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The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse.
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Joined: Jan 16 2016
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Oponeo are based in London, but just had notification from DPD (the carrier) that the tyres are on the way.
They are currently in Salamanca, Spain !!!

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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Yes, odd that. My Vredesteins came from Germany and the pair of Avons bought a couple of weeks ago for the other half's Merc, came from the UK. However, despite Avon being a British company and OE tyre supplier to Aston Martin, the tyres themselves were manufactured in Slovenia. Work that one out?

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Joined: Nov 16 2016
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Somebody posted this video on another forum https://youtu.be/atayHQYqA3g

Compares 2wd with winter tyres to 4wd with summer tyres in snow conditions. I would have thought 4wd would still beat 2wd but apparently not?

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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Winter tyres are magic. As I've said before, I was able to drive a 325i Touring 1990 through a very snowy winter (2011 IIRC) using Michelin Alpins. Some days I was driving in inches of snow on top of ice and yes, I had to be careful but it worked just fine.
One day we stopped to give a woman a lift who was just sobbing by the side of the road. She had enough on a hilly road and couldn't face sliding down any more hills out of control. The little BMW just drove straight up and down to work where we gave her a coffee and she waited until the black ice burnt off.
Some days mine was the only 2wd car I saw, let alone RWD.

Also, 4wd lets you accelerate on snow but it does nothing for braking. All season tyres are good but full winter tyres are amazing.

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Joined: Oct 20 2018
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Absolutely agree with Morat. I put winter tyres on P's MX5 and even though we live at the top of a hill it sails up through snow and ice. The e38 on all weather tyres is nowhere near as sure footed.
I've used Tyreleaders, https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/, for the past few years and found them to be well priced and as Richard says the tyres seem to come from all over the place.

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Joined: Sep 02 2016
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Winter tyres are great in winter ..... because of the cold (!!) and/but are made of a different compund to normal tyres of course which does not perform that well in the warmer weather. They also have a different tread pattern which is good in snow but less so in the wet....

Most of us will be aware of all this anyway but:
https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/safety/winter-tyres-in-the-uk

It always perturbed me that Alcoholics Anonymous would provide advice to drivers though...

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Joined: Nov 16 2016
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Tyres are obviously a compromise between performance in various conditions, comfort, noise, wear and price but the difference in performance in snow shown in the video and confirmed by others here is amazing!

So those stickers on tyres showing ratings for most of those (mentioned) properties - do we reckon the ratings are generally correct/fair or sometimes exaggerated?

My people carrier (Elgrand) is pretty quick for a van but I'll never be pushing it's handling to the limit on dry or wet roads. Since the limit is reached sooner in wet conditions does it make sense that I should fit tyres that excel in the wet (a wet summer road is likely to be more slippy than a wet winter road)?

Outer edges of my front tyres are worn smooth because after I changed front suspension from stupidly low coilovers back to OEM struts I didn't adjust the tracking, they're legal and have plenty tread across most of the width but I'm thinking about changing them anyway. Brakes work great but should stop even sooner in the wet if I put rain or all weather tyres on the front (fronts will make more difference to braking than rears)? And since it's 4wd and front end heavy this should also mean I have better grip on acceleration etc?

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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The mountain symbol is the current marking for winter capable tyres and supersedes the M+S mark (often still used).
In some countries the mountain symbol is required on all cars in the winter (notably Germany). But M+s will suffice until a certain changeover date. If you're looking to drive on the continent, the rules vary by country quite widely despite the EU.
Point is, even the mountain symbol covers a range of tyres. My AT Grabbers have both markings despite being more of an all season, all terrain tyre. The AT2 were also marked with both symbols and were very good in the snow but its hard to compare all seasons and full winter tyres between a Jeep and a BMW. I'd think the Michelin Alpin are a better snow tyre but I wouldn't run them year round.

The p38 was perfectly happy on Grabber AT in snow a couple of years ago lthough it wasn't a fierce winter.

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I had Goodyear Wranglers on mine which were marked as M+S but where totally useless on snow. Before a trip to Latvia in December a couple of years ago, I fitted a set of Vredestein Quadrac 5 which have the 3 mountain symbol on them. They are sold as an all season tyre but have an asymmetric tread pattern with the fine grooves the same as a winter tyre on the inside and a fairly normal tread pattern on the outside. They claim to be as good as a winter tyre, and having tested them on snow, they do seem to do what is claimed, and have the softer rubber compound so aren't recommended for sustained high temperature use in hot summer weather. As we don't get hot summers they are fine as an all season tyre in the UK but I wouldn't recommend them if you live somewhere hotter.

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Joined: Nov 16 2016
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Thank you both!

Not likely to fit Wranglers on the Elgrand lol, or tyres that wouldn't be rated for 90mph cruising in summer. Best bet to get some all weather tyres then? After I've made sure there's no play in ball joints etc and tracking is good... I let my mates at their local tyre/exhaust place do the tracking, told them the steering wheel was just bit to the right in a straight line but it was towing in, asked if they could do most towing out on drivers side track rod end and about a third on the passenger side. They did the full adjustment on the drivers side and now the steering wheel points to the left in a straight line... If they'd have done as I asked the wheel would be pointing straight when driving straight - a bit annoying.

