The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse.


RR.net main pages

The main pages (or top pages) at RR.net were a treasure trove of information, built up over many years by many contributors.

When the new forum owners took over, the top pages were locked and as a consequence could not be updated. I know that Toad, no matter what you think of him, rewrote a lot of the sections but the owners (or IT guys) in Canada in their arrogance refused to alter them.

Just recently with the new look website, the top pages have disappeared altogether. All the forum users have a stake in this, they are not just the property of VerticalScope.

However a link has just appeared on the site. Apparently a guy has saved all the pages to his Google drive.
I have downloaded as much as I can. I can open documents OK but there are still some links to an external website. It needs someone with better IT skills to see if they can be kept as one standalone document.

We should have them available on here.

opening a superlocked passenger door?

My passenger side door is superlocked I believe!

The inside handle and outside do nothing!

Even the central locking won't open it!

The tab that sticks out the cars is also Limp, doesn't feel like it does anything..

Any hints?!

Thanks chaps"

Glut of Holland and Holland versions on E-Bay

Nooging around t'Bay tonight (22/08/2019) I was surprised to find 4, yup Four, Holland and Holland versions up for sale. At prices ranging from OK I guess to pushing it.

Given that there are only 100 around in the UK that sounds a high proportion looking for new owners in a random week.


Dancing door locks - examination procedure

a friend of mine with a P38 (LHD) has told me, that he has the dancing door locks syndrome.
After some research I found three possible routes: 1) a broken wire which touches the winding mechanism of the window, 2) a micro switch in the front(?) door locks (can it be one rear also?) or 3) an error in the BECM.
Obviously 1 means pulling the door cards, wire contact should be visible
2) How can I check / find out which door lock causes the trouble or change them both anyway?
3) Any hints or tips how to check / rule out the BECM without first installing new door locks and finding it out the expensive way?
As it is LHD and the rear tail gate button is sometimes stuck is this caused by the door lock or just coincidence?
As far as I know the RH door lock controls the rear tailgate button, but as the dancing door locks are intermittent and sadly it did not happen, yet, when I was with the car, i can not correlate.
I have the RSW suite and a Hawkeye for diagnostics.

Any hints and tipps are highly welcomed!
Thanks in advance

Happy Days!!


She passed with two advisories..

Anti Roll Bar linkage ball joint has slight play offside front


It’s a Land Rover so it’s got an oil leak!

Over 20,000 miles done on Petrol no LPG fitted almost stock running. Bargain motoring and fun!

P38 Autobiography had here today

Quite a few years ago I sold a DIY LPG conversion kit for this Autobiography.

The current owner recently bought it from a guy called Karl. I'm not sure if Karl was the owner I sold the DIY kit to or if the side vents (from an L322?) were fitted last time I saw it (when I calibrated the DIY install). The current owner reckons it's been stood a year with a HG problem, he's had a 'new' engine fitted and came here today for me to check it all over (wasn't confident the engine fitter had put the LPG system back on properly). I found the calibration was still spot on, only slight issue was someone had got wires to 2 LPG injectors mixed up which was causing a momentary 2 cylinder misfire when switching between fuels.

Still looks good! I wonder if anyone here knows this car or the previous owner? I advised the current owner to join this forum.

Someone fitted a pressure gauge to the air suspension.

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The owner won't care that the reg number is visible
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Extremely tidy condition all round. Immaculate and original(?) sheepskin rugs in the rear, I didn't take a pic though.

I do have a record of fitting a new LPG ECU on this install shortly after the DIY conversion... The owner had jet washed the original LPG ECU, I can remember finding it full of water! Must have removed the ECU box top cover when jet-washing, Thor so the LPG ECU is fitted where a Gems ECU would be.

BMW M57 Swap - Into a Bosch/Thor V8 HSE *pics*

This may upset the purists... but I've had a bit of an itch to put a BMW M57 diesel engine into a P38 for a while, and after thinking about it more and more - I think its time to start work on it. This may be a lengthy first post. Doesn't really fit into oily bits or electrickery - it will certainly contain both.

