I've seen a few threads on coolant temps...
I haven't hooked my 4.6 up to my reader yet to check coolant temps..
What would be an acceptable range to expect?
Everything to do with the cooling system is new..
Just as precautionary maintenance!!
H
Mine runs around 90 (about a needle width above mid gauge) and the warning light is set to come on at 98. Boiling point with coolant is about 125 with a 14 pound cap.
I think now mine usually runs around 93/94 degrees (post a new rad, t/stat, ect sensor and water pump), a shade left of centre on the gauge. Bottom end of the gauge is around 85 or so, mid is 95-102. I think my light comes on a bit higher, like 103+. In an overheat IIRC the needle moves into the high range first, and then the warning light comes on. I haven't tested this recently, just based on my memory of observations of near-overheats prior to my overhaul - it often happened in slow motion - traffic jam on a high street, so I could watch the events unfold in front of me.
Rock steady at a needles width to the right of the centre mark.
New thermostat, water pump and some pipes recently.
You can set the temp that the light comes on with a Nano.
92-94 degrees, according to the Nanocom, needle is at the half way point - the one where it looks a little towards the red end when you start thinking about it. It was running cold so now it's got a new thermostat in it. That's the GEMS, went out in the Bosch (which is not mine, but I use it from time to time) -see below- the other day to find it's full of radweld or equivalent and has the cooling power of a 99p handheld fan. It swings into the red if the aircon comes on. Needs a full flush and replacement of half the cooling system and could do with a good check of the engine at least.
-Note-Can't really criticise, I only noticed it has a calibrated speedo sticker in the dash the other day, in nearly 10 years that had never ever entered my mind to think about.
What you can find with the Bosch setup, is that the themostat can be connected incorrectly. Theres a diagram of the coolant flow in RAVE that shows how it should go, but if the pipes on the top have been swapped over (as mine had when I first got it) you will get problems as the water doesn't actually get to the radiator when it should do, and you end up with the ends of the rad getting hot, but none of the rest of it. We only discovered it by luck as the previous owner had been clearly been messing with it, after we replaced the radiator to try and sort it and the thermostat (after discovering the original one was a thermostat housing with most of the guts removed, but the metal disc part still there) to find it was still overheating. was usually fine prior to that as long as you didn't drive it above 60, though it had its moments of random overheating with no real pattern beyond lifting foot off the gas was enough to put the light back out.
From memory, the way the plumbing works isn't quite how you'd expect, and effectively the thermostat opening allows flow out of the bottom of the radiator rather than opening the input to the radiator. This isn't obvious unitl you actually see the diagram which shows where the flow is directed.
Gems might be the same, don't know on that for sure.
Exactly the same as petrol freelanders.
Took me bloody ages to finally work it out.
A land rover 'specialist' fitted the updated system to the early freelander.
BrianH wrote:
What you can find with the Bosch setup, is that the themostat can be connected incorrectly.
Positive mine's up the spout somewhere - it wouldn't take a lot to mess it up if the cooling if the routing is not doing its thing right. I think the GEMS is a much more intuitive system, or it's one I'm used to as I use it daily.
tanis8472 wrote:
Exactly the same as petrol freelanders.
Mine's got a drilled out thermostat atm as a quick fix, that thing just doesn't cool (petrol one, was warned) although that's second on the list as it got a new (not transfer box but the freelander after-gearbox bit) which had exploded, so new vcu at the same time. Local garage job on account of time vs work, week later the engine flopped back off its rear mount and it ate the prop front boot off the joint. Have a new one to fit on the desk.
Intermediate reduction drive.
The updated thermostat system removes the thermostat on the head and puts a octopus thermostat on the bottom left near radiator.
Mine worked fine once I put the pipes the right way round.
One of these
i think, from what we could see that the thermostat shuts off one flow and opens the other, so drilling is unlikely to help as much as you'd hope/think. The angled feed off the top of the stat, wants to go towards the engine/water pump, the one that feeds from the T-piece pipe on the top, wants to go the the straight connection. If thats wrong (even with no real stat in place) you don't get any flow though the radiator and hence overheating issues as soon as you try to push it in any way.
