Hi Everyone. Happy New Year - not posted for a while as I've been trying to reduce my life on line - quite therapeutic (albeit not necessarily helpful to online communities!).

My 4.0 2000 happily went through its MOT in November save for having a front wheel hub assembly replaced (which I knew in advance). I have found an independent Landrover specialist local to where I work and with a part I supplied (and paid for separately) the whole lot only cost £148 which I'm pretty chuffed about after 8 months ownership and 3000 miles. Local guy is very helpful, occasionally a little vague but I can forgive that!

We have used the Rangie for taking the recent canoe purchase to local rivers (Waveney Valley is particularly good) and I am really enjoying the driving experience. The whole family love it (including 2 dogs).

With regard to the 'diesel question', my Son will turn 17 in May and will be learning to drive. I have struck on the idea that getting him a late P38 Diesel to drive will possibly be a good option as:

1. I/he should be able to insure it on a classic car policy.
2. At 6ft 8" he fits in it.
3. It will be safe and very slow.
4. It will be a little less thirsty than my Petrol Lady.
5. If it goes wrong, I have a parts bin to raid ;)

Am I bonkers in my thinking or does this make sense?
Also, apart from the common P38 issues that I'm already sort of aware of with mine, is there anything special to consider? (I assume the GEMS/THOR issue is redundant with diesels?).

Many thanks

I think the biggest cost will be insurance. If you can afford that the rest should fall into place!
Does he have any mechanical sympathy? There are some people who just won't get on with a car that needs TLC...at 17 I would have thrashed a P38 to death :(

Yes, even Classic Car insurance companies can be 'difficult' with younger drivers (and in a 2-Ton truck)

The other issue is Car Tax, £255 (Reg. before March 2001) next year, horrendous on newer Diesels after that
(hence so many for sale)... Yikes ! : https://www.nextgreencar.com/car-tax/bands/#q2

(An 'aside'; Just noted LGV's are £140 regardless of diesel/petrol; If I just paint over the side windows of my P38 would that work ?
Complaint: I see transits etc kicking out all the cr@p and yet the ordinary motorist effectively pays for this, again ? /rant off )

As for possible cannibalism: There may be less electrical commonality between the 2.5 Diesels and the 4.0/4.6 petrol, at least as far as engine components are concerned of course - it depends on what breaks first ...... !

The car tax is one issue, go for pre-March 2001 so it's on the fixed rate rather than the sliding scale based on emissions and there might be a flaw in your insurance plan. My daughter tried to get a Classic policy on a Mk1 MR2 but nobody would do it until she was 24, so they may well baulk at a 17 year old. As said, would he slow down, or even stop, if he heard a funny noise or would he just turn the stereo up and carry on?

Thanks for the feedback. Probably a non starter, although I do worry about his height. I'm 6'5" and struggle enough. Maybe an old mini with the front seats removed!

Modern cars are significantly safer f it comes to the worst case so will have a good look around nearer the time.
As to turning up the stereo and carrying on - my wife does that all the time....

Not such a bonkers idea. If my son was that age, I would rather he had plenty of steel around him instead of tearing about in a hot hatch.
Also if dad is his mechanic it makes sense. It all hinges on insurance. Try Adrian Flux which is round your neck of the woods. I use them for my modded diesel. You could register the car in your name until he is older, with him as a named driver.

Diesels are very underpowered as standard but chipping them transforms the car. Go for one from 1999 onwards.

I found recently that the best deal for insurance is mustard.co.uk. Dina's daughter, 22 years old but provisional licence holder, bought a Nissan Micra to learn to drive in. Best quote on gocompare was £3,050 if she agreed to have a telematics unit installed. Mustard came up with £800 for the same cover, no telematics and with a company you've actually heard off (Hastings). That was just over a year ago and at renewal, even though she still hasn't taken her test, an extra years NCD has bought it down to under £600.

dave3d wrote:

Not such a bonkers idea. If my son was that age, I would rather he had plenty of steel around him instead of tearing about in a hot hatch.
Also if dad is his mechanic it makes sense. It all hinges on insurance. Try Adrian Flux which is round your neck of the woods. I use them for my modded diesel. You could register the car in your name until he is older, with him as a named driver.

Diesels are very underpowered as standard but chipping them transforms the car. Go for one from 1999 onwards.

Insurance companies dont like that, esp if he is mainly using it. Its called fronting and illegal.
https://www.gocompare.com/car-insurance/fronting/
:)

So Dad makes sure he uses it the most.

When I first started driving that was how I was insured - the prices were still fairly astronomical. I think it was somewhere around £2K for my first year insured as a named driver on a 1.6 Focus.

Looked at doing the same on my dad's diesel P38 and they wanted closer to £7K! This was in 2006 when I first got my license. I had to wait a few years until my parents moved to Canada and the P38 became mine for a while.