My P38 has a Bosch/Thor 4.6 engine that has seen better days. It's biggest problem is a suspected crack behind the liner of cylinder #6. For over a year I struggled with coolant being pushed out random places. Each time I 'fixed' one leak, it would pop up somewhere else. After it started missing badly at startup, which turned out to be a single cylinder, I found #6 spark plug was rusting... Those that have seen the deck of the block should know there is no way coolant should be able to get into that cylinder unless its coming through somewhere very bad.

So a top hat block would be the way forward - perfectly reasonable solution. Except I had just bought my first house, and the thought of sinking circa £4k into it when all is said and done wasn't going to happen. That left me with the initial options of scrap it, put a used engine in it, or park it and leave it. Scrapping it was obviously out, and I've done the used engine thing before with less than great results. Parking it up also didn't really work as I needed a big vehicle for getting things done.

I can't remember how I got the idea, but I figured there was little to lose in trying a chemical solution... it was already buggered, even if it ended up needing a new radiator and heater matrix down the line... it would be a small price to pay against the £4k of new engine. Settled on pure water glass, which is the main part of products like 'Steel seal' etc, but purchased as the chemical it is instead of a branded product is significantly cheaper! I've lost track of how long ago that was, but its over a year and between 5-10k miles now. No coolant loss, no leaking, no rusting plug, no missing.

So while it is, for the moment, keeping its coolant in check, its most likely on borrowed time. It's still burning a fair bit of oil and chucking more of it out down the side of the engine despite having rocker and valley gaskets done when it was pulled for the shattered flex plate. Breathers aren't blocked, so I must have done something wrong with one of the gaskets.

On top of that, LPG is becoming scarcer in my area. I have only two stations that do it that are worth going to now. One is expensive, and the other is out of my way and I don't trust that either will carry on supplying it for long. When LPG goes, my usage of the RR will have to drop significantly if forced to run on petrol.

And one final nail - it is bloody slow. Marty's is certainly quicker with its new engine and high torque cam, so mine is likely now an example of a probably less than stellar engine in terms of lost ponies. I know they're not sporty vehicles, but for the size of engine, the fuel consumption, the amount of noise it makes, it just needs more power.

And as it happens, I now have a superb condition BMW M57 engine from my late E39 530D. This is a common engine swapped into various LR vehicles, including P38s. Mine is the 194hp/390nm version. Less than the "225" hp my V8 may have once had, but more torque, and this is before a mild remap. And it stands a better chance of still having near its original figure as it stands!

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Unfortunately my E39 met its demise in December of last year. No one was hurt (I wasn't even in it!), but the car was beyond repair - which became more apparent on pulling the engine. My car hit the car in front, and another hit it from behind. The front impact was so severe, despite not looking that bad, it slammed the engine backwards smashing an engine mount, and the gearbox crossmember. Despite all that... when the front of the engine was cleared and power was applied directly, it started straight up and purred like it always did. 168k on the car. I've genuinely never had to top off the oil or coolant while owning that car - and there was virtually no oil sat in the intake either like most diesels. I sorted some of the common M57 issues out in my ownership as preventative maintenance too. It had its swirl flaps taken out a couple of years ago, as well as the EGR disabled to prevent nasty intake buildup, and the oil breather was changed from a filter type that can clog to a cyclonic type etc.

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Removing the engine and everything else needed, plus anything of use/value from the rest of the car. The upside of starting with a donor vehicle like this is I have all of the necessary wiring, ECUs, keys etc - and owning the car I know the condition of things.

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What I will say is the viscous fans on these things are bloody strong. Power steering pump (further back than the fan, obviously), completely smashed... fan? spins true.

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As I said, the P38 has seen M57 swaps before, but what I have never seen is a proper write up of how it was done, what challenges needed to be overcome. What I have seen a number of examples of is bodge jobs and half-finished projects that seem to stop being updated. Probably because they came up against something that couldn't be overcome. Certainly, if starting with a manual vehicle, it is a lot more straight forward.

