I swapped the whole lot pumps and pipes from a 96 to a 2000 I had no problems with it they both looked the same

Gilbertd wrote:

Pierre has a late model diesel and it seems the high pressure pipe is NLA but the same pipe for the earlier one is. He's wondering what the difference is and can he fit an early pipe to a later car? The steering box is the same and if the pump is the same and in the same place, I can't see any reason why he can't use the earlier one.

the difference between high pressure pipes and low pressure is the pipe wire thickness on the power steering the high pressure one is the feed and low pressure is the return back to the resivour the reason the company is asking to see the pipes is so they can get the right PSI pipe

Thanks everyone, for all the information.

So; mad-as - thanks for the offer of sending a pipe from Australia. I will use the pipes off my own car if I go down the hydraulics manufacture route.

karlos01 - this gives me the most confidence. I think that I will order the new ones, the low pressure pipe for the late model, and the high pressure pipe for the early model, and keep the fingers crossed that it fits. Or else it may end up in the box that I have containing new parts that don't fit my particular car !!!

Richard - I have always had diesel 4x4's simply because large petrol engines are just too expensive to run in Ireland. Even my P38 costs €1200 a year in road tax alone. You can, with a compliant garage, register them as "commercial" vehicles with a crew cab, to allow for the rear seats, but you can run into trouble with the garages that do a commercial road test on them. They can report you for not actually using the vehicle as a commercial vehicle, or they may refuse to do the test. Then you also need commercial insurance, if you want to be properly legal, and there are certain passenger restrictions on that insurance. In my view it isn't worth it if you are not actually using the car for work. I did use previous Isuzu Troopers for work, but not the P38.

I don't mind not having spark plugs, distributors, and other exciting things like that, I have got used to the bang and thump of diesel !!

It looks like the end result will be new pipes, one a new model variant, and one being an old model variant. When I get them I will, hopefully, put this to bed.

Pierre3.

keep is updated @Pierre3

I know the tax implications in Ireland make diesel a more viable option, over here, with anything pre-2001, the road tax is a flat rate on engine size, irrespective of the fuel type. So on anything over 1549cc the road tax is £280 a year. I just don't like diesel as a fuel for a road car. I don't like the noise, the smell of the exhaust, the power delivery and the fact that your hands go black the instant you open the bonnet. I've had diesel vehicles provided by work, but doing a survey where the engine has to be kept running to power equipment, the smell of the exhaust fumes make me feel sick. Even worse is sitting in traffic on my motorcycle with the stench of diesel fumes drifting up inside my crash helmet making my eyes water is just another reason why I would happily see them banned. I appreciate that others like them, I just don't.

I don't mind spark plugs, far cheaper to replace when needed than diesel injectors and glow plugs and with the electronic system on a P38 petrol, no distributor to arc over, no rotor arms or mechanical advance mechanism or anything like on the earlier Classic, the system just works. £16 twice a year for a set of plugs and £30 for a set of HT leads every 2-3 years is all the attention the ignition system needs. Running a V8 on LPG makes it cheaper to run than a diesel too.

But back to the point, I can't see any reason why the earlier power steering hose can't be made to fit your car. Worst case you might need a pipe bender to adjust it so it fits but it isn't like it is anything complicated, it's just a bit of pipe at the end of the day.

Karlos01, yes, I will let you know how I get on.

I do admit that diesels are not the most "atmosphericly" [I bet that isn't a real word] friendly of engines. Yes, you are right, Richard, it is not great being behind a dirty diesel, especially on a wet, cold day when the air doesn't clear the fumes away. I have memories of driving artics through places like the Blackwall tunnel, the Queensway Tunnel [River Mersey], and the Mont Blanc Tunnel. Back in the 70's and 80's there used to be rather a lot of fumes in those tunnels, most of it caused by diesels.

Anyway, we won't be driving any of them very much if that idiot Putin has his way. Either none of us will be here any longer, or there won't be any oil coming from the Siberian oil fields, or the Putin-loving Saudi oil fields. I knew that buying a donkey was going to be a good plan, except that he has run off, the stumpy little git.

