I think their (misguided) plan is just to prevent ads. which 'glamorise' ICE SUVs.

Next -presumably- they would have to stop them being 'product placed' in Movies ?
Not sure that seeing their (obligatory) Car Chases in Sinclair C5s would work though....

Cars killed off Trams/Trolley buses, apparently:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51034523

They originally used 550v DC !

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the (currently) £12.50/day 24/7 ULEZ Charge is being extended in October too of course:
https://lruc.content.tfl.gov.uk/simple-map-of-ulez-expansion-area.pdf

davew wrote:

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the (currently) £12.50/day 24/7 ULEZ Charge is being extended in October too of course:
https://lruc.content.tfl.gov.uk/simple-map-of-ulez-expansion-area.pdf

That's an increase to about 10 times the area...

And an area that can be hard to avoid, I've seen a fair few posts and comments from people and in the effected area getting rid of their relatively newer diesels as they don't meet the required standard to drive without incurring the charge

Diesels have to be 2016 or later to avoid the charge, whereas petrols have to be post 2000 with no concession for LPG. Bristol are planning on going one better and banning diesels completely from the City Centre. The other exemption is anything with the tax class of Historic, so anything over 40 years old, is also exempt from charge.

I think Bristol ditched that plan a few months back, and are now going with the same scheme Birmingham are bringing in in June
https://www.bristol.gov.uk/streets-travel/bristol-caz/charges-and-checker

Scotland on the other hand, have the plan to ban non-compliant vehicles entirely when they bring theirs in.

Just a shame none of them give the same concessions to LPG vehicles as France, Germany, Belgium and Holland though. Classed the same as a hybrid so allowed into all the zones.

The response I got when enquiring about one of mine, was that if it was a full gas only vehice (not Bi-fuel) that it would. Can't find the email now but it was asking why one of mine was ok for the Ulez but not Birmingham when the same standard is applied to both places.

I'm suddenly motivated to get the Austin 7 on an exhaust tester before puttering round London :)

If its like the one I've seen, you'd struggle to even get the probe in the exhaust pipe as its tiny.

BrianH wrote:

Can't find the email now but it was asking why one of mine was ok for the Ulez but not Birmingham when the same standard is applied to both places.

Be interested to know which one is OK. The P38 meets Euro 3 so shouldn't be ULEZ compliant but there is obviously an error in the TfL database as it shows a 2000 or later, 4.0 litre P38 as complaint but a 4.6 isn't, even though they both meet the same standard. One other loophole was filled when they changed from the T-Charge to ULEZ. Under T-Charge an import, which doesn't have emissions data on the V5, was considered exempt, whereas under ULEZ, it isn't.

Some cities have considered making exceptions for such "Clean Air Zones", for example not charging for Private vehicles... but that can always change (of course !)....

Not sure about that 4.0/4.6 P38 difference either Richard but I would suspect there will be numerous such anomalies..

Most ULEZs are (notionally) based on NOx of course, whereby (Petrol) EURO3= 0.15g/km and EURO4=0.08g/km.

However there are Date of Manufacture classifications too, as in:
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/euro-emissions-standards/

Incidentally the upcoming London ULEZ expansion will require 750 ANPR Cameras @ £15M (plus their installation costs..)
Thus they can claim their ULEZ Revenues are (just) 'used to make our streets cleaner' - So not 'Cash-Cows' at all then (?!)

Interesting. Using the link on the RAC site, I'd have to pay in Birmingham but not in Bath.

Indeed, there are 4 types of 'Clean Air Zones':

Class Vehicle type
A Buses, coaches, taxis, private hire vehicles
B Buses, coaches, taxis, private hire vehicles, heavy goods vehicles
C Buses, coaches, taxis, private hire vehicles, heavy goods vehicles, vans, minibuses
D Buses, coaches, taxis, private hire vehicles, heavy goods vehicles, vans, minibuses, cars, the local authority has the option to include motorcycles

Bath is a 'C' Birmingham is a 'D'

Thus in Bath you can still use your car (without this Charge) even if it is used for work; Seems much fairer/sensible overall,
which is quite unusual with such schemes !

Gilbertd wrote:

Be interested to know which one is OK. The P38 meets Euro 3 so shouldn't be ULEZ compliant but there is obviously an error in the TfL database as it shows a 2000 or later, 4.0 litre P38 as complaint but a 4.6 isn't, even though they both meet the same standard. One other loophole was filled when they changed from the T-Charge to ULEZ. Under T-Charge an import, which doesn't have emissions data on the V5, was considered exempt, whereas under ULEZ, it isn't.

Found the reply I was looking for in amongst the 16k emails in my inbox, I've put the bit about gas in bold from their response below. Not in response to a P38 (not even a Land Rover in this case) but the gas bit might be of interest. Though the only gas-only vehicle I know of is Robert's Medusa from the other forum.