Of course, if its also full of radweld that won't help either
The haynes manual for the freelander actually shows photo of it the correct way round, which was how I discovered the problem.
My dad had no end of problems with it because of that.
tanis8472 wrote:
Intermediate reduction drive.
That's the thing, might take a proper look over it today - stupid to leave it sitting there.
BrianH wrote:
Of course, if its also full of radweld that won't help either
I don't like the stuff. I'm sure it's useful somehow, but it isn't likely to exactly improve the coolant flow and if it's leaking badly enough to need it then it's not liable to work anyway. The GEMS gets a regular replacement of standard blue 50/50 - think I'd rather find and source a leak than mask it tbh. I do need to replace all the hoses which are sitting in a box waiting. Current project is looking at the water getting in (well, showing up) at low level in the boot. Got the rear carpet and insulation out at the moment - it's surprising how much can be accessed like that.
BrianH wrote:
Of course, if its also full of radweld that won't help either
I don't like the stuff. I'm sure it's useful somehow, but it isn't likely to exactly improve the coolant flow and if it's leaking badly enough to need it then it's not liable to work anyway. The GEMS gets a regular replacement of standard blue 50/50 - think I'd rather find and source a leak than mask it tbh. I do need to replace all the hoses which are sitting in a box waiting. Current project is looking at the water getting in (well, showing up) at low level in the boot. Got the rear carpet and insulation out at the moment - it's surprising how much can be accessed like that.
Me neither - I've seen someone try to use it to fix a leaking waterpump on a BMW, that lasted for about 6 months till the pulley snapped off the waterpump when it seized up. The TD5 Disco me and a mate looked at for someone he knew, had been fed a heavy diet of radweld or similar to try and sort it loosing coolant. The reason that was losing coolant was a leaky waterpump again, but fixing that only made it obvious that the head gasket had blown as a result of repeated overheating due to the leaky waterpump, It knackered the radiator as well, as it was significently blocked up when we investigated it. Plus I've never known it to actually work to cure a noticable leak.
Uhm ... my 4.6 has always been in the hotside of the things, fitting early on a scangauge allowed me to have a more precise reading all the time without the cumber-ness of the nanocom. As it was always in the 95-105 area, with peaks of 108, I assumed this was normal after reading in all places where the "wise" write, that the engine likes to hear, the leanness of the recent ECM evolutions, and the like. I never liked it though.
When I started to see how easy it was to read 120 and plus ... oh well.
Well, I will save you details of my nightmare tale, but in 2yrs and 30k km, after going through 3 t-stats, 2 water pumps, 2 viscous couplings and one fan (!!!), hoses pipes, two caps and two overflow tanks, heater rad, o-rings, plus a radiator, and COUNTLESS liters of 50/50 antifreeze mix, I can say the V8 settled in 84-90 without missing a beat, every time.
If is more than that, I am sure there is something that needs looking at.
I have also learned to deeply mistrust any other foreign hand, and they are banished from my engine bay. I make an exception only for those known engine and gearbox rebuilder, whose services someday will need. The rest, bugger off my engine!!!
I have also learned the instrument is utterly useless, and the engineers who worked the logic of the cooling system have no clue of how a thermal engine operates. The instrument is useless as it stays upright and level until 117 deg. then rises slighty. Too late! At 120 goes into the red, and the lamp comes on at 123. Condenser fans are supposed to come on controlled by the engine ECU, but their logic and behavior is a mistery, seldom I've seen them on, and I was a lot of times in the high side of things ... I made a manual switch and I turn them on when I feel comfortable doing it.
One of my worst moments, and catalyst for a change, was being stuck in summer in the border under a scorching sun with a 76IAT and 123ECT, A/C off because the ECM turns it off to save the engine, 35 deg outside, and a bothered 2yrs old baby and a VERY bothered wife.