Alas... I have and want a working automatic. I want everything to work as it originally did inside the car. Dials, gauges, HEVAC, heated seats+windscreen, air conditioning, cruise control. I have already started work on planning how each of these needs interfacing - I will post up how I go about these. It's a Range Rover - if the toys don't work, you might as well start with a Disco.

Truthfully the only thing that currently concerns me is the auto box control. One way to go about it is a Compushift aftermarket controller. But they are expensive, and that is going to be the last resort at this stage.

Because I'm still working on my house and garden at the moment, the engine is currently sat in storage. I have the engine ECU, immobiliser (EWS), key transponder pickup and loom all inside to start work on when the weather stops play in the garden. You can have the engine ECUs reworked to programme out the immobiliser entirely, however as I have the matching ECU, EWS and key, for the time being I will packaging the three together to let the engine run. For one, its a cost I don't need to fork out for initially, and by getting it running with the original setup, if I have any problems from the first start, I know it will be something I've done, rather than someone else.

The complete loom from the front half of the E39:
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Reduced to what is actually needed to just run the engine ECU. ECU, EWS, key transponder pickup, drive by wire throttle, OBD socket:
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These will form the basis of the vehicle interface loom. The loom that powers the ECU isn't shown as I left it on top of the engine, but its self explanatory. The interface loom connects the engine ECU, the EWS and key pickup, and the drive by wire throttle/accelerator pedal. It will also have outputs for the oil light on the dash, the alternator light, CAN bus for the auto box ECU (via whatever means I come up with to interface it to the gearbox), temp gauge, engine speed, things like that.

In terms of physically getting the engine into the P38 bay, there are a couple of hurdles I believe I need to overcome.

Mating to the gearbox is going to need an adapter plate to use the 4HP24 gearbox and V8 torque converter. These are available from a place called rallyraid, though I need to email them to check if the specific gearbox I have is suitable or if I need to find a particular gearbox and torque converter to suit.

After that, one of the engine mounts can be used from an M51 I believe, but the turbo/left/drivers (RHD) side will need fabricating, and the turbo actuator modifying.

The sump will need customising. To clear the bump stops, I've seen people use half an M51 sump and half an (I think) e39 M57 sump welded together. That's no issue. I've heard of others putting extended bump stops in place... but that's janky.

Once the engine is actually sat in place and mated up to the gearbox, I'm actually not concerned by anything else mechanical. I'll need an intercooler and to move the autbox cooler. The engine oil cooler won't be needed as the engine has an oil to water heat exchanger. I'll probably change the main radiator for a GEMS style one, as the top hose outlet on the M57 is on the right/passenger (RHD) side of the engine near the top. My electric fan setup will be staying, so the viscous fan will be removed from the engine.

The air conditioning is going to need some custom pipework I suspect, but that will be a future problem.

As I said... a long first post. But that's a bit of a splurge on my current plans/thoughts/reasoning. Yes, I'll lose the V8 soundtrack, but a common rail straight 6 diesel isn't the worst sounding thing in the world. It will also sound like a diesel at idle and have a reason for doing so, unlike my current V8 :) What I'll in theory gain is power, fuel economy, and reliability. I drive my P38 daily currently, and while I'm not worried about it letting me down at random - I can't help but think I'd have more confidence in the BMW engine.

Another new member

I stumbled on this site a few weeks ago when I was trying to search a door latch issue on .net. Since then I've read through a fair percentage of the threads here, and I'd like to join. Many of the posts seem to be from people that I've found to be most helpful at .net where I've gleaned a wealth of knowledge. I've had my P38 for 2 years now. I've had quite a few vehicles throughout my life and my P38 has been my favourite to drive both on and off road. For the first year, it was probably my least trouble free car (second only to my first year with my 1963 Series 2A, which I've had for 25 years now), but I've got most of the issues sorted now. I'm an aircraft mechanic by trade so I'm not afraid of most mechanical or electrical issues, though I'm not as good with electronics. I'm not the guy with a wealth of P38 knowledge, but hopefully I can offer some helpful advice on occasion.

