Could you not get a bit of copper pipe, slice in half, put over the split and sweat it on, just a thought, can’t say I’ve ever sweated onto Ali. Or if it would stick,
Apparently after a little investigation, Harris al- solder 500 will solder copper to aluminium, might be a lot easier as not so much heat needed..
and soldering will cope with the pressure. I once repaired a cracked copper pipe on a Saab AC system using a bit of Kunifer brake pipe and standard electrical flux cored solder and a blowlamp.
Soldering or sweating a patch on will certainly be strong enough. But once again the issue is going to be getting through the oxide layer for good bond on the aluminium. Had a truly miserable time about 20 years back with a roll of flux cored aluminium solder got from RS components. Presumably the proper stuff. Certainly expensive enough.
Two pieces of nice clean alloy with a 90° bend on one for the joint. Big ass electric soldering iron for the heating bit, tip about 1" x 1 1/2". First try didn't even try to hold. Fourth one was messy as hell but fairly strong. Fifth one neat and really strong! As I recall things the instructions said use an iron to tin both sides and sweat together. Open flame verboten. Still got the roll somewhere but they will probably be shovelling snow in hell before I get desperate enough for another go.
Wonder how they fix the flat alloy brackets on to the pipe?
Or maybe there is a suitable glue about these days.
Be a bit more confident with something like MuggyWeld 5 which has a flux to ensure the substate is clean rather than the retail offerings which rely on scrubbing and scraping. YouTube is impressive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niFcXRMa3d4. Its understood that all other soldering / sweating / brazing processes go better with flux so can't see why aluminium should be different. Some of the YouTube videos of MuggyWeld show good results on apparently seriously grotty pipes. Dunno where to get it in the UK tho'.
Clive
Lpgc wrote:
The splice could work, not seen those before. I'll have to see where the leak is first and check diameter, not measured it but seems wider than 3/4"
It was a while ago I brought the one I used, but i seem to remember they came in two basic sizes, each of which was able to join two different sizes (there was a coupler in each kit and 2 sets of fittings/seals to accommodate both types of pipe)
I think the flux is the main ingredient, I was a plumber for many years, I only used 1 type of flux.
It was an expensive one compared with many availabile, but I never had a joint which didn’t take.
I might be utterly wide of the mark here, but given you've got a pipe within a pipe, presumably the inside pipe is the high pressure, and the gap between the two the low pressure.. If the low pressure isn't ridiculously high, what about patching the hole with rubber, I'm thinking something like an inner tube repair patch glued on all the way around, maybe with a piece of rubber pipe slit down the middle and put over the whole thing with cable ties to give it a bit of additional support. Would be cheap and cheerful, no risk of making the problem worse, and if it holds then job done. :)
Took me a while to find the leak, it's not on the thick single pipe (with inner pipe) section, it's in an area where the single pipe has split into two pipes just a few inches before it enters the rear evaporator, the leak is on a short tightly curved section of the smaller diameter higher pressure pipe. I did order a couple of AC connectors as Bri suggested but they'll be ages before they arrive (from Singapore, just a couple of quid including shipping) so I cut my Halfords recharge kit pipe in half and attached the bit with the AC low pressure connector to a tyre valve, used compressed air to pressurise the system as Gllbert suggested. At 160 psi there was only a very slight weep of green fluorescent stuff from the narrow pipe but when I ran the AC compressor the weep turned into quite a spray. Seems the pipe has corroded / been damaged by eletrolysis from touching a metal panel while damp. On the vast majority of this model vehicle the front to rear AC pipe is one long section, on mine it comprises 3 sections. The 3 section is apparently only ever an aftermarket replacement part, to replace the original single pipe like for like the rear subframe has to be lowered but that isn't necessary with the 3 section aftermarket replacement. Disconnecting the rearmost section (with the leak) from the evaporator was a pain, the single M6 bolt that secures both HP and LP pipes had also suffered corrosion and snapped in half. Still, I managed to disconnect the pipes, then tried putting a couple of nuts on the broken bolt to torque up against each other to try to unscrew the bolt again... snapped again. I managed to drill the bolt out and re-tap the threads, so now I'm hoping I haven't damaged the evaporator by drilling.
With the rear section off I was able to better clean it up, which is when I found just how corroded it was. Still there were only a couple of little pin-prick holes so I set about trying to braze it over and thicken it up. At first the results looked really promising.. and I should probably have left it at that but I didn't! I realised that although it looked repaired I hadn't 'scratched it in' so had a go at reheating and scratching in... which is when the massive holes appeared lol! Then I tried cutting the corroded section out and brazing a bit of tightly bent 8mm copper pipe in it's place using 8mm internal diameter pipe nuts at each end rather than trying to braze copper to aluminium end on. No luck with that either and at this point it was 10pm and time I packed in.
