies 3 pulses per revolution to the rev counter not 4 like the petrol), that would be a 125Hz signal, but it is much higher pitched than that.

Trying to diagnose a fault by long distance so I don't have a wasted 600 mile round trip (as the car is in France) and need someone with a 1999 or later car to do a little test for me. The car in question is a 1999 P38 diesel and the fault first appeared autumn last year. When turning the ignition on, only the SRS light came on and no instruments, warning lights or the message centre worked. After the car had been driven for a couple of miles and the interior was starting to warm up, it all came to life and worked normally. At that time, having a sneaking suspicion in the back of my mind that the connector behind the RH kick panel had something to do with data to the instruments so checked that. Sure enough, a bit green and after giving it a spray of contact cleaner, the dash all came back and worked as it should again. For a few days anyway then it started to do it again and was ignored for a while. Over summer when it was nice and warm and dry it all worked fine but now it has stopped working again.

So, while passing a couple of weeks ago, I called in and chopped the connector out, soldering and heat shrinking all connections. Switched the ignition on and all I got was an SRS light..... Checked the connector at the cluster and gave that a squirt of contact cleaner too. Still the same. Consulted RAVE and found that other than connections to various other systems, all the data connections to the instruments come off one connector at the BeCM, C1280, a white 16 way connector. One of the easier ones to get to as it is under the fuse panel and nothing other than the flap has to be removed. It has a locking tab on the bottom that can be lifted with a screwdriver and the plug pulled out by its wires.

Unplugged that to see if it had any moisture in it and to give it a squirt of contact cleaner only to find that every single warning light on the dash came on. This was with the ignition off and the key not even in the ignition! Plugged it back in and all the lights went out. Turning the ignition on and we were back to SRS light only.

My theory at this point was that a wire or two had chaffed the insulation (or a mouse has been in there nibbling at it) and with some damp one of the wires has been getting a high resistance short to ground. But as it was late at night, dark, below freezing and dinner was being dished up, gave up at that point. As I had a ferry to catch the following morning I concluded that a bit more research and thought had to go into this.

So I acquired an instrument cluster from a 2000 car and did some tests. From the ETM, the instruments have permanent power on pins 4 and 14 with permanent ground on 7 and 17. My idea was to power it up and then ground various other connections one at a time to identify which one was causing all the lights to come on. So I powered it up from my bench supply with nothing other than these 4 pins connected and guess what......

Wondering if this is normal behaviour and is some sort of undocumented bulb check feature, I went outside earlier and tried it on both of my cars. With the plug at the BeCM unplugged, the dash just sits there and looks at me and doesn't light up every warning light.

Now both my cars are 1998 and the ETM is different for a 1999. The fault is on a 1999 and I'm using an instrument cluster from a 2000. As far as I was aware, a later instrument cluster can be fitted to an earlier car and has almost certainly been done by someone because they want the posh green faces even though the parts listing shows loads of different part numbers for the instrument cluster. So can someone with a 99 or later unplug C1280 with the ignition off and tell me if all the warning lights come on or not?

I'm determined to get this fixed as it has become a personal challenge but the owner needs to sell the car and a French registered, diesel, P38 will fetch 4-5,000 Euros in France whereas a French registered, diesel, P38 with an electrical problem is virtually worthless.