ABS/ Traction failure

I got "Abs/ Traction failure" today. Nanocom read the fault as "normal rotation on all wheels, incorrect air gap on RHF sensor". The rubber boot on the sensor needs replacing, but I've been nowhere near that corner for a long while, so nothing's been disturbed. I was off on a drive, so all i've done so far is give the sensor a bit of a tap with a hammer to check it was seated properly, nada.... I'll pull it out tomorrow and give it a bit of a clean, and maybe blast the port with air. Any other thoughts? If spring cleaning doesn't work then I'll prob end up getting a replacement sensor.

Tnx, Rob

Diesel water pump

I had a fun couple of hours yesterday changing the water pump on my P38.
It started leaking after I flushed it last week, not surprising considering the shit that came out of the radiator when I first got it.
There was a coppery looking paste coming out. AFAIK thats a stop leak product.

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You can see the shit in the gap for the o-ring.

Its also been replaced with a pump with a metal impeller.

Brakes shudder below 15mph

I'm having ABS activation whenever I brake below 15mph, bit of a nuisance when crawling in traffic and having to apply the brakes.
Removed the ABS relay and went for a short drive (not on main road) and the ABS activation / brake judder stopped, so to my mind that ruled out any air in the brake hydraulics.
After a few applications I lost the brakes completely - fair enough.
Replaced relay and drove without ABS fuse, again no ABS or brake judder below 15 mph but at least the brakes didn't go West.
Strangely the ABS compressor activated every second application of the brakes with the ABS fuse removed, whereas with the fuse and relay in it behaves normally - i.e. cuts in after 4 or 5 applications.

I assume the fault is with one of the ABS sensors - your thoughts ?
The 3 amigos don't show under normal driving conditions and the ABS light goes out after a few MPH as it should
2001 - 2001 P38

Wheel well leak [another one].

I am getting water into the wheel well, and I was checking this evening, after heavy rain, and the water seems to be getting in somewhere around the drivers side rear light fitting, but I can't be sure at the moment. I think that I need to get the hosepipe out and get Madam to run water over the rear door and window while I get into the boot/wheel well area. I have all the carpet and panel out of the boot area and checked the sunroof drain tubes, but they seem to be clear.

The rain water doesn't appear to be coming from the area where the rubber drain tube goes through into the wheel well, either. There isn't any sign of water running across the floor panel directly below the drivers side back window, where the RF receiver is positioned. That whole area is as dry as a bone.

I have cleaned everything out and more or less polished the area in the wheel well in the hope of seeing a water track. I have also bent the bottom edge of the bodywork, under the rear seal, as per the RAVE instructions, and put a load of petroleum jelly under the rear seal. So far it hasn't fixed the leak. I think that the previous owner had the problem because the wheel well has been painted with black paint, a bit like an underseal product. It looks like the rear seal has been replaced already because the seal has very precise cut-outs where the RAVE instruction says to cut the seal to let out the water. I would imagine that my seal is a dealer supplied item.

I could see a small water track down inside a cavity right below the rear light and a bit under where the rear power plug is, but it is difficult to tell whether the water is getting into the cavity [this cavity is the panel that runs from side to side under the rear seal lip], and also I can't see where it could exit to get into the wheel well.

When I looked at this this evening there seemed to be a damp track down the joint where the floor of the wheel well meets the side wall of the drivers side wheel well, right at the very back where the floor panel rises up the meet the panel behind the bumper panel.

A tiresome problem, and the vehicle does sound hollow and a bit rattly with all the rear carpet and panels removed.


Off-Roading tips and prep?

I didn’t want to hijack the other thread.... but I had mentioned in it that I will be going on my first off-pavement adventure in about a month. I’ve had my truck for about 2 years.... it has 167k miles on it currently. In that time, for general peace of mind (and eventual off road prep), I’ve changed the drive belt, diff fluid, trans filter/Xfer case fluid, rebuilt the EAS compressor and valve block. I’ve also replaced various cooling and vacuum hoses, plus a brake accumulator along the way. As of this past weekend, I have now flushed/bled the brakes, and have now replaced the radiator and thermostat along with fresh coolant. U joints do not appear to exhibit any play or odd movements. Mechanically, I feel the truck is about in as good a shape as it can be in. Granted, it was fairly well kept to begin with.

