Gilbertd wrote:

I'm thinking that somehow the ECU has been frigged so it is enabled as soon as the ignition is turned on (ECU from a Morgan perhaps?) but as soon as the key is turn to the starter position a code is sent which is wrong so it is then immobilised. Normally a ground from teh ignition switch goes to the BeCM and, assuming it is happy and the immobiliser isn't triggered, that ground is passed to the fusebox to energise RL16 and fire up the starter. So I suspect the push-button is bypassing the BeCM and applying a ground directly to RL16.

I suppose it's possible that the ECU is already enabled so it is only the BeCM that thinks it is immobilised. In which case, entering the EKA should enable it. Have you got the EKA yet?
Makes sense. My Defender is also 4.0 EFi, and no BeCM, but the EKA (and presumably immobilisation code) comes from a Lucas security pack, so the hack is definitely do-able. The magic starter switch must have been necessitated by something, but what?

I do like when I entertain a new forum. Best way to make friends i hear

I will try and go after these tips tommorow and report back as always

Results are in my fellows

Today in a very wet and windy east Yorkshire I went out to the old girl and entered the EKA code that I recently got emailed from LR

Lights flashed and in to the car I went. First thing I noticed is the LED has stopped flashing on the dash

I get the message alarm triggered on the dash but with the horn unplugged I was none the wiser.

I put the key in and started with the silver magic button. Car still ran and no more LED.

I then turned her off and sync'd the remote central locking. This again now works and the back doors are now open

They opened with a vacuum pop so I assume have been closed for quite a while.

One of the rear passenger door cards fell off as it had been pulled off. I Assume the PO had been trying to unlock the door from the inside.

He however did not have the RR-Pub behind him.

To top off a successful lunch break I replaced the starter motor relay and got rid of the silver button feed.

Turned the key and got engine disabled message, press button. It never gave me the EKA message.

So I pressed the unlock button and she fired up with the key !!!!

Want to say thank you for all the hints and tips, where to look and what to try.

Not fully sure on how the silver starter button works, but at least the original method still does.
I cant imagine sending a bolt of power to a relay terminal with the immobilizer led still flashing would be enough to start her.

I know she is an early P38 and an old girl but at least some bits of her are starting to come back to life

Plus I have the back doors open and can start putting back the door trim front and now back also

Thanks again

From what I've read, it sounds like the GEMS ECU has been tweaked so it will run without an immobiliser code. That's the only way I know of that it will start without the code coming from the BECM.

My guess is that whoever had it previously had an issue with the immobiliser kicking in, and instead of wanting to try and fix it properly (EG get and enter the EKA...) decided to do the normal "I don't do electrics" excuse of bodge the hell out of it and probably pay some silly money for the ECU to be tweaked, and then put in a start button with some household wire...

Glad you have that part of the web of madness untangled and it's working properly again!

Thanks Marty

The more I give the old girl a second look. Seeing what panels are off. Where the clips are broken. It all starts to add up.

For example the plastic clip is broken off for the fuel flap and relay pulled.

So I'm guessing solenoid is stuck or they had some other bone head idea

Least internally apart the the headlining. Most of the cosmetics can start being put back.

Give her a service on the weekend. She has im guessing been sat for over a year so will treat her as best I can.

Refurb the air system and then look to get the EAS reset. Still need to see if my old laptop is about.

I dont want to dig too much into the ecu if I csn trust it to work.

Also the key fob when I broke it open before sending it for repair. Only had 1 battery with the wrong number and a piece of tin foil to space it out.

The whole ordeal may of started at that very moment

Grizzly wrote:

Turned the key and got engine disabled message, press button. It never gave me the EKA message.

So I pressed the unlock button and she fired up with the key !!!!

Passive immobilisation is still enabled in the BeCM. If you unlock it but don't start it within 30 seconds, the immobiliser (but not the alarm) kicks in again so you need to press unlock on the fob, to turn the immobiliser off before starting it. From about 97 onwards they fitted a coil around the ignition lock that caused the fob to transmit the unlock code as soon as you put the key in the ignition so it did it for you but yours, being a very early car, won't have that. The coil regularly fails anyway so it stops working. Once you get it on the road and can get it near to someone with a Nanocom, that 'feature' can be turned off so it doesn't matter. With it turned off, once unlocked you can start it no matter how long you wait before trying to start it. It can be a bit of a pain if you unlock it to put your shopping in the boot and find the immobiliser has kicked in again when you come to start it. Admittedly, I got into the habit of pressing unlock as I put the key in the ignition anyway (as my coil failed long ago) until I got the Nano and turned it off.