Anyone else surprised at the video? I did wonder if they'd chosen the model of car for the test because they knew it'd come more down to tyres than 4wd vs 2wd... turning into a conspiracy theorist now! Unlike a BMW which has great nose/tail weight balance my car is nose heavy like most cars are, in 2wd form my model of car is rwd, surely even if the vid etc are correct my model of car is going to have over twice the grip in snow of rwd only same models if both models wear the same tyres? Can't get my head around different models of tyres (that aren't slicks) can more than compensate for 4wd when fitted to a rwd version of same model front heavy car.

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It doesn't matter how many wheels are doing the driving, if the tyres aren't sticking all you'll get is wheelspin. I managed to fool the Traction Control on mine in the snow by flooring it from a standstill on the Goodyears. All it did was gently slither sideways down the camber with no forward movement at all. Traction Control did nothing as all 4 wheels were spinning at the same speed so it thought everything was fine.

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Joined: Nov 16 2016
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I understand... But just to explain where I'm coming from on this. As a young lad I had a few Ford Cortina's, heavy on the front (engine + subframe), very light on the back with a live axle, I liked the model of car and I liked the loose back end handling (fun). In snow it was shit, all that weight at the front but hardly any weight over the driving wheels. If it was fwd instead of rwd I'd have expected far better in the snow but not as much fun, no powesliding etc. I wouldn't expect sticking snow tyres on the back would have made more difference to driving traction than if the car was fwd (weight over driven wheels) instead of rwd... If I was a lightweight fella on a slippery surface trying to push a heavy fella I'd expect more of a difference had the heavy fella been trying to push me than the type of shoes we were both wearing, provided we both wore shoes with a few grooves in them rather than flat bottomed slippery shoes. No argument here I just want to understand lol. BHP as well, my Senator would go up hills the Cortina wouldn't (both rwd) but the Sentator was more powerful and had an autobox, Cortina a manual box. Could sometimes just get traction on a hill in snow in the Senator had like 100mph on the speedo melting ice under the rear wheels as it moved over it. My dad had a Beetle as a kid, in snow he'd chuck a couple of sacks of potatoes in the boot to increase traction.

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Joined: Sep 02 2016
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Serious question but I would not be surprised if someone has not tried it:

What would be the likely effects of having one of our (OEM) 'Spacesavers' on all four corners ?

Yes, I know it is only a matter of 255/60 to 235/70 tyres (20 mm) but it must affect traction.....

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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I suspect the first emergency stop would be very frightening indeed.

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Joined: Sep 02 2016
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Morat wrote:

I suspect the first emergency stop would be very frightening indeed.

? Surely 2 cm difference in tyre width all round would not cause that ?

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Joined: Sep 02 2016
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If there was such a problem I doubt they would provide these as standard 'spares'.....

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Joined: Sep 14 2016
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Interesting comments on safety of space savers here https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/31947/are-space-savers-safe . The idea of a temporary tyre being good for 80 mph is slightly worrying. Especially as you still have the short life issue.

Not surprised by the poor performance of the run flat tyres. Sidewall compliance has a massive influence on how a tyre grips and how the vehicle handles. A run flat effectively doesn't have a sidewall so it pretty much has to be worse. That particular objection goes right back to the original Dunlop (Denovo?) days. Seems to have been waffled around ever since.

From an engineering perspective what really worries me about spacesavers is the age issue. If its been used how much of the 50 safe(ish?) miles life is left. If its not been used and ahs been sitting in the back of a car for a decade or more just how good is it. Tyres do age. Officially a space saver should be changed after use but how many folk do. More £££ for apparently nowt.

Given the hefty tyres on a P38, how much of an issue are punctures for us anyway?

Clive

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Joined: Sep 02 2016
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Quite an old Article there Clive ( so perhaps these 80mph did not catch on anyway....) but some good/relevant comments on there though too;
eg. Surely the safest way to have a spare in a car is too have one that is the same as the rest (as no doubt many of us on here do anyway ?) Doh !

Spacesavers just seem like a backward step in safety; Don't think they should be used 'up front' either (moreso in FWD) but it depends on the 'personal interpretation' of temporary and clearly more 'public' guidance is needed on that too...

Give me a 'full-sized wheel in a wheel well' any time (especially in a rear-end shunt

RR chose to provide steel rims and with a (slightly) narrower tyre was of course cost.... but I have also now encountered quite a few 235/70 on 7j alloys too... and now might just try them on all 4 corners anyway and report back on here ! (Might have to try it out in various conditions too of course)

Incidentallly when i had my (alloy) Spacesaver milled out (to make it a bit more universal) the engineer said it was 'poor metal, just like they use on Bentleys and Astons' !

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davew wrote:

Serious question but I would not be surprised if someone has not tried it:

What would be the likely effects of having one of our (OEM) 'Spacesavers' on all four corners ?

Yes, I know it is only a matter of 255/60 to 235/70 tyres (20 mm) but it must affect traction.....

Mine has just that. The base version, which my police spec car was based on, has 16 x 7 inch wheels (Futura design) with 235/70 x 16 tyres rather than the 16 x 8 or 18 x 8 fitted to the rest. A lot of the early cars, particularly the diesel versions, had the 7" wheels and that is also what is used on the Disco 2. Originally it was only the higher spec versions that had the 8" wheels in either 16 or 18 inch diameter.

Having driven mine on the 235's, my Ascot on 18 x 8 (with the 265 section tyres) and a mates car on 16 x 8 wheels, the only difference I've noticed is that mine rides better due to the taller sidewalls.

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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davew wrote:

Morat wrote:

I suspect the first emergency stop would be very frightening indeed.

? Surely 2 cm difference in tyre width all round would not cause that ?

No, but the crappy tyres probably would. They're usually hard as concrete.