You've done well with the seatbelt caps! I cracked two of mine, and when I mentioned this on here Leolito said they almost always go.

I'll be looking forward to pics! I did this with a Defender headlining about a year ago. On the plus side, that's in 3 parts, on the downside it has a more awkward curve to the sides, and round the roof windows. The P38 is just 'big' - but seems to me to have fewer awkward shapes.

I sympathise with your 'willing assistant' comments! :-) My wife and son helped with the Defender roof, now he's away and it would be just the two of us. She decided that 'we' wouldn't be doing the P38 lining for the time being...!

So - be sure and post your successful pictures here!

The hardest part of the P38 headlining is the indentations where the sun visors and grab handles go, other than that it is fairly simple. When you come to trimming the excess off around the outside, don't trim right to the edge at the back above the rear side windows. That edge isn't covered by a trim or door rubber so the material needs to wrap around to give a clean edge. Same along the front at the top of the windscreen.

Hi, me again !!!

I have taken out the headlining panel, and it is looks a bit like the headlining may have been re-done previously. When I took off the old headlining there wasn't any foam rubber stuck to the panel, it pulled off just leaving a slightly sticky residue. I have the impression that when I spray adhesive onto the surface it will help by adding more "stickiness" to the panel.

The old material is a sort of velour type stuff with a flat, white material backing and a very thin layer of foam in between the front and back. Nothing at all like the roll of Oatmeal material that I received from Martrim.

I have one problem - I took out the sunroof glass to clean up the opening and reseal the glass seal, which all seemed to go OK, but when I refitted the glass and tested it for opening and closing it did the first upward rise but then wouldn't come back down. It just stayed locked open at the back.

I took the glass back out, just to check the cables etc. but everything was where it was before I started. I have had to use the key to close the roof, which it does perfectly well.

I can hear the motor clicking when I press the switch, and a message shows "Sunroof not set" [or whatever the usual message is].

When I took out the key I noticed that the display showed a message "Sunroof open" but it is closed with the key. What is happening here ?

One thing that I thought that I had read somewhere is that when using the key you have to turn it back until it locks or "clicks" or something. It was quite tight, using the key, to get the glass to move initially but now it runs backwards and forwards very easily, but I have not really tightened it up.

I used the key to manually put the glass in what seems to be the closed position and then adjusted the levels with the four screws that hold the glass in.

What anm I missing here ? I did everything with the battery still connected as it is on a trickle charger 24 hours a day.

Pierre3.

What you can see on the panel is the remains of the foam which all has to come off. Just use something like a thin wide bladed scraper. Something a bit flexible and take the sticky mess off in bands.

On the motor bit on mine when it wouldn't pick up the drive I rotated the key way anticlockwise and it dropped in but just move it too and fro until it catches. I found it is just a matter of experimenting.

Someone else may have more experience of setting the motor up correctly.

The orangy coloured sticky residue is the remains of the foam and all needs to be cleaned off. Wire brush works well too.

Can't help you with the sunroof though, only ever played with the one on the Ascot and that didn't work so I replaced the whole cassette.

Just some general pictures:

New material backing;

New material front:

Old material backing:

Old material front;

Panel front pic 001:

Panel front pic 002:

Panel front pic 003:

Panel rear:

Panel rear edge:

Pierre3.

The last pictures are of the panel with the material removed. It is just a fibreglass surface, front and back, there is nothing to scrub off ! So, I am wondering, did the later P38's have a different type of material with a cloth-type backing, or has, perhaps, the material been replaced at some point.

I don't think that the material has been replaced because the surface of the fibreglass is just the same as it would have been when it was originally laid down. I have used fibreglass, many years ago, and I know what the raw surface looks like before it is finished for painting.

On the issue of the sunroof glass; It was working OK before I took out the glass panel. I didn't do any disconnections of the drive cables, I didn't do anything to the motor. I took the glass out by undoing the four screws that hold the glass in, took out the glass, resealed the seal and refitted the glass.

I thought that I had located the glass in about the correct position in the sunroof opening and tightened everything up. When I pressed the switch the glass rose up to the first position, but then just stopped and wouldn't reverse.

First thing - does the sunroof motor lock with the T-key ? I thought that I saw something somewhere that said if you use te T-key you have to use it to "relock" the motor.

Where does the BeCM get its' open/close position message from ? Is it from the motor or is there a switch of some sort in the glass track ?

Pierre3.

Pierre3 wrote:

Panel front pic 003:

Yes, the shell is thin fibreglass mouldings sandwiching another fibre type material and the dusty orange on there is what is left of the old foam, it has disintegrated and needs to be brushed off so you are glueing to a clean surface.