Maybe there was nothing wrong with the petrol flap release. It will only open with the ignition off and if someone didn't realise that and tried opening it while the ignition was on, then it won't open so they forced it and broke the clip.

Thanks Rich

I cant find the original fuel flap relay, is it worth just looking on ebay ?

I know I have the plastic clip on my watch list, oh but I do need to find the button aswell as the button that i Imagine was to the left of the steering wheel, is now just a hole.

Also is there a feature similar to my RRS, if I unlock it and don't actually open the door. It will relock itself.

Is this part of the passive feature also

Power for the fuel flap comes from Fuse 14 but there is no relay involved (well there is but it's an internal one inside the BeCM). Button would have been in the instrument panel surround to the left. It doesn't lock as such, when you poke the button, it pops open so it isn't the same as some cars that have to be opened, it does that for you. If you take the instrument panel surround off you should find the connector for the pushbutton (black 5 way connector with only 2 wires into it, a Black and a Light Green/Grey) dangling in there somewhere. With the ignition off, it you short those two wires together you should hear the filler flap release grunt at you.

Il have a look.

The button may still be attached but under the cover somewhere

Grizzly wrote:

Thanks Rich

I cant find the original fuel flap relay, is it worth just looking on ebay ?

I know I have the plastic clip on my watch list, oh but I do need to find the button aswell as the button that i Imagine was to the left of the steering wheel, is now just a hole.

Also is there a feature similar to my RRS, if I unlock it and don't actually open the door. It will relock itself.

Is this part of the passive feature also

Yes it will relock itself after a while.

Yes, unlock but don't open a door within 30 seconds and it assumes you've pressed the button on the fob by mistake, or in your pocket, so relocks.

If your fuel flap release button is missing, for the time being you could always wire the magic silver button to the plug instead.....

Good thinking recycle what's there just incase

Brilliant !! Good work.

Gilbertd wrote:

Power for the fuel flap comes from Fuse 14 but there is no relay involved (well there is but it's an internal one inside the BeCM). Button would have been in the instrument panel surround to the left. It doesn't lock as such, when you poke the button, it pops open so it isn't the same as some cars that have to be opened, it does that for you. If you take the instrument panel surround off you should find the connector for the pushbutton (black 5 way connector with only 2 wires into it, a Black and a Light Green/Grey) dangling in there somewhere. With the ignition off, it you short those two wires together you should hear the filler flap release grunt at you.

I have a feeling when FrankHudson had his EKA issues that he couldn't open the fuel flap with the button until the EKA had been entered even if the drivers door was open, so would suspect the reason for the messing about with it is another trying to fix the symptom problem rather than a real fault as such.

Quite possibly. The fuel flap pushbutton applies a ground into the BeCM, is passed through some circuitry and operates an internal relay which then powers the release motor. So the circuitry may well not operate the relay if the system is in an alarmed state.

The fact that the immobilised car only requests key fob, and not eka, suggests that the EKA is disabled in the BeCM (although the EKA can still be used, nonetheless, as you did). That's a good thing - it would still be handy to use the nanocom to review the settings, see if they did anything else funky

Morning all

Yes it would be good to get a nanocom plugged in.

Also the message for the original key turn attempt to start the engine did ask for the EKA prior to me putting it in. I think like Rich said, that if I left it too long before jumping in and starting it. The passive immobilizer kicked in.

Possibly because I was too busy doing a victory dance in the rain because I got the led to go off and central locking to work haha

Found the fuel flap cable and it has been cut off. The multi plug and about an inch of cable the daughter found behind some plastic trim

So have that to play with and re do.

Speaking of fuel flap releases (and not wanting to hijack the thread) I have seen reference to a “cable” that allows you to manually release the door. The cable located behind the RHS tail light access panel. Is this an after market thing, or after a particular MY? Asking as I don’t see anything there that would answer that description on mine.