Shortly after that mt fan blew off and disintegrated (literally), taking with it battery enclosure, pipes, cowling, radiator, t-stst, steering reservoir, gearbox cooling pipes, and some other bits here and there. That was the .... tipping point.
From there onwards I replaced most of the components myself, and I have been looking at 84-90 since.
Before, every km in hot weather or slow traffic had a vague sense of doom to it.
Curiously enough, at 270K km the engine still soldiers on ... a real champ, can't beat the RV8! :-)
SamH wrote:
tanis8472 wrote:
Intermediate reduction drive.
That's the thing, might take a proper look over it today - stupid to leave it sitting there.
BrianH wrote:
Of course, if its also full of radweld that won't help either
I don't like the stuff. I'm sure it's useful somehow, but it isn't likely to exactly improve the coolant flow and if it's leaking badly enough to need it then it's not liable to work anyway. The GEMS gets a regular replacement of standard blue 50/50 - think I'd rather find and source a leak than mask it tbh. I do need to replace all the hoses which are sitting in a box waiting. Current project is looking at the water getting in (well, showing up) at low level in the boot. Got the rear carpet and insulation out at the moment - it's surprising how much can be accessed like that.
thatll more than likely be the boot door seal shrinking with age.
i had to cut mine at the bottom to get it to seal properly and also gently bend the lip out slightly.
there is a tsb about it somewhere.
Range Rover CDS. ref: L8403bu
Issue: 1
Date: 18.03.98
AFFECTED RANGE:
All vehicles
PROBLEM:
WATER INGRESS AT TAILGATE - APERTURE SEAL
Water collecting in spare wheel stowage area.
CAUSE:
Either of the following:
· Tailgate aperture flange irregularities
· Tailgate aperture seal irregularities
· Lower tailgate hinge bolt leakage
· Upper tailgate alignment
ACTION:
- Remove tailgate aperture seal and check flange for irregularities.
Carefully
straighten any flange area causing concern and evenly bend entire length of
flange outwards towards tailgate by approximately 5 mm.
- Obtain new tailgate seal ALR8547. Referring to the illustration on page 2,
measure 520 mm outwards from the lower seal section centre line and mark
seal at these points, measure another 5 mm on from these points and mark
seal again. With a sharp knife carefully cut through the bubble section of
seal
at marked points so that a 'C' shaped section is removed to form drain slots,
(see inset on illustration).
NOTE: If modification is carried out correctly the drain slots will be hidden
under the tread plate. Fit seal to vehicle confirming that the seal is the correct way up with
seal joint
and drain slots at bottom of aperture.
NOTE: To assist seal fitment and to ensure tightness of seal to flange, the
seal should first be heated to approximately 40 0 C. This can be achieved by
placing in an oven or a container of warm water.Referring to the Workshop Manual,
Section - Body Repairs - Tailgate
Lower, remove lower tailgate hinge
bolts one at a time and apply
silicon sealant around the threads
before re-fitting.- Close tailgates and apply water via
a hose around aperture to confirm
leaks have been eliminated. Take
care not to direct hose into
extraction vents during this test.
In the unlikely event that leaks are still apparent proceed with the
following:
- Check upper tailgate profile to 'E' posts. If gaps are uneven, re-align
tailgate
with lower tailgate in open position. To correct the gaps, hinge adjustment
may be required, refer to Workshop Manual, Body - Repairs - Tailgate Upper. - Re-test with water hose to confirm cure.