"Thank you for your enquiry received on 4/3/2021. Your case reference number is *.
We appreciate that you have taken the time to contact us in relation to this matter.?
It may help if I explain that the Clean Air Zone scheme is not linked to Transport for London's Ultra-Low Emission Zone and can only be found in locations outside London. However, we are working with Transport for London to ensure as much consistency as possible between our Clean Air Zone vehicle checker and the ULEZ system. We would advise all drivers to use the relevant vehicle checker for the zone they intend to travel into if they are unsure if their vehicle meets the standards.

A vehicle would need to run solely on gas to be exempt from charges. As you have advised that the vehicle runs on both petrol and LPG gas, the vehicle does not fall under the exempt fuel type and so would still be subject to Clean Air Zone charges where that vehicle type is chargeable.
The vehicle would need to meet the minimum emission standards for the zone the vehicle will travel into or within.
If the vehicle does meet the required emission standards, it would not be subject to charges.
After checking the vehicle record, I can see the Euro Status is missing.
Work is ongoing to provide an accurate result for vehicles which may have adopted a Euro standard before it was legally required to do so. You are not required to take any action at present as we are working closely with manufacturers and partners to update the results for these vehicles before the launch of the first Clean Air Zones.

If your vehicle has adopted the Euro 4 status, I would expect that it would be compliant with the emission standards of Clean Air Zones, and so would not be subject to Clean Air Zone charges.

When this information is updated, the Clean Air Zone checker will be able to provide the information to show if your vehicle is compliant or whether you would be subject to a charge when entering the Clean Air Zone.
Please check back closer to the time of the Clean Air Zone launch for this information.
I trust this is of assistance to you."

I did post something along the lines of what Davew has said earlier in the thread, but looks like in the process of "posting" it, i didn't actually press the reply button.

I would be interested to learn about any cities that will allow privately owned LPG monofuel vehicles to be exempt from emissions zone charges...
But does 'meet the minimum emission standards' (and Bri's next line quote 'Euro status') mean only certain vehicles could take advantage?

I do know that some cities (e.g. Leeds) allow LPG converted taxis to pay only the same as EV's to work in the emissions zone. It would be great if they extended this to private vehicles.

Around 18 months ago I was asked to tender to convert a fleet of 30 taxi's for use in Leeds, I quoted a lowish price per vehicle of just under £1k. The contract went to a firm in the NorthWest who charge £650 per taxi. Recently a delivery driver realised I converted vehicles to LPG, told me his mate 'is in charge of taxis' and asked if he could pass my contact details on to his mate.. Of course I said yes.. the 'in charge of taxis' bloke phoned me, he too would only pay up to around £700 to convert a taxi. At that kind of rate to convert a taxi other firms are welcome to the contracts, I'll continue converting other vehicles and will get some work in repairs when these taxis go wrong.

Maybe they are fitting single points?

The bit in the quotes above was from my query to them (which was basically why is London ok but not Birmingham for the same vehicle). I'd submitted the question using the link at the bottom of this page > https://www.gov.uk/clean-air-zones - online contact form.

The general theme of it is they are still working on it. The impression I get is the car in question was an early adopter of Euro 4 status and that seems why TFL say its ok, but the logbook for it doesn't state the Euro status. The other serivce above that Davew linked to seems to show its actually classed as Euro 3 on there.

On the lpg monofuel setup side, You'd want a decent size tank setup to be sure you weren't going to run out, with the way stations are at present round here its very unpredictable where you can get it some of the time.

Gilbertd wrote:

Maybe they are fitting single points?

Like the homemade one? - Cylinder plumbed in using a tap to control the flow and very little else. Saw it on Youtube linked from the LPG forum some time back. Think that was someone with an old Mondeo.

BrianH; Unfortunately TfL have a reputation for saying "We are considering it" as a pre-cursor to 'bad news' (so don't hold your breath wrt any LPG concessions). Their ULEZ was (primarily) supposed to discourage diesels, but, as I understand it LPG has ~5% of the NOx diesels produce. Perhaps if the various LPG organisations presented empirical evidence of that then concessions could have been made ? .... However their "LPG only" remark is their 'preference' ?

The 'joke' of course is that you pay your £12.50 and you can then drive around the ULEZ all day....!

What amuses me is that when I used to drive into London in my 15 plate diesel Renault Kangoo van, I had to pay (or my employers had to pay) the £12.50 for the privilege of polluting the atmosphere. But a number of local authorities then charged me more to park it. So because I was driving a diesel I had to pay more when the engine wasn't running as well.....

Morat wrote:

I'm suddenly motivated to get the Austin 7 on an exhaust tester before puttering round London :)

Hehe I'd have a Mk1 Granada or maybe an early Rover SDI.

Wonder if some of these £90k restored Classics will be bought by people who don't want an electric or small vehicle but want to avoid ULEZ charges...