For spare parts, I will be taking the usual fluids, plus a spare drive belt, water pump, some hoses and the old T stat, a spare ignition coil, crank sensor, and I have spare air springs and spare air compressor, plus spare air spring hardware. Also some spare U joints. I have done the “one wheel” test to confirm the viscous clutch appears to be working. I also have a Nanocom, plus a Bluetooth OBDII scanner that gives me live data on my phone for any diagnostic needs.

For the purposes of taking it off pavement, I’ve added some front recovery points, factory brush and lamp guards, Terrafirma rock sliders, front diff/axle guard, and a rear diff guard. More protection would be nice, but as we know the aftermarket is limited, and my fabrication skills are lacking. I have obtained some 16” alloy wheels with Cooper Discoverer STT Pros (about 31”) for enhanced traction. The truck is currently riding on Bilstein shocks with what I believe to be are Arnott Gen II air springs. I bought it this way. Not sure how I feel about the Bilstein shocks, but the air springs at least appear to be in good shape but of unknown age. I try to wipe the bladders down whenever I’m under the truck to prevent any unwanted abrasions. Over the past few months I have acquired a complete set of new Gen III air springs. Was saving these as spares until one of the current ones decided to pop. But with the upcoming trip, I’m wondering if I would be better served to swap all of the new ones in? I just don’t know how kind the terrain will be to the current air springs.

I guess the point of all of my rambling is.... what else would you folks do? I have a small amount of generic off road experience as a passenger... but I’m interested to see if anyone has any P38 specific tips or driving techniques - both on the trail and anything else that might help me prep for my little adventure here. Fortunately I will be going with a local LR club... but I will likely be the only P38 present.


Wallowy Ride Shockers, Height Sensors or ...

The big red beast is showing definite "Yank Tank" wallowy ride characteristics. Seems more at rear suspension related than front. I'm pretty sure that it used to be much taunter, by big 4x4 standards anyway, but its hard to evaluate the handling of your own car as one tends to adapt. Doesn't help that the roads round here are terrible for lorry humps and similar vehicle upsetting features running more or less in the direction of travel.

Normally I'd go straight to shock absorbers but new Boge labelled "OEM" units with the correct Land Rover part numbers went on about 15,000 miles ago. Unfortunately I missed putting them in service record spreadsheet so don't know exactly when. When it stops raining I'll verify that there are no leaks but they certainly looked dry on Friday.

Rear Panhard rod got new factory bushes around the same time as the shock absorbers were changed. All the front end bushes, steering assembly bearings et al have been done over the last year except for the front Panhard rod bushes which, according to the MoT man, are in fine fettle but will be done soon anyway as I have new ones. The rear ones were certainly well past their best so the front ones must be showing their age.

I've heard that dying height sensors can give wallow issues. If so what breed to go for. Britcar show genuine Land Rover factory ones at near enough £64 and £67, cheaper than Dunlop or Britpart. Island show Dunlop about £5 cheaper with OEM quality similar prices to what Britcar wants for the factory version. At Britcar prices I'm inclined to go genuine. Obviously if it is likely to be height sensors I'll change the lot. At that age if one is past its best the rest can't be that far behind. if nothing else the arms on the rear ones are looking distinctly manky.

Anything else I should be considering remembering that all the EAS stuff has been done relatively recently. Airbags, compressor rebuild, valve block re-build and so on.



