Lpgc wrote:

I have a Nissan Elgrand Jap import... Lots of confusion over whether or not it's even legal to tow anything with the import(?) but I towed my caravan to Cornwall with it...

Under the bonnet or on a door jamb you should have a plate or sticker. It will have 4 figures on it, these being (in order) front axle max weight, rear axle max weight, gross vehicle weight and gross train weight. The last one minus the third one will give the maximum trailer weight it is cerified to tow. If the plate doesn't exist, find out the vehicle weight and go on the recommended 80% of that as a max trailer weight.

I didn't think they were allowed to tow unless they are plated?

I had a few lessons, 3 iirc with J Coates, for 18t lorry. Didn't feel much different to a large van to me.
Thats just me though.

It's only goods vehicles that are plated, a passenger car (Class M1) doesn't need a VCA plate. Most Jap imports are over 10 years old when imported as that means all they need is an MoT to register them but if they are less than 10 years old they need an IVA (Individual Vehicle Approval) test. If weights are not specified by the manufacturer, then they need to ascertain what the weights are.

From the relevant part of the IVA inspection manual:

_Axle weight Calculations
9 a. Obtain the “kerbside weight” of each axle using the provided equipment
The “kerbside weight” is the weight of the vehicle as presented, with no driver or passengers, a full fuel tank, an adequate supply of the necessary oils, water, fluids etc and no load other than tools and equipment normally carried.
Note: For Unmodified Mass Produced vehicles where Design Weight requirements have been declared full fuel tanks are not required. For these vehicles the missing fuel volume should be ascertained and added to the presented weight.
1 Litre petrol = 0.74kg
1 Litre diesel = 0.84kg

b. Using the “kerbside weight” and the appropriate passenger / luggage weight, calculate (see Annex 2)
the maximum permitted weight of each axle
the maximum gross vehicle weight.
The passenger / luggage weight to be used in the calculation is 68kg in each seat (including the driver’s seat) designated for use while the vehicle is travelling on the road, plus 7kg x the number of designated seats, the weight being distributed evenly in the luggage areas.
For motor-caravans additional loads must be calculated:
10kg x the number of designated seats
10kg per metre in length
loads representing 90% full fresh water and gas tanks
For wheelchair accessible vehicles the person and wheelchair weight is assumed to be 100kg
Note: ambulances must be presented with a stretcher of the type to be carried under normal operating conditions.

1. A vehicle which is capable of towing must have a technically permissible towing mass which conforms with the information below
   Where a vehicle is capable of towing a trailer fitted with a service braking system, the technically permissible maximum towable mass of the vehicle must not exceed either of:
   the technically permissible mass of the towing vehicle, (OR, for off- road vehicles 1.5 times that mass (See note 3)
   3500Kg

Where a vehicle is only capable of towing a trailer which is not fitted with a service braking system, then the technically permissible towable mass of the vehicle must not exceed either of;
half of the mass of the towing vehicle in running order,
750kg__

So, in the case of an Elgrand or similar that was imported when under 10 years old, the weights would be calculated and entered on the IVA certificate, so it follows that for one that was too old to need to be put through an IVA test, same figures could be used. Fortunately, everything I've put through the IVA test have been European manufactured, but intended for the Russian market (don't ask....) so the test has been reasonably straightforward, addition of a rear fog light if one wasn't fitted on the right as standard, speedo showing MPH or MPH and KPH and headlights that dip the correct way.

Kind of what I was trying to say.

tanis8472 wrote:

I didn't think they were allowed to tow unless they are plated?

I had a few lessons, 3 iirc with J Coates, for 18t lorry. Didn't feel much different to a large van to me.
Thats just me though.

I drove one of these once

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyland_Hippo_Mk_II

It did not feel like a van, even unladen! Lots if fun though 😀

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/updates-4x4-trailer-flips-roof-3236455

Oops!