Pierre3.

oh @Pierre3
the difference between the 2 pipes IE high and low pressure is the high pressure hose feeds the steering ram and the low is returning to the resovier
the reason you was quoted that much is because with out the pattern pipe the pipe manufacture wouldn't know the PSI rating of both pipes

Hi karlos01, thanks for your information. You have it about right - the hydraulics company that I rang said that they could not guarantee the quality of the pipes, and therefore they were not interested in making up new pipes for me.

System can run at up to 75 bar so would need pipes rated at better than 112.5 bar. Probably higher than the hydraulic hoses they would normally use on a JCB or similar.

it's all to do with the metal wiring in the rubber hose and thickness of rubber that determine the psi

Gilbertd yes you see correct on the loading shovel I use the pipes are 125 bar but have 75 bar run through them

I can agree with karlos01, I had to deal with various hydraulic pipes being made up when I was driving trucks, many years ago. I started off with EF's and Seddon Atkinsons and having to get new hydraulic pipes made up was a pretty common thing.

Anyway, I have just received a large box, care of DPD, containing two new power steering pipes. I know one is a late model P38 item, the low pressure return pipe [?] and one is an early model P38 high pressure pipe. I haven't opened the box yet to see what the look like, but my supplier is very confident that the high pressure pipe from the early diesel car will fit all the same.

If the weather holds out over the weekend, giving me the opportunity of getting under the car then I will soon find out !!!

Incidentally, I will be refusing to sail between the UK and Ireland, in the future, using any ferry services by P&O ! Disgraceful performance all round, and they will probably be using Russian oil to run their ships !

Pierre3.

I've been using P&O for years and have a season ticket (fixed, cheap price, irrespective of time of year, school holidays, etc) with 3 return Dover-Calais crossings left on it. In the last year or so they have removed the restaurants so you could no longer get a proper meal on the crossing and other things that suggested they were cutting costs. Going over to Paris in the morning and was going to call them to book it against my season ticket when the news broke. They are advising people with a P&O booking to go to the DFDS check in so figured that would be booked solid and almost certainly delayed so I checked the price with Irish Ferries who have been running a Dover-Calais service since last year and have booked with them. Cheaper than DFDS and only slightly more than my pre-paid season ticket would have been but shouldn't be any problems. P&O are saying they will be back up and running in 7-10 days but I very much doubt it, I suspect they are dead and gone and even if they aren't, they will be very soon. If I can get a refund on the unused crossings on my season ticket, I'll just use that to buy a DFDS season ticket or an Irish ferries one (if they do one). I too won't be using P&O ever again either.

Pierre3 wrote:

I can agree with karlos01, I had to deal with various hydraulic pipes being made up when I was driving trucks, many years ago. I started off with EF's and Seddon Atkinsons and having to get new hydraulic pipes made up was a pretty common thing.

Anyway, I have just received a large box, care of DPD, containing two new power steering pipes. I know one is a late model P38 item, the low pressure return pipe [?] and one is an early model P38 high pressure pipe. I haven't opened the box yet to see what the look like, but my supplier is very confident that the high pressure pipe from the early diesel car will fit all the same.

they will fit weather been good today done few jobs on mine today new bonnet catch fitted and LPG system been tested out was surprised by the price compared to petrol

Got it working then? How much for LPG round your way?

80p a litre from little garage on A1065 only put 10 quids worth in just to test it out

@Pierre, if you've only just got the new pipes and not fitted them yet, how did you get through the MoT?

You can get hydraulic pipes (including PAS pipes) made up by firms such as Pirtek. I've had a few PAS pipes made up by them. Take your old pipe in complete with end fittings, they have a vast range of end fittings on the shelf and 99% of the time will have an end fitting that matches your old ones so have no trouble matching your old pipe.

Most such firms can even come up with pipes to replace sections of AC pipe.

