So my parent's P38 has had a bit of a whiff of petrol on startup from the front, and about a week ago I saw the car again and it was obvious it was now constant, so it was parked up till I could get to it. Ordered new orings for the injectors, and various other bits to give it a service. It had started missing at idle etc and generally fuel consumption was way up.

So, assuming it was the o-rings, we pulled the upper plenum off (its a Thor), and had my dad turn the ignition on just to see if we could spot which one was leaking. Nope. Huge cloud of fuel vapour suddenly started pouring in from behind the coil packs, and I made various noises before diving for the extinguisher in the back of mine...

The Thor is returnless, with a single plastic shaped fuel line that connects to the rail underneath the coil packs, and has an abrasion protection thing around it. Or... it should have:

Someone has broken the original line, and replaced it with 6" of some kind of rubber hose... even if that were fuel hose, that's down the back of a very hot engine with no airflow at all. Either way, its disintegrated, and you can see all the cracks in it. Scary.

As for the poor running... one of the HT leads was falling off.

It may have been there for some time and cracked due to the heat or it may not have been fuel hose in the first place. Personally, I'd cut the plastic pipe back to under the car somewhere and put in a run of 10 or 8mm (whatever size matches the original) copper microbore pipe. My Maserati had 2 10mm steel pipes (flow and return) running under the car and I replaced them with 10mm microbore from Wickes. My brake pipe flaring tool will also do larger sized pipe so I was able to put a return flare on each end to stop the hoses slipping off.

Good spot Sloth.
I must admit, being "Mr H&S" and working alone all the time, I have a CO2 and a powder extinguisher very close to hand when doing anything fuelly and testy.
Have an old pressurised water type for when I'm doing anything weldy as well!
It's the GEMS that seems to be in the press at the moment for crunchy fuel lines. You don't expect to find it on a Thor. As I said- good spot.

Well they've had the car just over a year now, and it has been on since before then. I know the engine has been out at some point in its past, and it looks like they didn't disconnect the fuel line, as it has what looks like a snap rather than a cut in it. Will have a look in the service history later.

It is proper fuel hose, scarily. Not to say it isn't ainchient though - might have been a random off cut found when they bodged it back together.

Currently debating buying a used set of lines to replace, or looking into some braided / suitable flexible line and replacing that end to end.

For your viewing pleasure...

Wondering if this was R6 hose (can't make out the print in that picture, and its outside somewhere so I'll look later), which is apparently not good with ethanol content, nor is it rated for that high a pressure. Considering replacing the run with R9, which is good on both counts, and also running it in insulation behind the engine.

Reckon when you're brave enough to go outside, run back in with it and pop off the hose clips, that the printing on it is pretty legible and you'll know what it is. Doesn't tell you anything about its history though. Could have been chopped off an old scrapper just to make a quick botch repair.
Getting good connections onto existing pipe end and clip fitting will be key.
Once you've decided what type of pipe you want to fit why not pop into your local Pirtek and see what they recommend in terms of fittings.
My local branch has been a source of valuable custom hose and pipe manufacture as well as information, in exchange for a generous contribution to the tea fund!

x2 on Pirtek, great guys. Explain them the fluid that runs through and what pressure and they come up with a solution.

The hose was BSAU 108/2, ie R6. And who knows how old it was before it was bodged onto this car.

Like the Pirtek idea, though I think I have a plan. I have been able to salvage the quick release fittings from the original line. Cutting the original plastic pipe off reveals nice hose barbs. I'm going to buy new R9 hose, and then also sleeve it in heat/fire retardant insulation for the section that runs up to the fuel rail behind the engine. As for clamps, I think I'm going to go with Oetiker ear clamps, as they're used on airlines with no issue, and I don't want the possibility of jubilee clips loosening up down there... I know you can get the 'fuel line' type, but surely any screw/worm drive clamp could back off over time.

Norma Cobra clamps as alternative?

I've got a spare one of those if needed 🙂
Don't ask where I got, or why, I don't know..

Hmm mixed feelings on those Cobra clips... plus I'd have to manage to get the right size to secure it nicely, where the Oetiker ones have a bit of flexibility.

no10chris wrote:

I've got a spare one of those if needed 🙂
Don't ask where I got, or why, I don't know..

Ha, thanks Chris! If I manage to cock this up, I'll drop you a PM... I was looking to replace it with OEM to start with, but then after getting underneath, it looks to be a bit of a pain to do. If needs must though..

No worries, if you need just give me a shout, can pop in the post easily enough

If you visit the Oetiker site you can go for a grade when reading their product-info. Not to mention the crimping tool with torque wrench.(£££ I guess)
Oetiker

Wow... that is a lot of info about their clamps!

Who knew they went into such detail... till now, I've only ever thought of the clip together type as 'those irritating bastards' :)

Sloth wrote:

I've only ever thought of the clip together type as 'those irritating bastards' :)

Same as with people, I now men that give overwhelming information and are irritating bastards...

Finally finished* this.

Turns out, getting decent fuel line in the UK is actually pretty difficult. All the R6/R9 stuff on eBay appears to generally be crap and not worth using - many posts on various forums about even the R9 stuff degrading rapidly, faster if the vehicle isn't in regular use. So that leaves a couple of brands worth using, so I went with Cohline 2240 8mm hose in the end. About £10/meter. Also went with a thermal sleeve to cover it up behind the engine. The hose is rated for 125 degrees c, but I figure every little helps. Ear clamps on either end too.

I'm glad I went this route rather than trying to replace the original line, as getting the shaped lines over the gearbox and secured properly would me a bit of a mare with the engine/gearbox in place. I've just cut the fuel supply side off at either end of the moulded bit (moulded together with the evaporative return line), and cable tied this new hose to it neatly.

Anyway... on a test drive, no smell of fuel... but there was a distinctive hot smell. Rear brakes are binding, the drivers side badly... The front to rear lines need replacing, so I'm going to do the solid lines, all rear flexis, and replace both rear calipers. And chuck in a new drivers door window regulator for good measure.

I can only agree with your rejection of shoddy fuel lines!!

Good luck with the brakes. It looks like a job that is just time consuming if you have the right tools. But I'd want someone who knows what they're doing to check it out. You can definitely save a lot of cash doing it DIY though.

I've done the front to rear lines on mine, and they're not so bad. Just time consuming. Messy, if you decide to change it after having bled them (when I left out the short jump hoses, then decided I wanted them again!).

I've got a proper flaring tool for kunifer/steel lines, I didn't bother trying one of the cheap ones as by all accounts, they just can't do it.

Kunifer seems to be the way ahead. It irritates me that OEMs fit steel in most cases. I know they last perfectly well for much longer than the warranty period but it's stil a bit shoddy in my eyes when there's a much safer alternative for a few quid more.

But there's the rub, a few quid more. In fact, when you look at the quantity needed per vehicle and the number of vehicles being built, it probably only comes to pennies but every penny makes a difference. It's much the same with the grade of steel used for valves and valve seats. Many cars, like ours for instance, can run on LPG with no need for a valve seat lubricant because the steel used is hard enough but others can't. Harder steel costs more so that adds to the overall cost of the vehicle so some manufacturers use a grade of steel that is just hard enough to last for their projected lifetime when run on unleaded fuel with it's added lubricant, remove that lubricant and the valve seats wear away at an alarming rate.