Come on, pull up a stool and get yerself a fresh pint...

So, it's brake blitz time.

I've got the modulator modification, I'm having a part made to modify the PCRV and I'd already got a stainless hose kit from Goodridge.

As I'm still waiting for the PCRV bit I thought, let's drain the fluid and do the hoses first, then I'll be dealing with an empty reservoir. Good idea, huh?

Well not really. Y'see the bloody hoses don't fit, or at least 4 out of 6 don't fit, to be precise. Goodridge advertise their kit as being for 1995-2001 Range Rover P38 UK and European spec, so, strangely, this is what I ordered and what it says on the packaging...

However, as you'll see, it's not quite so...

Hard line to rear caliper

Intermediate hose over rear diff

The front pipes appear to be correct and no, they haven't just mixed up the fittings. if you were to swap them, the new hoses would be too short.

I sent some earlier (not as clear) pics over to Goodridge two weeks ago and their first response was that I should sent them my old hoses. I argued that as they sold, and I paid for, the kit as fitting my vehicle, perhaps they'd like to send the right one instead. This elicited the following reply on January 27:-

_" Unfortunately I don’t have the hose details for your car (huh?) and I’m going to have to ask you to supply some information with regards to what you require to make this work

As originally stated the best option is to send us your hoses to copy but I do appreciate the expense and difficulty in doing this

It clearly states on the website that these hose are for UK/European vehicles only and I cannot comment on any changes made for cars sold in the Philippines."_

So apparently, not only do Goodridge not have the details for my vehicle, despite advertising and packaging them as such, I've got some weird one-off that Land Rover Special Vehicles produced specifically to send to Manila, where no-one could afford it.

My next response was to send a copy of the build sheet which states very clearly that the vehicle left Solihull and its next port of call was to be Land Rover France (note, NOT Land Rover Philippines!) so sounds pretty Euro spec to me. Along with this I sent a copy of the relevant page from the Workshop Manual showing, strangely enough, exactly the same layout as mine has...

I also sent the pictures above.

Since then, I have had only silence, reminiscent of a certain doctor who has had 250 of my dollars for two years now and from whom I also have no parts.

Problem I have is that it will cost around 150 quid (I checked) to courier my hoses, back to the UK, with no promise that this will make any difference whatsoever. At least now, if push comes to shove, I can re-fit my old hoses and struggle on with them for a while. Can't do that if they are winging their way to the UK now, can I?

Trouble is,until Goodridge actually admit that what they have sent is not for a European Spec 1995-2001 Range Rover P38, we can't progress, and the silence is deafening on that one.

In three years and several thousands of pounds of stuff shipped, I've only had one instance of wrong parts and a single e-mail was all it took for Rimmers to immediately rectify the matter, with no argument and not even a request for me to return the wrong bits. Just good old fashioned customer service. Not Goodridge, oh no.

Let's see if this week brings any movement, but just be aware if you are thinking of ordering any.

Why not send them pics from the parts catalogue as well, just to highlight the differences?
Early
Late
At least it'll prove that the changes were universal, not just European!

They've sent you a set for the later layout, not the early one. 95 to 97 uses the ones you have, the ones you've been sent are for MY97 onwards. Did they come direct from Goodridge themselves?

I'd question using Goodridge hoses at all, they don't have a stellar reputation for reliability. I was a member on the Fiat Coupe and BMW E30 forums and both reported failures.

Sending one kit claiming to fit all years of P38 is proof that Goodridge don't know what they are doing, unless they put extra hoses in to cover the difference. Did a bit of noogling around t'net and found that Goodridge official site doesn't list the P38 but some others do, including a spiffy Goodridge box. Couple say 6 hoses on the box illustration with NB note further down saying "this kit only contains 4 hoses". OKay.

Really does wonders for your confidence in more arcane engineering matters if they can't even count. Having in the past demonstrated how easy it is to pull official Goodridge supplied for motorcycle hoses out of the connector I'm no great lover of them in out of sight out of mind applications. Can't see that the flexi / stainless issue makes any practical difference on a P38 anyway given that its a proper power braking system. Its arguable that an ultra solid system isn't the best of ideas when a high pressure ABS system starts rattling away. The touch of compliance in ordinary flexis might give things an easier life.

Drifting off topic I do use them on motorcycles where the extra firmness is very noticeable. But I make the lines. Properly. (My rotary engined Norton Commander needs all the help it can get on the stopping side. Big, fairly weighty, powerful, very fast when in the mood and absolutely no engine braking effect whatsoever. Both Commanders had serious brake upgrades pretty much out of the box as the standard ex-Yamaha XJ 900 units were a joke in bad taste and the current one has had another uplift since. Hoping for decent weather this year as I really need to make some inroads into my second million miles and Grandad Norton's second 100,000.)

Clive

I kept wondering why my Goodridges needed bleeding every 6 months or less on the bike. I couldnt find anything obvious until a few weeks back when I did a bleed and tested the pedal, then pop went to hose. There was obviously a fault and a micro hole leading to failure.
Just glad it happened in the garage and not out on the road.

This place https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s/goodridge/goodridge-600-series-brake-clutch-hose-fittings list the P38 kit but will also sell the hose and screw on fittings separately so you can make up your own. I prefer a nut and olive to crimped on any day, the same as the difference between screw on and crimp on RF connectors on some of the stuff I work with, the crimped on ones are always the first to fail.

Orangebean wrote:

Why not send them pics from the parts catalogue as well, just to highlight the differences?
Early
Late
At least it'll prove that the changes were universal, not just European!

I've just done that very thing! Thanks for that.