I now have a few options - 1 drop the rear suspension and fit a full length pipe from a scappers, 2. try to source a second hand or new rear section for my 3 section setup, 3. try again to repair this pipe... Might as well try 3 first, won't hurt to try. But I'll try another tack using aluminium aircon pipe cut from a car that I'm going to scrap. One of the problems with 3 is the shape and length of the pipe, I'll have to really tightly bend the scrap AC pipe and don't know whether to still go with the pipe nut type idea or just try to butt braze the pipes together. I imagine butt brazing is extremely difficult!
I do wonder if brazing was a bad idea... If I could have used something like that two-part metal repair stuff instead, perhaps coated with a layer of TigerSeal and Jclips over the TigerSeal after it had set.
I'll add some pics when I get time.
Couple of quid is a vast improvement over the £40 odd they had shot upto. I think the ones i brought were around £20 at the time, but they appear to have become much more scarce to find now.
BrianH wrote:
Couple of quid is a vast improvement over the £40 odd they had shot upto. I think the ones i brought were around £20 at the time, but they appear to have become much more scarce to find now.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R134a-Auto-Quick-Coupler-Bass-Adapters-Low-High-Side-AC-Manifold-New-SU/183151899017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
That's what I bought. Dunno where I got Singapore from lol, must have seen Singapore on another listing. Would have just bought another charge kit from Halfords rather than pay £40 for the bare port connectors, won't need the HP connector without a proper AC machine anyway.
Lpgc wrote:
BrianH wrote:
Couple of quid is a vast improvement over the £40 odd they had shot upto. I think the ones i brought were around £20 at the time, but they appear to have become much more scarce to find now.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R134a-Auto-Quick-Coupler-Bass-Adapters-Low-High-Side-AC-Manifold-New-SU/183151899017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649That's what I bought. Dunno where I got Singapore from lol, must have seen Singapore on another listing. Would have just bought another charge kit from Halfords rather than pay £40 for the bare port connectors, won't need the HP connector without a proper AC machine anyway.
Thought you meant the splice kit actually - the address on that listing is
BEST ONLINE GOODS PTE LTD
Chris Tan
BLK 10 EUNOS CRESCENT
400010 Singapore
Singapore
Despite being listed as located in Manchester, though you should get them quicker than if they were actually coming from Singapore if they are really in Manchester.
It might say Manchester, but I guarantee there coming from Singapore, I’ve had numerous rows with eBay over sellers saying there uk based when there not.
If they actually care, items can still arrive quickly, but most don’t give a toss, once they’ve got ur cash,,
Been there, though Singapore preferable to China. Its when you come to return them the fun can begin, cost to do so is usually more than the item is worth and non-refundable. Hence why i only buy stuff from Chinese sellers at a price i can tolerate throwing it away if it doesn't work.
I bought a power steering pump for my jeep from chryslerparts.co.uk via ebay.
The confirmation email was in something Slavic and the tracking came all the way from China via every one horse town in between. The pump arrived with Chinese on the cap to tell me how to check the levels, needed custom hose bodges to fit and started leaking from the reservoir after a week.
Buy cheap buy twice
I should be old enough by now....
It isn't just on eBay. I needed an ABS sensor for my daughters Toyota MR2 Roadster. Toyota price, over £300, Eurocarparts, £275 but out of stock, www.onlinecarparts.co.uk, £19 plus a tenner postage. No prizes for guessing which I went for. Despite the .co.uk web address, they are actually in Germany and use a pensioner with a donkey and cart for delivery. Or at least with the length of time it took to arrive, it seemed like that's what they use. I'd almost given up on it when it arrived. Genuine Denso branded part, perfect fit and complete with replacement plastic clips. I've also bought stuff on eBay from sellers in China and never had a problem either.
The aircon connectors arrived so without checking I think they only came from Manchester and cost £7, seem to remember seeing them on EBay from Singapore for less than £3. I bought the brazing rods from Machine Mart Doncaster for about £35 or £40 (so very similar price to that you paid Bri).
When I get time I'll try my option 3 (in my last post) and if that doesn't work (I think unlikely it will) I've thought of an option 4... Measure it all up and see if I can get a hydraulics firm to make full length rubber/flexible separate lines for LP and HP. But could a hydraulics firm get the fitting that goes into the rear evaporator right? They're not screw on hydraulic fittings, just smooth pipes with O rings, just push in and are clamped from behind by a plate that is secured by a bolt between the pipe holes.
Morat wrote:
started leaking from the reservoir after a week.
Look on the bright side Miles, still better than if the noise was coming from the engine's bottom end lol!
Tried these http://acdoflancashire.co.uk/ ?
Maybe the Chinese merged the Yank PAS pump design with a Merc PAS pump design.. leaking reservoirs is a common Merc problem. Dunno why firms like Merc design their own bits such as PAS pumps only to make a less reliable part than well proven generic stuff that would've probably cost them less than their own design.
Lpgc wrote:
The aircon connectors arrived so without checking I think they only came from Manchester and cost £7, seem to remember seeing them on EBay from Singapore for less than £3. I bought the brazing rods from Machine Mart Doncaster for about £35 or £40 (so very similar price to that you paid Bri).