It's a bit alarming to hear about P&O, I don't know all the ins and outs but on first consideration it doesn't seem legal re UK employment law what they're doing. I also see this as likely the end of P&O. Not that it's really relevant or an important factor but I have to wonder if this could also have minor impact on my business, because if people wonder about being able to get their LPG converted vehicle abroad in future (and since they can't take their LPG vehicles through the Chunnel) there's the possibility a minority of customers could be put off LPG conversion.

The ferries generally aren't a problem - Stenna Line say nothing about LPG and I've used them multiple times, Irish Ferries or DFDS (one of them can't remember which) Just say something about it needing to be shut off when on the ferry (Can't remember exact wording, but it didn't seem like they wanted you to manually operate the shutoff on the tank, and not something they could easily check). The impression I got at the time was that if the gas was shut off when the ignition was off then this was good enough (so the electronic valve would do this).

May be different on the routes to Europe rather than Ireland, but it didn't seem to be a problem. Might have changed in the last few years as its been a while since I've been out that way.

I can't see P&O surviving this, it seems a desperation measure as they would be forced to try and compete on price to attract any custom. Seems odd they removed the restaurants as my experience of them is theres very little to actually do on the ferry whilst your crossing and it seems an easy money maker. Though I guess a 90 minute crossing is a bit different to a 4 or 8 hour one to Ireland depending where your going from/to.

All the ferry companies are OK with LPG conversions. It's only the channel tunnel that won't take them as they aren't licensed to take them. Apparently as LPG wasn't a big thing when they were designing the tunnel they didn't get carrying LPG powered vehicles signed off as safe & now it's too much hassle & expense for them to get it done. Maybe after the P&O debacle they might open to some lobbying. If we travel Dover->Calais we always use the tunnel as it's so much simpler & a little quicker never mind nicer during winter weather. Our place is in Brittany so we always prefer to use Brittany Ferries especially the Portsmouth->Saint-Malo route. It's a 12 hour overnight trip but you get a good night's sleep & then it's under 1.5 hours drive to our cottage whereas if we go via Calais it's a six hour drive.

I too will never use P&O & agree that they will go out of business They have misjudged the outrage their actions have caused & their legal advice must have been poor. A combination of consumer boycott, picketing & the courts will ensure that they don't survive.

Richard, as you rightly supposed, I received the new power steering pipes yesterday [Saturday] and they are acclimatizing at the moment in my front room.

In Ireland, when you take a car for the annual road test, called the NCT [aka the National Car Test], you get a window disc, like a tax disc, when you pass. If you pass the test first time it costs €56 [ this figure is not dependent on whether or not you pass first time, you have to pay €56 when you book the test]. If you don't pass first time then you have to book a "Retest" and this costs €28.

So, because I failed the first time around, I had to use a bit of chicanery to pass the retest. Generally, you only get tested on the thing [s] that you failed on the first time, but you do need to be careful, they could fail you on something else !! What I did was to take the car down to my guys in the local garage and ask them to scrub the pipework with petrol and some wire wool. I then drove 4 miles to the local test centre where I had booked a retest and they inspected the work and passed the car. I just told them that I had fitted good replacements.

You have to understand that it is purely guesswork as to trying to figure out what will cause your car to fail. I strongly suspect that the company that has been contracted to run the testing operation has a requirement to fail a certain percentage of cars so that they have to have a retest, thereby increasing the profit margin considerably. You can fail on small stuff like your windscreen washer jets not being strong enough, or your side indicators [on the front wings of the car] not being orange, or bright, enough.

When my car failed the other week the tester bloke said that the power steering pipes were leaking, and to some extent, he was probably right, but you are talking about a miniscule seepage. I'm sure that if I go out and look under the car today there may be a very slight staining of the rubber pipes but there will not be a dripping leak.

I am only fitting new power steering pipes because I have to take the car back for a new test in August, and I would prefer not to fail again, although it probably will as the knobhead of a cycling Transport Minister doesn't want any older cars on the road in Ireland. The problem with the test, and retesting, is that the test date is always the anniversary of the cars first registration, not from when the test is done. So because I couldn't get a date first of all, and then had to have a retest, my test disc is now only until next August. So the less I drive it now the more chance the car will pass the test next time !!!

Pierre3.