Hello All

I'm Henry!!

17yrs old with a LR sized hole in his life he had to fill

My first car is a 2002 Mini One

but i always fancied a Land rover as a after college side project, with the new emission law that is probably going to be enforced i looked solely at Petrol LR's and RR's

Originally i was looking for a Disco 1 v8 but the styling and rot didn't quite do it for me so i skipped them and started looking at Series landies and older defenders.

However the prices were way too steep.

I kept trawling ebay and It occurred to me how Cheap certain Range Rover were.

My eye was trained on a few

1995 4.0 SE

1998 4.6 HSE

Or 2001 Vogue.

Ofter looking at all of the above i settled on the Vogue.
It seemed like the perfect vehicle.

upon inspection the carpets were soaking. Heater Matrix O-rings probably..

quite a few scratches including a massive Dent in the rear quarter.

125k high or low mileage?

Big battery drain.

She hadn't run for months

and tbh i am/was questioning my sanity

;)
Plenty to get along with

Thanks For Having me..

A few questions

1 She is A late 2001 Vogue and the owner was swearing that the colour Monte Carlo Blue was a one of a kind colour? is it that rare?

2 Are P38 deserving of major restoration like RRC's

3 What is the difference between the Thor 4.6 and the Gems 4.6.

4 What is the difference between the "vogue" and "hse" i have seen many HSE range rovers vastly outspec the same year Vogue so what is in the name?

Finally some Pic's he he he

Bad ones First eh?
[img]https://i.imgur.com/P6dzxKSm.jpg[/img]

The above is a picture from under the rear bumper, the rear bumper mount seems to have rotted off, not ideal i know.

The bumper is being held up by a Ziptie

[img]https://i.imgur.com/NKS6NK9m.jpg[/img]

The interior is a bit of a mess..

[img]https://i.imgur.com/xeQ2CWxm.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/e4EALfEm.jpg[/img]

She has Satnav..... doesn't work..

[img]https://i.imgur.com/TBZ1ueYm.jpg[/img]

This is a Video i just uploaded but it is 10months old.

The first time she started in months.

ran rather well.

https://youtu.be/z8QvqsWNV_0

Thanks for having me and reading this incredibly long post.

Henry.

Not sure about 1 of a kind as I've seen a few out there whilst looking myself but it is a great colour none the less.

Welcome from a fellow newbie - only had mine about a month and just working through a few elements that I hope will avoid being stranded (see my intro post for details).

I'd say that 125k is about average for the year - I'd keep doing oil changes for both engine and gearbox (annually or 5k?) - having just done GB oil and filter, I can confirm that it is quite straightforward. Bit of advice - WD40 the GB sump bolts in advance and use a 1/4inch drive to undo so you can feel if they are going to give and not snap off! Also read somewhere that changing the engine oil and refilling before changing the filter keeps oil in the pick up pipe - not sure of the credence for this but it seems to make sense.

I opted for a lower spec car - no heated seats or screen and no sat nav and very limited seat electrics. IMO the satnav is more of a comedy add on these days and the rest I can happily live without. I was also lucky (?) to find a non sunroof car. I'm 6' 5" so prefer the added headroom.

Where abouts are you?

Good Luck

Also, I personally feel that the P38 is due a change of heart from the general view. It has been much maligned over the years - these are undoubtedly complex cars (although, seemingly still within the DIYer ability) and suffer from neglect very badly and have therefore developed (IMO) a much undeserved poor reputation (laugh at me later when I break down lol). I'm also restoring a 70's Lotus which suffers a similar reputation - again, they need looking after and are well crafted tools.

So - very much worth the effort to restore if you can swing the spanners yourself and invest the time and energy required to bring any car back to health.

oilmagnet477 wrote:

Not sure about 1 of a kind as I've seen a few out there whilst looking myself but it is a great colour none the less.

Welcome from a fellow newbie - only had mine about a month and just working through a few elements that I hope will avoid being stranded (see my intro post for details).

