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The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse.
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Joined: Sep 02 2016
Posts: 448

Yes, this is essentially a 'right to reply' to the "Zero Emissions" Thread which is now closed

Whilst I realise that my remarks within may be considered "inflammatory" (indeed almost as much as the ones aimed at me in that thread, including some from Mods) and so this thread will likely be 'offed' too - but ask that it remain for a few days at least.

And - if they are really 'neccessary' - I look forward to your continued snipes and/or snide/sarcastic remarks too..
but do be sure to make it obvious when you deploy any (actual) 'jokes' !
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(PMs as sent to the 'primary perpetrators')

The 'Eco' Thread......

Greetings Gentlemen…….
Well you are very happy to ‘dish it out’ but you really don’t ‘like it back’ now do you ?!

Yes of course I understand why the thread was just stopped, as I also understand what has happening here, other than the ‘standard internet cyber-bullying’ nonsense I mean ! Anyone driving big-block gas-guzzlers is going to feel ‘threatened’ by ‘Zero Emission’ stuff , but unfortunately hostility - either direct or more ‘subtle’ - is really not going to change that…..’sorry’ !!

The thread first went downhill after the unpleasant and unnecessary criticisms of Greta T. with the kind of remarks and comments that you certainly would not accept if they were aimed at your daughters (or grand-daughters in some cases… ). Sadly only ‘Bolt’ was mature enough to recognise that ….

The second problem was an apparent obsession with ‘if I drove a P38 (or not)’ – surely irrelevant in this context - but still that allowed someone to happily indicate I was a liar for not revealing it !

Similarly the numerous ‘personal’ remarks made ‘as a joke’ are not at all “ convincing “ chaps, that is at least when not deliberately-provocative and seemingly-adolescent of course. Perhaps I should be grateful I did not just get the standard teenage response “ whatever ” to my posts ?!

Unfortunately the anonymous nature of Fora allows folks to make comments with impunity (and the normal human courtesies). That – obviously - is what the Tim B-L comment was about. Climate Change causes deaths and that is NOT a joke (now and in the future) and passive-aggressive remarks, eg. ‘cartoons’ showing ‘army snipers’ will really not help that nor the thread…

Perhaps I should have just posted up that famous “You Can’t Handle The Truth” clip from Jack Nicholson instead ? My own ‘hilarious’ joke ‘outburst’ seems to have irritated some…

In response to your final comments Richard I would suggest that the topic –Zero Emissions- is totally valid in any environment where ICE is now -apparently- “the enemy” (or at least easy pickings for our clueless politicians / car lobbyists). As for my comments being ‘off topic’ are you serious (?)

Clearly the car industry -and petrol companies- are ‘feeling the pinch’ - rightly or wrongly. Hence the recent F1 announcement (and many traditional ‘sponsorships’ too) as many are now taking note of the “Environmental Impacts”…. My misinterpreted remark about Lotus obviously relates to claims about “exotic” (and extremely expensive) EV batteries …. But which may not be relevant to the Mass Market.

In fact I was an entrepreneur myself at the start of the IT revolution (Yes, back in the 80s). Now I mentor ‘kids’ on current high-tech opportunities (including ‘state-of-the-art stuff’ like Quantum Computing & etc), Take it from me that these kids, typically in their 20s, “think differently” to the way we (50+) did…
“You may say they are Dreamers, but the’re not the only ones” !!

Seriously I may now use this thread as the basis of my next Seminar: “Why Oldies Fear Change”… (And might turn nasty if faced with it ?)”
Enough said !
Dave (real name)….

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Joined: Mar 26 2016
Posts: 327

Have you ever thought that it might just be that no one is sodding interested in your posts and numerous links?? This is a forum for V8 owning car enthusiasts, not eco-warriors. If you wish to talk about climate change and hero worship Greta, then go to the appropriate forums.
I wonder when you're going to make a post about P38s???