There's no switches in the track, the BeCM counts the number of turns from the motor (hence more than two wires). I seem to remember there is a process for syncing the motor involving slackening it off so it can turn without moving the mechanism and letting it run from one end of the travel to the other. Don't quote me on it though and I'm not sure I got it right. Hopefully someone else will know the process better. Although locking with the manual key probably does the same thing.

Pierre3 wrote:

On the issue of the sunroof glass; It was working OK before I took out the glass panel. I didn't do any disconnections of the drive cables, I didn't do anything to the motor. I took the glass out by undoing the four screws that hold the glass in, took out the glass, resealed the seal and refitted the glass.

I thought that I had located the glass in about the correct position in the sunroof opening and tightened everything up. When I pressed the switch the glass rose up to the first position, but then just stopped and wouldn't reverse.

First thing - does the sunroof motor lock with the T-key ? I thought that I saw something somewhere that said if you use te T-key you have to use it to "relock" the motor.

Where does the BeCM get its' open/close position message from ? Is it from the motor or is there a switch of some sort in the glass track ?

Pierre3.

Apologies to the 'pub' for continually referring to my Defender work, but I haven't tackled the P38 lining yet. When I did the Defender, there was a similar sticky foam residue left on the boards - quite a lot actually. I found that a stiff brush and dustpan was the best for that - of course the P38 could be different. Though to be honest, it looks like your stuff has come off pretty cleanly. I'd want to get rid of any loose foam, but I don't think I'd be too concerned about the stickiness - you'll be spraying adhesive onto it anyway. I suppose it's possible that two different types of adhesive might not react well.... but

On the sunroof question, there is a section in the Worskshop manual about refitting and 'adjusting' the glass. Something like making sure that it's not more than 0.5mm below the roof level. Only then do you tighten the four bolts.

Then, as David says above, there's a bit in the car's handbook about turning the manual key back a quarter of a turn to 're-engage' the motor. I haven't got this far yet tbh, but David has said there's a 'feel' when it's right.

I think the setting comes from being able to run the window all the way up then all the way down and open, and then back to closed. Of course if it's not responding to the switch, you won't be able to do that yet.

Hi Donmacn, thanks for your post. I am happy enough with the headlining panel, there is no old foam stuck to it anywhere. I am of the same conclusion that it is only some sticky adhesive on the fibreglass surface and I will do more harm than good scrubbing it with a wire brush. There isn't actually anything to scrub off.

I was going back through lots of old threads on the internet, and one post of interest popped up from MartyNZ, the guy that does the switch packs and other stuff. He said that, as far as he was aware, if the display shows "Sunroof open" when it is closed then the motor needs to be reset while not being connected to the sunroof itself. I haven't been out to have a look but it seems that I have to unbolt the motor from the roof, I think then somehow disconnect the drive to the panel, and then run the motor all the way backwards and then all the way forward, then refit the motor and reconnect the drive to the glass.

Marty thinks that by doing this the motor regains the fully open and fully closed signals and should then work OK. As the sunroof worked fine, before I messed with it, as my wife said [ 😅 ], I believe that the motor is working properly.

I didn't think about looking in the driver's hand book about using the T-key to re-engage the motor. I will do than straight away, right now, immediately, and see what it says.

Pierre3.

Gilbert, thanks for your post. I believe that the orangey-colour on the headlining panel is old rusty stuff from an old problem with the sunroof. It is not foam or any sort of material, and I think that if I start rubbing it with anything abrasive then I will do more harm, the the fibreglass, than good. There isn't actually anything stuck there.

So I found the problem with the sunroof not running. I think that if you remove the glass and then move the drive cables, even slightly, then the BeCM, or the motor looses its' parameters.

The answer to the problem is to unscrew the motor from the vehicle roof [3x 8mm bolts] and pull it gently off the drive cables which sit above the motor. Let it hang on the power cable.

Put the ignition key in position 1 and, holding the motor in one hand, press the "Open" switch and let it run for about 30 seconds until it stops. It may stop/start a couple of times but eventually it should just run for 20-30 seconds and then stop. At that point press the "Close" switch and let it run again for 20-30 seconds until it stops again. This sets the "Open/Close" positions.

Refit the motor by pressing it back onto the drive cables. There is a worm drive on the top of the motor and it sits between the two drive cables and this is how the motor drives the sunroof open and closed.

The glass needs to be refitted and set to pretty close to the correct height in the sunroof opening in the roof. With the glass in position press the "Open" switch and let the roof open back fully and keep the switch held down for a further 10 seconds. Do the same thing in the "Close" action, keeping the switch pressed for 10 seconds after the roof closes.

The next bit is important. Press the "Close" switch so that the glass rises to the "Tilt" position and keep the switch pressed for 10 seconds. Then close the roof to the closed position, holding the switch for a further 10 seconds. This should have reset the sunroof parameters. If it does work first time just go through the cycle again making sure to keep the switch pressed with each operation.