When I get time I'll try my option 3 (in my last post) and if that doesn't work (I think unlikely it will) I've thought of an option 4... Measure it all up and see if I can get a hydraulics firm to make full length rubber/flexible separate lines for LP and HP. But could a hydraulics firm get the fitting that goes into the rear evaporator right? They're not screw on hydraulic fittings, just smooth pipes with O rings, just push in and are clamped from behind by a plate that is secured by a bolt between the pipe holes.
Your best bet on the pipe for the evaporator is to get them to reuse the one you already have, if thats possible. The only pipe I've had made up (out of necessity at the time as the one on the car seemed to be an oddball one and the usual one for that car was just too wrong to make work) thats what they did (used the new rubber bits and joined the metal between old and new).
The only other thing that gets recommended elsewhere is to get a mobile A/C specialist to come to you.
On the Chinese front - If they say they are in China on the item location, then I'd expect it to come from there. When its not on is when they say its in London/Portsmouth/Manchester etc then you get a china post tracking number instead. Generally those are the ones to avoid, as if they misrepresent their location that will tend to be when the product is more likely of a poor quality. Theory also says they should get caught for import duty, but practice suggests it gets ignored most of the time. Probably due to the value in most cases being fairly low.
Been wondering if the push in pipes at the evap end are some standard size and if I could get some from a scrap car to connect to hydraulic lines somehow. The bits of pipe left on my evap end fitting are probably too short and curved to connect anything to.
Should really upload some pics and link to them here, I've already uploaded pics directly to an Elgrand forum but internet here is acting up today and I'm short on time. https://forum.elgrandoc.uk/threads/e51-rear-aircon-leak.3203/
Lpgc wrote:
Morat wrote:
started leaking from the reservoir after a week.
Look on the bright side Miles, still better than if the noise was coming from the engine's bottom end lol!
Tried these http://acdoflancashire.co.uk/ ?
Maybe the Chinese merged the Yank PAS pump design with a Merc PAS pump design.. leaking reservoirs is a common Merc problem. Dunno why firms like Merc design their own bits such as PAS pumps only to make a less reliable part than well proven generic stuff that would've probably cost them less than their own design.
I think the issue is that the Chinese produced their own Jeep Cherokees after Euro-whatever killed the 4.0 in 2001 along with the rover v8, lampredi twin cam and other classics. I'm guessing that they have a decent parts supply from local manufacturers but there are detail differences.
The good news is that the bottom end is fine :) The issue is that the engine doesn't run on petrol or LPG properly when warm (fine when cold) but if I disconnect petrol injector #2 it runs on 5 on petrol and perfectly well on gas at all temps. So for now it runs on 5 until switchover and then it's all fine. I've no idea what to do about it, but you might be getting a visit! :)
Despite cleaning some of the more obvious engine grounds with a wire brush and switch cleaner before re-attaching them without much effect I'm still clinging to the theory that it's an earth issue. The radio develops a nice crackle which appears to be engine speed related and the gearbox can get sulky on a hot day. That's definitely electrical as it changes fine when you use the gear lever.
Morat wrote:
The good news is that the bottom end is fine :) The issue is that the engine doesn't run on petrol or LPG properly when warm (fine when cold) but if I disconnect petrol injector #2 it runs on 5 on petrol and perfectly well on gas at all temps. So for now it runs on 5 until switchover and then it's all fine. I've no idea what to do about it, but you might be getting a visit! :)
Despite cleaning some of the more obvious engine grounds with a wire brush and switch cleaner before re-attaching them without much effect I'm still clinging to the theory that it's an earth issue. The radio develops a nice crackle which appears to be engine speed related and the gearbox can get sulky on a hot day. That's definitely electrical as it changes fine when you use the gear lever.
Just to say that Morat visited again the other day and I had another look at the Jeep. Found cyl 2 to be OK (Miles recently replaced number 2 petrol injector) but cyl 5 won't run on petrol, this seems to be because petrol injector 5 won't open - An injector issue not electrical issue as other cylinders will run OK if connected to cyl5 injector plug and all cylinders run OK on LPG (as long as in open loop mode..). There's also a problem with the pre-cat lambda probe, it's reading very rich (1.2volts) almost all the time which is forcing the engine to run lean due to fuel trims going full negative when it's running closed loop. It seems Miles found it runs better with a petrol injector unplugged because this immediately forces the engine to run in open loop mode thus preventing fuelling becoming too lean due to the lambda issue. One aspect of this model Jeep is that they don't switch to closed loop mode until they see lambda voltage fall to below around 0.8volts during the warm-up period (cold start extra fuelling is leaned off during the warm-up period in the usual way until a lean lambda reading then triggers closed loop mode), it took me a while to get the engine to switch to closed loop mode (because lambda read rich almost all the time but just occasionally dropped to reflect normal/lean voltage on over-run) but closed loop operation leading to very lean running then brought about the drive-ability problems. I have known bad petrol ECU's on Jeeps (interpret readings from sensors incorrectly etc) but I directly measured lambda voltage and it was the same as the ECU reading. Miles is going to swap pinj5 and fit a new lambda, I expect it should be OK then.