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 3848

Dave, the problem here is that you have given nothing away. You hide behind Davew, you have made no mention of what you drive these days, where in the country you are, what your qualifications are to back up your posts and just simply spread propaganda from the Climate Change lobby. You have never even acknowledged that some of this propaganda may well be biased or that there are alternative views. When asked about your stance all you've said is it isn't about you but it is. If you are an eminent scientist (which on odd occasions you have hinted that you are) involved in this research, then tell us. If you are a lecturer at a university involved in Climate Change, then tell us. You hint that you'll be doing another Seminar, so where and on what? Can we come along to apply some balance? Everyone fears change if it affects their way of life, irrespective of their age. There have been recent claims that 5G will kill us all so how about we stop the introduction of 5G and, just in case there is some truth in it, we shut down all the 4G too? Then it wouldn't be the oldies that would fear change but the youngsters who spend all their time glued to their smartphones. It all depends on what is important to the individual.

I've made no secret of the fact that I've had to do as much research as I can as I'm involved in selecting the vehicles to replace our work fleet so have had to find out about the various restrictions being introduced around the country. I've also made no secret of the fact that I own 2 P38s, both running on LPG and one has been registered with the French, German, Dutch and Belgian authorities and in all cases it has been regarded as a clean vehicle so has unrestricted access to their low emission zones.

We all have an interest but don't need one sided 'facts' rammed down our throats. Whenever the thread started to die a death, you'd pop up with yet another link to instigate more replies. That is the definition of a troll. We are all entitled to our opinions but opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one but some of them stink.

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Joined: Nov 16 2016
Posts: 914

Dave's opening post on this thread is a copy and paste of a PM he sent to me and probably others who were on the other thread. Before Dave started this thread I replied to his PM (couldn't resist) with:

Don't forget to tell the kids you got banned from another Rangerover forum!

On this forum rangerovers.PUB the pub bit is taken seriously, users consider the forum a place to talk like you'd talk to mates in a pub, we'll disagree but there's no 'dishing', you don't start slating a mate in a pub if you have a disagreement. There are no ardent climate change deniers here and the subject of the thread wasn't even about climate change, the thread was intended as a discussion about the implications of the UK going carbon neutral by 2030... But you continually steered the thread to make it about whether we think climate change is real and seemed to take the view we all think it isn't. On this thread there's Bolt, who already lives 'off grid', has been involved in inventing renewable energy products for 40 years and has gone as far as making his own EVs. There's me, I've converted about 1000 vehicles to run on LPG and vehicles running on LPG produce maybe 10% less CO2 so you could say I've helped take the equivalent of 100 cars off the road in CO2 terms. There's Morat who gives the impression he thinks the UK should be the first country to go carbon neutral by 2030. Gilbert in a way helps recycle old cars - and you know that re-using old cars can imply a new car doesn't have to be produced (at what CO2 cost). Then there's you, ironically/hypocritically bleating about green issues whilst running a V8 (maybe not on LPG?) and you haven't mentioned anything slightly green you do other than talking to kids who you've said are cleverer than you are and already know more about green than you do. It would have been nice to have developed the conversation on subject with Morat and others but you continually steered the thread off course going off on strange unrelated tangents and with a very disruptive unfriendly attitude that nearly got you banned from this forum too. I would love to be a fly on the wall when you're talking to these kids and see what they make of you, especially if you show them the 'zero carbon emissions from the UK by 2030' thread. There never was a thread titled 'Eco'.

End of PM.

Reminds us of another thread Dave was on lol https://rangerovers.pub/topic/945-legal-stuff-you-should-probably-read?page=1

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Joined: Dec 29 2015
Posts: 713

I really don't want to start seeing banned users (apart from spammers) and locked or deleted threads.

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Joined: Sep 02 2016
Posts: 448

OldShep: Then “If you don’t like it (or if you are not interested) just don’t read it” ?
(Tricky I grant - as I did not actualy know you were a Mod. until you closed the thread… )

For anyone else I am sure you realise you don’t have to read everything you see… be it Daily Mail. Guardian /whatever….
The clue is in the title/headlines ….

And you do know that Lpgc started the Zero Emissions thread right ?: Did not see any such remarks about that !

Richard: Did not say anything about 5G…. but I did help define GSM…. And also spent some time in revealing discussions with the European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts years ago; They had a compact Super “Cray” with a huge heat exchanger outside ….. that we used to joke probably changed the climate ! Errr… no, it really isn’t about me guys: It’s about The World – obviously.