Ignition off/ headlights off

Simple enough request...lots of folks seem to have searched for the programmable solution, and failed in the past. So what's the most elegant way to achieve this? I. Insert a relay on the headlight position of the rotary switch for the lights ( and tie the relay across an ignition dpdt wire, such as the stereo's position II live), or II. Change the +ve power source for the head lights in the fuse box from a perm one to an ignition dependent, or some other....
I had a self inflicted flat battery this weekend ( ie left the lights on) and want to eliminate the risk of that again...I'm sure someone smarter than me's already cracked it

More than one alternator in parallel? Not a P38 specific topic.

Yesterday I bought a new petrol lawnmower from B&Q for £140. Got to agree with my dad's engineer mate than a complete lawnmower with petrol engine and all the other bits for that money seems ridiculously good vfm when you consider what went in to making it... Probably couldn't even buy the engine separately for that much. So I wondered about buying another just for the engine and using the engine to drive an alternator to charge a battery to power an invertor to make my own invertor generator. Alternators are cheap from scrapyards and the lawnmower engine would have enough power to drive several alternators.. So how about a high power invertor and several alternators in parallel... But are there any issues with wiring alternators in parallel?

I found my Issue......... I HOPE!




'Twas busy stripping my old motor to check all the wiring..

I have and all is well..

Until i got to the rear Amplifier....

I'll let the photos do the talking,

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The Plug....

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The Amp itself...

Oh but wait it gets better!!!

Got a bit trigger happy with dismantling.

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A tad crispy..

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Pfft a year and 1/2 looking and it was staring at me all along.... ;)

Thanks Martin.

He's gonna recieve my BeCM - Latch and other fings to go through..

Anyway thats all Gents..




Where is the...(lazy man's post)

I need to troubleshoot my cruise control. I've never had to go beyond vacuum problems before so I'm following the procedure in RAVE.

I know I'm just being lazy here but I really don't want to go tearing up the inside panels if someone can just say "no dumb a$$ it's over there".
I'm looking for the cruise control ECU. RAVE electrical component location says it's to the right of the steering column on right hand drive vehicles.
Does anybody know if they moved it to the left of the vehicle for NAS models along with the steering column or did they leave it on the right hand side above what would now be the glove box?

EAS Piston seal kit and dessicant

I'm fairly sure the dessicant in my Bordeaux is the original and even though she pumps up OK I'm thinking some new dessicant and a pump piston seal kit is about due.
Question is : Will removal of the items cause me to have to get a Nanocom guy to reset anything ?

And your newest member is.........

Greyhound5. Hello, I'll keep the intro short though as many of you will know I tend to ramble.
I've been invited here by a friend that I think many of us share a mutual admiration for from THE OTHER FORUM. The user name change isn't so much a ruse, though from the sound of it it might not be a bad idea I just got tired of using a handle that I chose at the drop of a hat rather than one that reflects something about me.

So yes I rescue retired racing Greyhounds (only one at a time now) I also have a large Mini longhair Dachshund that was my mother's until she passed a couple of years ago. Other interests include analog stereo from the 60's to 80's. I never got out of vinyl so there was no revival for me. I am stepping back into open reel tape after having gotten swept up in the digital age starting back in the mid 80's for all practical purposes. I have added a TEAC and an AKAI both full auto reverse 10.5 inch decks to my system to fill that part of my quest.

I live in the US and have had to work everyday for my money so mostly I've driven Fords with the occasional Buick thrown in, a few Volkswagens and a couple of MGs because that's what you do when you have to buy car parts quickly and inexpensively, you drive whats common.

I've always been in love with many of the old British badges. Not so much now that they have either disappeared or been sold off. I worked for British Leyland as a light mechanic back in 78-79 and got to drive many great cars. But Land Rover was one that has always been a favorite of mine.

I own three Rovers now (time for the giveaway) a 99my Range Rover S in Rioja Red. This ones been sitting in the garage for 8 years now with a destroyed motor caused by a slipped liner. A 2003 Discovery HSE7 (which I won't be mentioning in my posts) runs great unfortunately I broke a rather important piece of plastic that holds the center dash in place and haven't worked out how to fix it yet and a 99my Range Rover Callaway #123 in Niagara Grey.

Well I'll stop there. I did say I wouldn't ramble didn't I?