Didn't run in to any bother even when I got in to an accident in the Focus. After that and worrying about them voiding the policy if they looked in to who used the car more etc I decided it wasn't worth the worry and got insurance in my own name - which actually turned out to be cheaper anyway!

In my experience I've found that many of the insurance "myths" aren't true. I've found insuring in my own name to be cheaper than going the named driver route, I didn't get a large reduction in costs after hitting certain age milestones and adding my Mrs to my policy put my premium up instead of down :(

From speaking to mine, more drivers will mean more cost whichever way you try to do it. It also means as your a named driver rather than the policy holder typically, that you wouldn't have any of the other benefits if they offer them (driving other cars on TPO cover for example)

every company has their own rules.

For some companies adding older experienced named drivers will bring the price down, some quite significantly. Others it makes zero difference.

When my sister in law started driving, she wanted to go on the mother-in-laws insurance as a named driver. It wasnt fronting, it was the mother in laws car and she just wanted to use it now and then. The insurer simply refused to add her, and said she would have to be put down as the main driver. Caused much hassle having to cancel and take out a new policy mid-term.

I suspect in terms of accident safety, you are very likely safer in a new car than a 25 year old landrover. Modern cars are designed to crumple and absorb the impact. They also deform in carefully controlled manners to keep the large chunks of metal away from the occupants. Clearly size still has an effect. They also have MUCH better ABS and ESP systems, which hopefully help reduce the likelyhood of getting into an accident in the first place. That said, something like a P38 isnt something that urges you on to drive quickly, so i guess that helps.

The trick is to play the insurance companies own game. A friend of mine got banned many years ago, and had obviously huge insurnace premiums upon getting driving again. He ran LOADS of quotes on different cars and had some surprising results. I dont remember the exact figures, but i remember a 2000 clio 1.2 was MORE expensive than a 2005. And a Volvo C70 was surprisingly affordable and not all that much more expensive than the clio. He ended up buying an old '96 Corsa, as thats all he could afford at the time. It was actually one of the most expensive cars he'd quoted on. Its all driven on statistics, so you need to find the loopholes.

When i started driving, a friend of a friend had a Volvo 940. At first we took the piss, we were driving Novas and suchlike, the typical "cool" cars back then, and there he was in his "grandad volvo". He pointed out it was turbocharged and had 200hp and was RWD. Significantly quicker than our crappy hatchbacks and was cheap to insure as well. He was doing it right :P

Your mate with the 940, he wasn't from Skye was he? A friend of mine's young lad started driving about seven or eight years ago (scary, someone who was a couple of years above me at school has a son in his mid-20s and grandchildren in primary school) and couldn't get insured on anything "sensible" for a 19-year-old. They sat there with eBay open in one window and one of the comparison websites open in another, trying insurance for different cars. Turned out a Volvo 960GLE was actually pretty damn cheap to insure...

no not skye, central belt of scotland.

Those old volvos do seem to be a pretty cheap option, i guess they had a name for safety back in the day, and their general image alters the typical driver which probably means their accident figures are lower than the average.

It's the same with other cars. Friend's son was trying to get insurance of a 1.1 Fiesta and getting stupid quotes. He had nothing going for him, 18 year old student with a driving licence that the ink was still wet on. Found that while the Fiesta was going to cost a fortune, he could get insurance on my friend's old Peugeot 405 diesel for sensible money. It's all done on risk, number of 18 year old students driving a Fiesta that make a claim versus number of 18 year old students driving a Peugeot 405 diesel that make a claim makes him look like a good risk. It'll be just the same with the Volvo, How many young drivers in Volvos make a claim? Not very many I suspect so statistically it looks a better risk but in reality it's because very few young drivers drive Volvos.

Mind you, getting back to the original question, how many claims have been made by young drivers in diesel Range Rovers? Again not many I suspect.

Central belt? You must be not very far from me then...?

Up a bit and to the right......

He said he's in Fife in the Radius Arms thread.

Gilbertd wrote:

It's the same with other cars. Friend's son was trying to get insurance of a 1.1 Fiesta and getting stupid quotes. He had nothing going for him, 18 year old student with a driving licence that the ink was still wet on. Found that while the Fiesta was going to cost a fortune, he could get insurance on my friend's old Peugeot 405 diesel for sensible money. It's all done on risk, number of 18 year old students driving a Fiesta that make a claim versus number of 18 year old students driving a Peugeot 405 diesel that make a claim makes him look like a good risk. It'll be just the same with the Volvo, How many young drivers in Volvos make a claim? Not very many I suspect so statistically it looks a better risk but in reality it's because very few young drivers drive Volvos.

Mind you, getting back to the original question, how many claims have been made by young drivers in diesel Range Rovers? Again not many I suspect.

No harm in putting the details of one into a comparison site to get an idea about it, worth checking both full license and provisional though.

gordonjcp wrote:

Central belt? You must be not very far from me then...?

I'm in Glenrothes :)

Most of the time if I add swmbo on to my insurance its cheaper. She still on l plates. Strange 😁