I'd say that 125k is about average for the year - I'd keep doing oil changes for both engine and gearbox (annually or 5k?) - having just done GB oil and filter, I can confirm that it is quite straightforward. Bit of advice - WD40 the GB sump bolts in advance and use a 1/4inch drive to undo so you can feel if they are going to give and not snap off! Also read somewhere that changing the engine oil and refilling before changing the filter keeps oil in the pick up pipe - not sure of the credence for this but it seems to make sense.

I opted for a lower spec car - no heated seats or screen and no sat nav and very limited seat electrics. IMO the satnav is more of a comedy add on these days and the rest I can happily live without. I was also lucky (?) to find a non sunroof car. I'm 6' 5" so prefer the added headroom.

Where abouts are you?

Good Luck

I'm down south west area. ;)

She'll be good practice as i'm training to be a motor vehicle mechanic. :)

I'm pretty good at wielding the spanners lol it's just the computer bits that i need to become proficient in. ;)

Headroom isn't an issue for me being a measly 5ft9 compard to you, lol

Can a Mechanic even afford to run a Range Rover i wonder ;)

Ah i guess i'll find out in the future,

Ah hindsight. :)

125k? Barely run in, I'm at 359k on a 98 4.0 litre on LPG. Like anything else, look after it and it will look after you. To answer your questions:

Colour isn't so much rare as wasn't that popular so there aren't many about in that colour.
Unlike the RRC the P38 does not rot away in front of your eyes. Externally the only place you will find rot is on the rear wheel arches, front lip of the bonnet and bottom edge of the tailgate. Underneath, unless they have lived somewhere harsh (like near the sea), rot is very rare except, as you have noticed, the rear bumper mounts.
GEMS signifies and engine fitted with the Lucas Sagem Generic Engine Management System and used up until the 99 model year, recognisable bu the boxy intake plenum. Thor has the Bosch engine management (no idea where the name came from) and the bunch of bananas intake manifold. This gives a longer inlet tract so improved bottom end torque.
Trim levels vary greatly and seemed to change about as often as the man fitting the interiors changed his socks. HSE and Vogue are both the top trim levels with slight variations. You should have just about every option going so far more to go wrong......

Headlining kit is £60 from Martrim (https://www.martrim.co.uk/car-trimming-supplies/range-rover-headlining-kits.php) and will take two people less than a day to do it.

Give it an oil and filter change but be wary of the filling process for the auto box (as you don't have a dipstick like the earlier GEMS engined cars do).

Things you will need to do are make sure the air suspension is working as it should without leaks. Air springs are £50 a corner from Island 4x4 and you can refurb the pump and valve block for under another £50. With a car that looks like it has been neglected you'll almost certainly have the book symbol showing on the HEVAC so you'll need to do some work there too. Hopefully you got at least two keys with it and the central locking all works on the fob as it should, otherwise it WILL lock you out and immobilise itself sooner or later.

The electronics are what mainly gave the P38 the poor reputation. Very early cars had some weaknesses which were sorted by 97 but the biggest problem is that nobody understood them. Mechanics deal with things that go up and down or round and round so electrics are, and always have been, a bit of a black art. Once you get your head around how things work they are just as simple, just don't let them frighten you.

Get yourself a copy of RAVE (see https://rangerovers.pub/topic/10-how-do-i-mend-it) and you'll find it far easier to work on than a bloody BMW Mini.......

Have a read of my post Up Coming Classic taken from Modern Classic magazine. Now could be the time to buy one as I won't at all be supprised to see prices rising especially for the ltd Edition and late models. I was lucky finding my Vogue SE but I did have to travel nearly to Southampton to collect it. This is my forth P38 and the only one in our Classic car club. We do a lot of car shows through the summer and it does generate quite a lot of interest with people. Good luck with yours and welcome to the forum.
Rob.

Than you very much for the Nice welcome Rob.

I have noticed P38 prices have firmed up.

Henry.