Hmm, 2000-2006 5 door Shogun, kerb weight 2125 kgs, from the spare wheel rack, the blue stripe on the mudguards and the perforated beams, it looks like the trailer is an Indespension CT27167, with a max weight of 2700kgs and unladen weight of 690 kgs. So the trailer was overloaded (2125 + 690 = 2815) although within the max towing weight of the Shogun pulling it (braked trailer max of 3,300 kgs). To snake enough for it to flip the towing vehicle the trailer wasn't long enough for the load so too little nose weight. As he managed to close a motorway and old bill turned up, I suspect the driver will be nicked for being overloaded......

Gilbertd wrote:

Under the bonnet or on a door jamb you should have a plate or sticker. It will have 4 figures on it, these being (in order) front axle max weight, rear axle max weight, gross vehicle weight and gross train weight. The last one minus the third one will give the maximum trailer weight it is cerified to tow. If the plate doesn't exist, find out the vehicle weight and go on the recommended 80% of that as a max trailer weight.

I haven't looked at the plate yet. It will have been over 10 years old when imported so just needed a fog light and MOT not an IVA, if it doesn't have the plate is the recommended 80% also a hard/legal rule or something that can be ignored at owners risk physically and legally? Week after next I'll be taking the caravan to Scotland and past some apparently often staffed police weighbridge spots where others towing with Elgrands have already been pulled but they were only towing small lightweight trailers so got away with it anyway. I'll be at least pushing the limits for any kind of towing limit for an Elgrand so best case scenario for me would be if there is no hard rule/legal limit for towing with the import, next best case scenario would be if it is a very grey area.

Late reply, forgot to track the topic even after I'd asked questions, was on holiday that's my excuse. On the campsite there was a Unimog 6x6 kitted out as a campervan, German number plates.

Have a look at the info from the IVA test manual I posted in post #43 (or look at the whole thing at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/738819/individual-vehicle-approval-inspection-manual-passenger-vehicles.pdf), that way you can calculate what the maximum towing weight will be. If you get pulled and can produce the relevant page of the test manual along with your calculations, they can't really argue.

Gilbertd wrote:

Hmm, 2000-2006 5 door Shogun, kerb weight 2125 kgs, from the spare wheel rack, the blue stripe on the mudguards and the perforated beams, it looks like the trailer is an Indespension CT27167, with a max weight of 2700kgs and unladen weight of 690 kgs. So the trailer was overloaded (2125 + 690 = 2815) although within the max towing weight of the Shogun pulling it (braked trailer max of 3,300 kgs). To snake enough for it to flip the towing vehicle the trailer wasn't long enough for the load so too little nose weight. As he managed to close a motorway and old bill turned up, I suspect the driver will be nicked for being overloaded......

Theres usually quite a bit of crosswind action on that bridge as well which won't have helped any, I'd suspect he would have some questions to answer at the very least.

Thinking about it.. maybe the one on the trailer was in better condition inside and out but knackered engine. Flips it on the M5 and will get the one towing written off. Buy it back and transplant the engine. Quids in!

Thanks Gilbert, have to see if I get time to digest the IVA stuff later.. Not being lazy but do you have a short answer for what the Elgrand can tow / what Bobby's take on it is likely to be if I get pulled (besides the subtracting the numbers on the plate method you described)? Fixed a few LPG issues on cars and a C class Yank RV today and now changing that rear wheel bearing I've been going on about. Half done now as long as putting the new one in goes smoothly.. Getting the drive plate off the hub is proving a bugger but is half way out now, getting the hub off the arm was a bugger before doing this bit. New bearing getting cool in the chest freezer for when I'm ready, wish I was as cool I've got a right sweat on.

Edit 1930... Bolx just realised I should've warmed the new hub bearing and cooled the driveplate lol.. Anyway, managed to split drive the plate from the old hub bearing, smash the old hub bearing up and get it's shells off the drive plate. Cleaned up the driveshaft spline (was a problem with it binding in the old bearing on removal). just waiting for the drive plate to cool. Seems the handbrake cable was attached to the drum brake actuator with a pin with circlips at each end, I was surprised it fell to bits on removal, seems because there are no grooves for the circlips in the pin. Will try replacing the pin with a cut down M6 bolt and nut.

Edit AM 23/8.. Got it done last night, all quiet now.