Gilbertd wrote:

They've sent you a set for the later layout, not the early one. 95 to 97 uses the ones you have, the ones you've been sent are for MY97 onwards. Did they come direct from Goodridge themselves?

Yes, they were a direct purchase.

As said above, I've sent the parts pictures and await their response, or lack thereof.

As to Goodridge themselves, as usual you don't hear the bad side until it's too late!

Got to admit that the guy I'm dealing with (when he condescends to reply) doesn't fill me full of confidence. Oh well, let's see how we get on. As I say, I can always refit my old ones for now.

Now, where did I put those spring clips?!

Following a little message on Twitter, I suddenly got a phone call last evening, culminating in this...

"Thanks George

The kit will be made today and dispatched this week to you.

Once again apologies for the inconveniences you’ve experienced.

Best Regards"

I emailed them on Monday, pointing out that the kit they've sent you ( not mentioning any names,just RR forums) was not suitable for 94-97 models. Got a reply from a guy called Ian, was very appreciative and said he will confirm with LR and get it sorted,
Amazing that I get an instant reply, yet they keep you hanging whenever you mailed them 😡
And now there making them for you,, bloody amazing,, lol
Fingers crossed.. your all sorted now,,

I have a feeling that their service depends on the amount of (negative) publicity is involved. One to one e-mail is not shocking, that can wait but when social (=public) media is involved they take action. Not good.

Ferryman wrote:

I have a feeling that their service depends on the amount of (negative) publicity is involved. One to one e-mail is not shocking, that can wait but when social (=public) media is involved they take action. Not good.

Your most probably right Tony, but if me mentioning a RR forum put the fear of god up them, it's all good, he he 😊.

no10chris wrote:

I emailed them on Monday, pointing out that the kit they've sent you ( not mentioning any names,just RR forums) was not suitable for 94-97 models. Got a reply from a guy called Ian, was very appreciative and said he will confirm with LR and get it sorted,
Amazing that I get an instant reply, yet they keep you hanging whenever you mailed them 😡
And now there making them for you,, bloody amazing,, lol
Fingers crossed.. your all sorted now,,

Ah, thanks for this. It was good old Ian who was trying to tell me I had the extremely rare, Philippines only, version. "Nothing I can do, Guv"

I did suggest that they revisit how they are advertising and describing their products online, just to save them any problems in the future, you understand.

Ferryman wrote:

I have a feeling that their service depends on the amount of (negative) publicity is involved. One to one e-mail is not shocking, that can wait but when social (=public) media is involved they take action. Not good.

Don't think there's any question about it. After a week of e-mail silence on their part, one message on Twitter was answered amazingly quickly, to be followed by several phone calls and the sudden production of the (hopefully) correct hoses.

It's a bloody shame, but I suppose it was ever thus. You always got further complaining face-to-face in the shop than on the phone, so I suppose this is just a high-tech version of the same thing!

Gilbertd wrote:

This place https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s/goodridge/goodridge-600-series-brake-clutch-hose-fittings list the P38 kit but will also sell the hose and screw on fittings separately so you can make up your own. I prefer a nut and olive to crimped on any day, the same as the difference between screw on and crimp on RF connectors on some of the stuff I work with, the crimped on ones are always the first to fail.

Maybe next time, which could be sooner rather than later, given the general comments! :-)

GeorgeB wrote:

Following a little message on Twitter, I suddenly got a phone call last evening, culminating in this...

"Thanks George

The kit will be made today and dispatched this week to you.

Once again apologies for the inconveniences you’ve experienced.

Best Regards"

So, that was 7th February.

On the 15th, I mailed again to ask if they, by any chance, had a tracking number for the consignment. I got an immediate reply with said number. Apparently they shipped on the 13th.

Whilst I should have been delighted at the news, my heart sank when I saw the link was to Royal Mail. Knowing I have a vehicle in bits and unable to operate because of their error, they decided the best thing to do was just pop them in the post box!

This means three things:-

1) It'll be eons before they arrive - actually 6 days.

2) It'll be a few more eons before PHLpost get around to telling me they've arrived, and

3) I then have to go an collect them from the Manila Central Post Office, where entire generations have been born, raised and died waiting to collect a parcel.

As of today, tracking tells me that my stuff, "...has arrived in MANILA PHILLIPINES and is being processed for delivery."

Let's see how long before the little card is delivered telling me to pick it up. Historically, I have to email an enquiry first, then a mysteriously backdated one arrives!

UPS/DHL is normally 3 days door-to-door and I'd have been back on the road now.

It isn't just the Philippines George. I've sent stuff that was urgent by Royal Mail International Priority to France. Tracking has shown it to have arrived in France the following day only for it to sit around for 3 or 4 days before being sent out for delivery. Royal mail quote 2-3 days for delivery but tell you that they can't be held responsible for delays at the other end and everyone knows that nothing is urgent in France. As the Philippines was Spanish ruled for many years, that's probably were it originates from. We all know the Spanish are even more laid back than the French!

But at least they are on their way, all you've got to hope is that they are right this time.......

Gilbertd wrote:

It isn't just the Philippines George. I've sent stuff that was urgent by Royal Mail International Priority to France. Tracking has shown it to have arrived in France the following day only for it to sit around for 3 or 4 days before being sent out for delivery. Royal mail quote 2-3 days for delivery but tell you that they can't be held responsible for delays at the other end and everyone knows that nothing is urgent in France. As the Philippines was Spanish ruled for many years, that's probably were it originates from. We all know the Spanish are even more laid back than the French!

If you have a few minutes to spare, have a look at this award winning tale of parcel collection at the Manila Central Post Office!

This sorry tale is about halfway down the page.

Life and death at Manila Post Office