I need to re-do the material on the sunshade so I decided to take it out. If you follow the instructions in RAVE it won't work because it describes taking out, on the drivers' side, two screws holding the drive cable cover, do the same on the passenger side. Go back to the driivers' side and remove 2 screws from the sunroof track. Well, there aren't 2 - there is only 1, and removing this screw doesn't allow for the track to move.

I have decided to do it the LR way, and I have removed the whole sunroof cassette. As far as I can see this is the only way to do the job properly.
Interestingly, I don't think that the sunshade will come out without removing the cassette because there are two spring metal arms on the back of the sunshade panel, and there is a bar running from side to side of the cassette which prevents the sunshade from pulling forward.

The only method is to remove this bar to release the sunshade. See the picture below;

You can see the bar sitting loose here, on top of the cassette.

So just some pictures:
The sunshade after being scrubbed;

Missing a sunroof:

The cassette on my dining room table after being assisted by my reliable assistant [even though she said she wanted to go to the supermarket], see the bar across the cassette at the back of the glass opening. This stops the sunshade from coming any further forward and prevent the sunshade from being just pulled out;

Passenger side track:

Drivers' side track:

So that's it for now. I received 4x cans of Tensorgrip T44 adhesive, high temp adhesive specially for the motor trade.

Pierre3.

Getting towards the end of this job. The headlining panel now has a new material. I am more sure than before that the headling has been re-done in the past because the adhesive spray pattern was exactly the same as mine when I started applying it !

Doing the main panel was a bit more tricky than I anticipated. Not overly difficult but tricky. Trying to avoid getting adhesive on the new material took a lot of care. Doing all the cuts for all the in's and out's was a pain, fortunately Madame had a pair of hairdressing scissors which proved to be sharp enough to cut the material into all the curves and angles.

The one real problem with my roof panel is that whoever took it out before didn't handle it very carefully, and with the new Oatmeal material glued on there are a couple of lines showing where there appear to be small cracks in the fibreglass. I am hoping that these will eventually blend in, but I will give them a bit of massaging this evening. Maybe a run over with a steam iron on low heat.

I think that an earlier owner [ there were only two previous owners before me] didn't bend the panel gently when removing it and caused it to crack the fibreglass in a couple of places at the back. Not serious but enough to show up in the new material. Hey-ho, that is life, but I am pleased to have saved over €500 by doing it myself. I can live with a few small lines if I have done it. The guy that I went to here in Ireland wanted €600 to do the job and I was providing the material.

I bought new material from Martrim for around £60 [I forget exactly how much] and the adhesive, 4 cans, cost €27 including delivery. I have stuck some soundproofing material on the open areas in the back of the car - cost €59 for 2 square metres of material called Shush Deadsound.

Just some more pictures:

Old cashmere material [loose] and new Oatmeal now glued to panel, one thing that always looked a bit odd was that the trim finishers around the sunroof was grey:

A couple of pictures of the self-adhesive soundproofing:

All I have to do now is refit the sunroof cassette, check the operation of the sunroof, and refit the headlining. And job should be Oxo.

We'll see !!!

Pierre3.

Beautiful job, well done.

Hi Gilbert, thanks for your comment. I pretty satisfied, and my assistant now says she wants a payrise !!! Now she expects me to pay her more than 85 pence an hour !! Honestly, the greed of some people.

Pierre3.

Absolutely - looks really good. Well done. I shall show this to my assistant and try to convince her that now is the time!

Nice write up and pictures Pierre. I am psyching myself up to do mine. My 12 year old grandson is going to give me a hand! I have agreed with him £5 an hour. Hope he doesn't spin it out.
I was undecided about the sound deadening panels but having seen your pics I am going to do the same as you did. I don't have a sunroof which makes it a bit easier.

One thing to watch if you don't have the sunroof is to make sure you put plenty of glue in the indent where the sunroof would be. I didn't and it hasn't stuck at that point. My excuse is it was the first time we'd ever done one.....

Good point, thanks.

Top job Pierre. Well done.

Thanks a lot for all the comments, very much appreciated. I would have really gone ahead without the advise from everybody on the forum who all gave lots of useful information.

Isn't £5 for labour a bit much. You have to give serious consideration to the labour rewards or you could be faced with unsustainable wage demands 😆.

Anyway today I decided to refit the sunroof cassette and check that everything works OK. I have the glass out so, with my willing helper, now being paid 92p an hour after a long employer/employee meeting, I got the empty cassette back in the car. No problem there then. I released my assistant as I didn't want to pay her overtime, as it is Saturday.