If you read what I actually wrote I don’t really care what folks drive, that’s their choice (but I totally understand the SUV views on relative safety and how smaller cars have a much higher fatality rate in higher-impact collisions etc). Similarly I am not responsible for the crazy P38 car tax in Ireland as reported by ‘Rcutler’; Feel free to also take your frustration out on the Irish tax folks who actually did that though !

incidentally of course as I already mentioned I tell these kids that just using the internet (or buying a Chinese phone/gadget etc) has more eco-impact than ICE and that the whole life of a car needs to be taken into consideration. Perhaps you weren't in my " Why Manufacturers Don't make their Cars To Last 20+ years' Seminar (aka the " Atrificial Product Differentiation" Topic ! it's part of my (Hotle debayed) "Brand Preferences - why ?" Topic !

Lpgc: Yes but you patently missed the part where I clearly stated “(PMs as sent to the 'primary perpetrators)" !
Never mind, it's hard to focus when being unpleasant

Frankly I started to read your message but got to the part where you started to misquote me (again) and I lost interest…. Why not just respond to what I actually write, not react to something else you would have preferred me to write so you can react instead of respond ? Clue; This generally starts with “it’s like saying blah blah blah”…. (although i didn't). You know, like Richard did above with 5G...

A PUB is of course a PUBLIC place; I am not going to provide personal details here any more than I would shout out my PIN over the PA system in a Pub !

Yes I remember the GDPR thread; It’s the one where I made an (obvious) joke but Morat took it personally ! He has been ‘sniping’ since…

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Joined: Sep 02 2016
Posts: 448

Even though based on the last point above this will also (likely) get me castigated, although it's a Tim B-L quote:

"I think people's fear of bad things happening on the internet is becoming, justifiably, greater and greater. If we leave the web as it is, there's a very large number of things that will go wrong. We could end up with a digital dystopia if we don’t turn things around. It's not that we need a 10-year plan for the web, we need to turn the web around now".

The three principle the contract sets out for governments are:

Principle 1 Ensure everyone can connect to the internet

Principle 2 Keep all of the internet available, all of the time

Principle 3 Respect and protect people’s fundamental online privacy and data rights

For companies, the following three principles have been put forward:

Principle 4: Make the internet affordable and accessible to everyone

Principle 5: Respect and protect people’s privacy and personal data to build online trust

Principle 6: Develop technologies that support the best in humanity and challenge the worst

General citizens have not been forgotten; they have three principles of their own to abide by:

Principle 7: Be creators and collaborators on the Web

Principle 8: Build strong communities that respect civil discourse and human dignity

Principle 9: Fight for the Web

Together, the principles seek to ensure that everyone has access to the internet and that faith in the web can be restored.

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My involvement with some of these initiatives is why I won't be drawn on revealling personal stuff on the Web either

Remember: There Are Bots About !

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Joined: Mar 26 2016
Posts: 327

davew wrote:

OldShep: Then “If you don’t like it (or if you are not interested) just don’t read it” ?
(Tricky I grant - as I did not actualy know you were a Mod. until you closed the thread… )

Well, you answered yourself there!!
One of the ideals of being a Mod is you have to read all the posts made to ensure everyone is 'behaving'. Hence, I read most of your posts as well as everyone else's. Also I have never advertised being a Mod as there has never been a need. I'm not the only Mod on here but we are rarely needed.
Believe me, I never took the matter of locking that thread lightly and discussed it with others.

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 1656

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Joined: Dec 29 2015
Posts: 713

davew wrote:

Principle 8: Build strong communities that respect civil discourse and human dignity

You've been told repeatedly to stop your nonsense. You're not exactly going out of your way to "respect civil discourse", are you?

You are of course entirely free to discuss the topics you want, but if you are asked not to discuss them here, you ought to respect that.

I really, really don't want to see locked, edited or deleted threads or banned users here.

Now let's be clear about something - locking, editing or deleting a post, or banning users, is not censorship. You have a right to free speech, but you do not have a right to force anyone else to publish it for you.

Or, if you'd prefer the TL;DR version, wind your neck in, like you were told to weeks ago.