Gilbertd wrote:

125k? Barely run in, I'm at 359k on a 98 4.0 litre on LPG. Like anything else, look after it and it will look after you. To answer your questions:

Colour isn't so much rare as wasn't that popular so there aren't many about in that colour.
Unlike the RRC the P38 does not rot away in front of your eyes. Externally the only place you will find rot is on the rear wheel arches, front lip of the bonnet and bottom edge of the tailgate. Underneath, unless they have lived somewhere harsh (like near the sea), rot is very rare except, as you have noticed, the rear bumper mounts.
GEMS signifies and engine fitted with the Lucas Sagem Generic Engine Management System and used up until the 99 model year, recognisable bu the boxy intake plenum. Thor has the Bosch engine management (no idea where the name came from) and the bunch of bananas intake manifold. This gives a longer inlet tract so improved bottom end torque.
Trim levels vary greatly and seemed to change about as often as the man fitting the interiors changed his socks. HSE and Vogue are both the top trim levels with slight variations. You should have just about every option going so far more to go wrong......

Headlining kit is £60 from Martrim (https://www.martrim.co.uk/car-trimming-supplies/range-rover-headlining-kits.php) and will take two people less than a day to do it.

Give it an oil and filter change but be wary of the filling process for the auto box (as you don't have a dipstick like the earlier GEMS engined cars do).

Things you will need to do are make sure the air suspension is working as it should without leaks. Air springs are £50 a corner from Island 4x4 and you can refurb the pump and valve block for under another £50. With a car that looks like it has been neglected you'll almost certainly have the book symbol showing on the HEVAC so you'll need to do some work there too. Hopefully you got at least two keys with it and the central locking all works on the fob as it should, otherwise it WILL lock you out and immobilise itself sooner or later.

The electronics are what mainly gave the P38 the poor reputation. Very early cars had some weaknesses which were sorted by 97 but the biggest problem is that nobody understood them. Mechanics deal with things that go up and down or round and round so electrics are, and always have been, a bit of a black art. Once you get your head around how things work they are just as simple, just don't let them frighten you.

Get yourself a copy of RAVE (see https://rangerovers.pub/topic/10-how-do-i-mend-it) and you'll find it far easier to work on than a bloody BMW Mini.......

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Funny you should mention the Locking system, around 4 weeks ago the Drivers door lock actuator went on the fizz.

The car is currently immobilised and the door handle broke from he trying to put in the EKA code, the key just goes round and round.. grr.

The rear Tailgate button also went which as i understand is linked to the Door actuator somehow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cFxlA5n5Dg

I've watched this video a few times and i hope fiddling with the with it might coax it into working.

Also, I forgot to mention the most important thing to look after, the cooling system. Deal with any leaks immediately, make sure the water pump is perfect (if not, replace if with an Airtex one, definitely not a Britpart) and the same goes for the radiator. Overheating the engine is a sure way of killing it.

Gilbertd wrote:

Also, I forgot to mention the most important thing to look after, the cooling system. Deal with any leaks immediately, make sure the water pump is perfect (if not, replace if with an Airtex one, definitely not a Britpart) and the same goes for the radiator. Overheating the engine is a sure way of killing it.

I've put a new Rad in it, and the Water pump was done around 1 year before i bought it..

She has a folder full of expensive receipts lol

I'm guessing the previous owner got fed up of fixing it and left it under his conifer tree ;)

StrangeRover wrote:

I've put a new Rad in it, and the Water pump was done around 1 year before i bought it..

The seller told me exactly the same when I bought the SE. Unfortunately he'd fitted Britpart so the water pump started leaking after 2,000 miles and the radiator not much longer afterwards......

Gilbertd wrote:

StrangeRover wrote:

I've put a new Rad in it, and the Water pump was done around 1 year before i bought it..

The seller told me exactly the same when I bought the SE. Unfortunately he'd fitted Britpart so the water pump started leaking after 2,000 miles and the radiator not much longer afterwards......

Tbh i think proactively changing the Waterpump would be best

Cheers.

If you are going to do the water pump probably sensible to change the front crankshaft oil seal at the same time. Only a little more dismantling.

Proper tools to shift the viscous fan make life far easier. If nothing else you can feel if its shifting or not before damaging the nut. All the short cut, use what I have and hit it type methods risk damaging it if they don't work first time. I gave the shock it with a normal spanner one go then bought the spanner from Britpart and made the other tool. Britpart spanner actually fits and cheap enough not to be worth the futzing around measuring and making. Nut was sadly unhappy so it got built up with weld and hexagon re-machined. Probably would have been marginally quicker to make from scratch but I didn't feel like screw cutting that week.

