I'm in the process of installing LPG in my 2000 Bosch 4.6, first time so taking the steps one at the time.

I got this from a breaker as part of another deal, it came out of a totalled 4.6 Gems and the system is from 2011.

First off, where to put the injectors. I can place them on top of the plenum, they just fit under the hood as shown in the pic.

The bracket I made is not an example of fine craftmanship but it will do, the left rail has to raise over the steppermotor hose.

This is as close I can get to the inletnozzles when placed outside the plenum and will result in long tubes of about 12" , I have read not recommendable.

Another option is to place them under the bananaplenum, I can make strips to mount them to the same bolts as the petrol fuelrail.

This should result in inlet tubes of 2" max, all equal of length and a neat fit.

Disadvantage is a higher temperature and not being able to check the injectors and plugs without dismantling.

What do you guys advice? (More questions when things progress)

Mine are each side of the manifold, I know Marty repositioned his, I would personally leave where you can get to the connectors in case of fault finding. One of my injectors is lazy on switch over, takes 10 seconds till its on all 8.. Once fitted you will notice the drop in your fuel bill for sure,,

Another method that keeps the pipes short is to open out the gaps between the bananas and drop the pipes straight down. Like this This is actually the same as Morat's install and it allows the pipe length to be kept well under the 300mm maximum length. The injectors can sit on top so are accessible and don't get cooked either.

Sadly I can take no credit, but it does seem to work... well it will once I get a new MAF :)
Morat

Richard I like your idea, just have to be careful not to puncture the bananawalls, so it is Dremeltime.

(and you didn't polish your shoes)

Correct me if I'm wrong, 1 downside I see is once pipes are clamped your knackered if you wanna remove the bunch of bananas,, mine are piped into the bananas on top

Problem with fitting the nozzles in the upper manifold is that they are too far away from the petrol injectors and inlet valves. It's an easy install but far from ideal. They want to be as close to the inlet valves as possible and next to the petrol injectors is usually the best place. You are looking for no more than 300mm from the LPG injector and the inlet valve, ideally no more than 200mm, or throttle response will suffer.

I agree that you'll need to disconnect the injector pipes if you want to take the upper manifold off, but if you use something like these http://tinleytech.co.uk/shop/lpg-parts/clips-x10-for-lpg-injector-hose-5mm-int-diameter-omvl/ on the connection to the injectors, then all it needs is a pair of pliers.

Tony, not my picture so not my shoes, they belong to the scruffy bugger that converted Morat's car.

I think I only need to drill 2 holes per side, for cyl. 1 and 2 I can go along the front of the plenum and for 7 and 8 along the rear.

I measured the same length as when going through the bananawalls. Good idea!

About the clips you pointed at (good point Chris), my tubes are outside dia 12mm, I think I need larger ones?

Now I'm trying to find out what wire I have to interrupt from the petrol injectors, the loom I have is from a Gems and this is Bosch.

The drawings also state that the O2 sensors should not be connected (I found the wires though).

The guy from Vogels Autogas (supplier) I spoke to (helpful guy) said it was because the system should adjust itself too lean in case of a failure of the O2 sensor.

When I am finished he told me to give a ring to adjust the system (and report the authorities that the vehicle has basicly changed. If you don't report it is fraude of roadtax).

Normally they are only willing to report when they did the install.

Oh and you are excused about the shoes.

Clips are available in various sizes so that won't be a problem.

Injector cuts go between the ECU and injectors.

You've got two banks on the engine and two sets of injector cut wires, one for each bank, so you connect one set of cut wires to the odd cylinders and the other set to the even cylinders.

Be very careful with a Thor as the end cylinders cross over so the 4 inlet tracts on the left side don't go to cylinders 1, 3, 5 and 7, as you would expect, they go 2, 3, 5, 8. So you will need to cross the LPG injector connections over too so the correct injector fires.

O2 sensors can be connected. They don't affect the running of the LPG system, they simply allow you to see what they are doing from the screen on the laptop when connected rather than having to use an OBD reader as well to make sure they are switching.

The hoses on mine are probably a bit longer than 300mm, but don't seem to notice too much of a different in throttle response (a little bit at highway speed - accelerating from 50mph for example...

But now I've seen the 'through banana' pictures, It's kinda making me want to rip it out and do that... I have a spare Thor manifold in the garage, so maybe I'll get the dremel out later and modify that one!

Some of the newer LPG ECU's I think allow auto adaptation aswell, but I think that mostly runs off a connection to the OBD port and it then gets the fuel trims from the engine ECU from there. I can't remember if there are a couple of types that will allow auto adaptation using the O2 sensors if they are connected - but my system doesn't - as Gilbertd says it just shows the values of them when it's all running.

Wish my set of bananas looked that nice and shiny!

get ready for lots of comments about keeping your banana nice and clean,, lmao

Richard thanks for the scheme, first I will compare the colorcoded injectionwires of the loom I've got (Gems) with the ETM of the Gems and than see what colors the wires have on my engine (Thor) and find proof in the Thor ETM so I will not connect to the wrong wires.

Your remark on the Thor inlets being crossed confused me a bit, but I think you assumed I drilled the nozzles in the upper plenum. I drilled them right next to the petrol injectors to get the shortest route to the cylinders, I won't be fooled by a bunch of bananas, shiny or not (Marty!)

Marty, if you plan to go the "under banana route" there is no need to drill through the manifold since the 2 railtubes enter from the rear and the pressure controltube exits at front, that is if you have the same AEB injectorrails.

One item is missing I noticed, the coolant temp sensor, I'll give Vogels a call for a replacement

Chris my post crossed yours. Why do think I speak of "bananas" and "tubes" in multiple and not in "my banana" and "my tube" ha ha

Thinking I might grab another manifold and do mine similar to yours, mine looks a bloody mess, I thinking of running 95% of the gas supply above the engine in copper, just to tidy it up, rubber hoses going everywhere at the moment,, may I ask how the gas fittings are fitted into the manifold ? Drilled, glued ?

Drilled and tapped, M6 thread, with a blob of loctite or similar to make sure they seal and don't vibrate loose.

Gilbertd wrote:

Drilled and tapped, M6 thread, with a blob of loctite or similar to make sure they seal and don't vibrate loose.

Right. I just have alu nozzles and was a bit exuberantly with Locktite, so the occasion I had to remove the middle ones they broke off.
(The middle ones cover the bolts of the manifold to head bolts)

Heat it and turn out the old thread, next nozzle will be bronze.
The walls are rather thin, be careful.

Not seen aluminium nozzles, usually they are brass. Although still not that strong. Use a non-setting Loctite so they don't vibrate loose but can still be removed if you need to.

Morning Richard, brass is the word. It is a bit difficult to find single spares for LPG over here, they all protect their business and want to do the job themselves.

Exept Vogels, they are friendly but 140 km away from me and their webshop is a bit unclear so I prefer going there in person.
They have brass nozzles and are AEB dealer, I need the inline cooling temp sensor anyway so after the weekend I will pay them a visit.

Have a good weekend.

Tony.

Ferryman wrote:

I need the inline cooling temp sensor anyway so after the weekend I will pay them a visit.

??? You have a temp sensor on the reducer and one on the fuel rail to detect fuel temperature but not one on the cooling system. If you decided to connect the lambda sensors, don't use the grey wires, just Tee the Purple onto the lambda sensor signal wire.

I have one unused connector in the LPG loom, according to the manual there should be connected something like this:

It also switches to gas when the engine reaches a certain rev (my next question for tomorrow), that should be a double input then.