PARTS INFORMATION:
ALR 8547 - Tailgate aperture seal
WARRANTY CLAIMS:
Use Complaint Code: 9J4N
Use one or more of the following SROs:
76.31.89/34 Dress aperture flange, modify and
fit new seal and apply sealant to
hinge bolts
Time allowance: 0.50 Hrs
76.28.31 Upper tailgate adjust Time allowance: 1.30 Hrs
BrianH wrote:
leaking waterpump on a BMW
That's the original reason the Bosch was given a dose of Radweld I'm told. It seems that everyone else who's driven it since sneaks a bit in 'just in-case' - The odd thing is, some people swear by it. It might be OK in a Morris with a basic cooling system and a slight leak in the radiator but even then it's a temporary measure surely not intended to be left in and added to (doubt it goes away until it's flushed out).
leolito wrote:
The instrument is useless
Genuinely a placebo I think. Or at least a vague indicator (there's no linearity to it, is there, basically could do it with a blue, green and red light for 'too cold' 'OK' and 'too hot' - or have the Peugeot type system where a light comes on and says 'STOP' when something's not right). Probably one of those things that makes people feel happier as it says it's OK most of the time. I think you're right though, it'll be overheated before the dial tells you.
My GEMS used to run at a (nanocom, cleaned comm's ports and plugs along the way, new coolant sensor for the ECU side) temperature of 72 degrees. It was doing odd things to the fuelling. The 94-ish seems a little hot, but I've yet to try a new radiator in it which I will do when the fresh hoses go on I think. Can't hurt. Also the viscous fan might be OK, might not. Need to wait for Summer with it at the current set of temperatures from the new thermostat - could be that it was fine last year but overcooling anyway. An added gauge is a very good idea. I have a laser thermometer thingy for work, but it's not going to help sitting in traffic on the motorway! The condenser fans are random on mine. The GEMS put them on itself at least once (that I noticed) when I first had it, and presumably before the old thermostat went up the swannee, after a long drive in the Summer and then stuck in a queue.
tanis8472 wrote:
i had to cut mine at the bottom to get it to seal properly and also gently bend the lip out slightly.
Bought a new one last year - it came pre-cut in the two places, measured it and it's the right places so either it'd been intended for use and prepared or (JLR bagged, eBay 'unused') came like that. I fitted that and added a smear of dinitrol round it. Re-tested the sunroof drains yesterday - fine there. When I hosed it down it's (most obviously anyway) pouring in through the upper seal and/or the two air exit-vents so I took them off and cleaned the foam etc, checked the little flappy slots were in-place (on those soft foam seals - will replace them in the summer) and had another look at the upper edge with some shoe polish to see where it seals or not. The water comes in the seal and fills the plastic wiper-motor cover rather than up and in the vents I think. Discovered the upper catch U-shaped bit wasn't tight so I've tightened it up and waiting for the rain. I haven't bent out the flange yet, and I think the lower bolts and all that rear hollow bit do need looking at.
Plan is to dry the whole car out either in the shed (currently my brother's girlfriend's 206 is in need of that - I stupidly told her I'd 'fix the roof' and there's a Freelander over the inspection pit and the Bosch has its MOT today... and I'm -futile really- trying to de-leak my old Corsa C: I don't get bored which is nice) or the Summer then to do the whole thing. Want to sort the headlining out as well, it's clearly been wet at the rear for years looking at its frame.
Really useful stuff there, cheers. I will run through the list as a handy guide. Took it into town yesterday evening but it wasn't that wet, also had had a hose in the drains etc first so a bit wet already. The metal, where it laps, can hide a fair bit to resurface later on. Would quite like to seal it all up once it's definitely dry 'inside' and see how it goes.
Despite the rain it's not actually been all that bad on the whole, leak wise. It is clear that the welded-on 'round things' under the boot sides trap water (haven't looked at what they actually are. One rusted and fell off so I welded a piece in to fill the hole) with the insulation in-place and that just acts like cavity wall fill sucking in water like vermiculite. With it all out of the car it's much easier to work on the small bits that need doing. Might even run a hoover properly over the carpet before it goes back in.
Tanis - your "cut the seal" fix... how's it bearing up? would you recommend it, and what did you use to fill the gap. Ive just remounted my old seal, but it may well have shrunk and so need a cut too
Wow, missed this. Sorry
It's not leaking anymore. Still have a damp wheel well bits the rubber grommet holes are a bit rusty.