Made (yet) anther head for my 4 ft stick pulley holding tool to keep the crank still whilst dealing with the nut. Official tool to expensive, after market ones expensive and don't look wonderful so I sorted one properly.

LPG makes it as cheap to run as any other car. If I did serious miles mine would get a conversion despite the nearest LPG being 20 odd miles away but at 3,000 miles per year petrol costs are no great worry.

Adopt the "do it once do it right philosophy" and old car blues won't be an issue. Its not a Morry Minor or Ford Cortina so fixing things one immediate problem at a time isn't going to fly. Too much going on under the hood. You have to deal in sub-systems.

You will need diagnostics. Get a Nanocom.

Clive

If your lock isn’t doing anything, it’s possible it’s thrown the bar, open the window and shine a torch down, might not need a latch.
But if your tailgate isn’t working it’s not looking good.
It would be unusual for yours to need the code, most Bosch systems, put fully charged battery on, leave the car alone for 30-40 mins, stick key in ignition, it will say push remote and away you go, ( remember, don’t leave key in car when connecting battery, the doors lock !)
They do water pump spanner and holders on eBay cheap enough, although must admit I’ve never needed the holder, a good wallop normally shocks it enough, especially as yours has been off I think your have no problems.

Thanks all loving this forum and the people in it BTW.

I posted this on RR.net and they had nothing to say lol

I've got the special laser tool to remove the viscous fan luckily it was easy to remove when i did the Rad.

The waterpump didn't seem to have any play, but again i believe its a britpart pump so i'll probably replace it

@Chris

I've dismantled the door and tbh it looked like someone had gone to town on the inside.

there was no foam behind the door card and the torx bolts that held the Lock actuator were mangled so i'm assuming this has been a problem before.

The Actuator works if you lift the locking mechanism manually but i believe the Microswithes have given up because all the dash says is "press key fob" and when i do nothing happens,

The RF receiver is all connected.

no10chris wrote:

They do water pump spanner and holders on eBay cheap enough, although must admit I’ve never needed the holder, a good wallop normally shocks it enough, especially as yours has been off I think your have no problems.

Depends how its been put on. Mine had clearly been hammered on good and tight. So much so that I had serious doubts as to getting it off even with the right tools. Started by carefully selecting the best pair of flats. Was one mighty heave away from some serious engineering to produce a clamp on, guaranteed never to slip, spanner device to teach it manners. Looking at the nut I was fairly lucky that the best pair of flats, which weren't that wonderful, held up against the force applied.

Over the years I've taken a certain morbid interest in seeing how far into my car Mr Unprofessional Professional mechanic has been. Regrettably many P38s have been through the "serviced too much on the cheap" process so you have to look carefully and be wary.

Clive

Clive, think I’ve come across one put on by the guy who put yours on, lol, I never tighten them, the spinning itself does a good job of that, luckily I’ve always managed to give a wallop or 2 with a 32oz technical adjuster and get them off.

If the remote isn’t doing anything it does sound like your going to need another latch, then sync the key, Marty on here does refurbished latches.
when your ready, just find him and go to his webshop.

Welcome...

Looks like a bit of a project alright, but they are appreciating in value, and they are still lovely to drive once the niggles are sorted!

Where in the South West are you? I do a fair bit with the electrical/electronics side of things and can probably give it a look over for you at some point if you like.

The key spinning is a sure sign that someone has snapped the arm off the back of the key barrel. DON'T go getting another lockset and changing everything, as it's just going to complicate things in the longrun. The back of the key barrel (where the arm should be!) can be swapped from another door handle with a bit of work - I did one for another owner awhile ago.

Latch might be OK, but can be worth swapping as a preventative thing as I'm seeing a lot of the later model ones start to have latch issues now. But in your case - at least at the moment - the key barrel is the main issue as turning the key in the lock isn't actuating the latch like it should.

Also - if you're planning on keeping it for awhile, then it's worth saving up and investing in a Nanocom - having your own diagnostics will more than pay for itself pretty quickly, and you then have it 24/7 aswell!

Marty