So, reconnect the drain tubes, check that the sunshades runs back and forth OK, a bit tight at the moment but very smooth. I checked to see that the "Tilt" position lifters are in the same position and use the T-key to raise the arms to maximum raise so that I could reconnect the lifting arms on the glass panel. Connect these arms, and connect the front hinged arms, fit screws and wind the glass back down to where I think the "Close" position in the vehicle roof would be.

Then remove the motor from the drive cables and run the motor to fully open, hold for a few seconds and then reverse, again holding down the switch at the end of the run. So far, so good. Refit the motor by pushing it up to engage the worm drive in between the drive cables, and fit the three screws to hold the motor to the cassette mounting. Give them a tighten and then run the motor. Whack, clack, whirrr whirrrr, and one side of the glass raises up, the other side doesn't. Bollo - what's happened here.

Remove the glass again, and I noticed that the mechanism that lifts the rear of the glass is at maximum lift on the driver's side but nearly down flat on the window track on the passenger side. How so, I didn't take any of these bits out, I just greased them, although I used the T-key to wind the sunroof mechanism backwards and forwards after greasing.

Get up and have a close look and I see that the pass. side mechanism is about an inch further back on the track than the driver's side. Lift of the strange covers that do a couple of things - they cover the drive cable ends, and they hold a small arm that operates a bit like an oil-well "nodding donkey" sort of action. Why are the two sides both in the same position - I have no idea, but messing about with the pass. side mechanism and it suddenly drives itself forward to the end of the track, so the same as the driver's side. PK, a big sigh of relief, but spend a further 30 minutes trying to get the mechanism cover back into its' correct position, push, twist and slide al together, ensuring I don't break any of the plastics.

Eventually, everything goes back in the correct orientation, so just check but using the T-key again to confirm that both side of the cassette are operating the same. Now to reset [for the umpthteen time, and there are plenty more times before it's finished 😅, the motor parameter, unscrew the motor from the cassette mounting, key in position 1 and run the mechanism back and f ---- no, no, wait a second - whirrrrrrrrrrrrr, click, whirrrrrrrrr. Crap, don't tell me that the worm drive has stripped.

Closer investigation reveals that the rubbish bolt fixing [a 4mm bolt into a captive rivnut] has pulled its thread and the motor isn't pulling up between the drive cables. As I remove the bolts and lower the motor the three plastic spacers, about a half inch thick to make up the space between the motor lugs and the mounting, decide to drop of the motor lugs, and as always happens Sods' Law takes over and two of the spacers disappear down under the front seats ! Therefore take off the plastic trims around the bottom of both front seats, get the torch and the telescopic magnet tool, and fish out one from under the rear seat ventilation tubes. Fish out the second one from the back of the "brainbox" under the driver's seat. Time spent - 45 minutes.

Do another parameter setting of the motor, and try to push up the motor between the drive cables, but with more force. Get the bolts back in, run the motor and - clack, clack, clack, clack. still not running the glass. Undo the first bolt and Sods Law jumps in again [he continued this several more times yet], the bolts vanishes under the driver's seat. 15 minutes later it is recovered, but suddenly another bolt holding the motor legs it too, only this time out of the pass. side door.

In the end, after 8 or 9 further attempts to run the motor, with and without the glass, a solution is decided on. A 4.5mm stainless self-tapping screw to replace each of the original bolts. Finally, finally, there is enough thread and grip to pull the worm drive in between the drive cables. Now - very carefully, and holding the breath, press the switch and, success, the drive mechanisms run backwards, press again and the mechanism comes back. Then get braver - run the mechanism all the way backwards, and back again. Success a second time.

Anyway, having spent all afternoon trying to sort this out I now have a sunroof that does actually go backwards and forwards, and tilts, but the dashboard still says "Sunroof open". For now, it will have to stay like that, but I know that I won't be happy and I will revisit it. I am hoping that it will just be a matter of disconnecting the motor, running the fully open/fully closed parameters, and reconnecting the motor. one a the PITA issues was the stupid bolts that hold the motor. I would say that they go about 5 mm through the captive rivnuts and they are stupidly difficult to get into the screw holes. At least with thicker self-tappers in place it will be easier to [a] get them back in, and [b] get more pressure and grip to pull up the motor.

One issue that I have is that I don't know where the "Stop" or "Neutral" position is for the drive arms on the track. When you press the "Close" switch, to bring the glass back down from "Tilt" there is no position by where the motor stops and puts the roof in the correct "Close" position. I had hoped that I could use the T-key to set the position manually and then use the motor to set the parameters required by the motor. But there isn't a position whereby the mechanism stops moving.

Right at this moment I have to use either the "Open" or "Close" switch to get the glass in the right position. I will have to have a rest for a few days and then think about having another look. I will not be putting the headlining back for the time being, at least until I get the glass to run to the parameters. Arrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhh.

Sorry for the long saga, you guys all probably have something better to do, like taking the dog to the vet to have him put down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pierre3.