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Joined: Dec 22 2018
Posts: 34

Trying to get my Vogue 50 started after many years (4.6gems). Turns over fine but no fuel getting to fuel rail (Schrader valve pushed and no fuel / pressure). Disconnected fuel pipe at bulkhead, nothing). Fuse checked and fine, relay checked and working fine. Inertia switch checked and power going to it. The question is how far back can I test the system before having to cut a hole in the floor? I haven't checked the fuel filter as it looks original and I don't want to damage threads. Are there any other obviouse checks? 'Working fine when parked up" LPG system fitted and 'petrol' selected. Plenty of fresh fuel in tank. No obviouse sound from pump but can you actually hear it from inside?

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 4032

Do you have power on the White/Blue wire from the inertia switch? That's the wire going from there to the fuel pump so you could jumper 12V directly to there. Is the pump drawing any current? Sometimes you can hear it but not always.

Cut a hole in the floor? On a Vogue 50? What next, go faster stripes on the H&H? If you are going to do it, do it properly and drop the tank.

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Joined: Dec 22 2018
Posts: 34

With the inertia switch disconnected. Brown and white has a permanent 12v even with ignition off. Other two wires have no power in any postition of the ignition. If I bridge the brown and white to the blue and white the inertia warning alarm activates, but still no fuel.

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Joined: Dec 22 2018
Posts: 34

Ok so bridge the brown and white to 'orangy pinky/white. No alarm but still no fuel. I presume inertia switch also ok so what next. Blocked fuel filter (very nervous to remove) or pump?

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Joined: Apr 23 2019
Posts: 334

Phil, If you are under the car you should be able to hear the whine of the pump. Orange and white to blue and white should have provided power to the pump (A1-6). Perhaps disconnecting white purple to the BECM would prevent any alarm from happening. Using a clamp meter see what the current is on the blue/ white wire, or get an ammeter in line - I guess no current is not a good thing. Maybe if the car had been laid up for that long the fuel pump just died and no-one could ever be bothered to fix it? Maybe try and get the filter off next (because it looks original, which means >20 y.o., read my "difficult restart" thread for an exciting account of how to/ not to do it - heat and dremel, in the end). If it makes you feel better, if i had to get to the fuel pump I'd be seriously considering the hole in the floor method, 50th or not, the less time spent prostrate under a 2 tonne car the better IMHO and then there are all the other things which will be rusted up and a PITA to remove. The 50th may already have a hole in the floor :o) you never know your luck

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 1752

I was really p-d off that someone had cut a hole in the floor of my Jeep - until the fuel pump died and I was massively pleased. If nothing else you can whack the pump in-situ and see if it starts!

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Joined: Aug 07 2019
Posts: 70

when fuel pumps sit fore a long time they tend to bind up (seize that is ). remove the pump and physically turn the rotor if possible or buy a new one ?
sorry its not what you want to here. apply power directly to the pump even reverse the wires and try to free up the pump.

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 1752

Yep, that's the thing. If you're dropping the tank would you put an old pump back in?

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 4032

Dropping the tank isn't difficult, 5 bolts (or 2 bolts and 3 nuts if you want to be pedantic) and a trolley jack. A lot safer than cutting holes in the bodywork next to a plastic tank full of petrol.

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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Fair enough, I've never done it on a P38. But I bet those bolts aren't going to be just spinning out!

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Joined: Sep 02 2016
Posts: 476

+1 on not cutting a hole with the tank in place......

If you really must cut an access hole it is best to do that with the tank not there......
and even then it is not easy to get most tank-pumps out unless it is BIG hole.

As for hearing if the pump is actually running a 'listening stick' should help !

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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Morat wrote:

Fair enough, I've never done it on a P38. But I bet those bolts aren't going to be just spinning out!

I've dropped a tank twice and both times the bolts/nuts have come undone without any problem. They are big (17 or 19mm) so not fiddly little things that are going to round off as soon as you put any grunt on them. RAVE tells you to disconnect the filler neck but you only need to do that if you are taking the tank right out, no need if you are just lowering it down to get to the pump..

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Joined: Oct 20 2018
Posts: 73

I agree with Richard. I've just taken the tank out of the CVC and it really was quite easy in spite of the rust on the carrier.

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Joined: Jun 17 2018
Posts: 260

I'd hazard it would be more efford ripping out the carpet to get to the metal to cut..

Just drop the tank..

Piece of pish in reality.

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Joined: Dec 22 2018
Posts: 34

Many thanks for all your advice there seems to be a split of opinions between cut or drop. Although I'm an enthusiast and appreciate originality I do tend to lean towards cutting. I'd remove carpet and not cut to hide my shortcut. Morat dropping the tank seems easy but how much space will there be to get to the pump and actually work on it with the filler neck connected. This will all be done on my drive with a couple of trolly jack's. Although I'm adamant not to break it I have to be realistic about what a major project it will be and ultimately how much will it be worth completed? Not one person messaged me about buying it.

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Joined: Jun 17 2018
Posts: 260

P38 is a special market.

The youngest is 18yrs old now..

Not many rush out to buy 'em!

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Joined: Dec 22 2018
Posts: 34

You've almost convinced me to lower tank. I'm not worried about 5 bolts. But what about space and access to pump? Disconnecting the fuel and return lines? Undoing the big ring (I do not have the correct tool). The filler line seems to be the restricting obsticle, how easy is it to disconnect? All this upside down on my drive in winter. Potentially perished air bags so can't even manually pump up RR.

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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The tank tapers at the front so with the front lowered there's plenty of space between the top of the tank and the underside if the car. I did the fuel lines on the SE I used to have (return line had rusted through) with the EAS on high and a jack under the towbar to stop it lowering. Filler hose is just a big thick hose with a hose clip but like any hose that has been in place for 20 years, it'll have stuck but once freed off comes off easily enough.

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Joined: Dec 29 2015
Posts: 720

When Miah and I did mine, the three nuts and two bolts came out easily. The nuts needed a deep socket, but they're stuffed right up out of the way where they don't get soaked with salty water and they're well covered in underseal.

The tank was easy to drop out once the metal plate came away, and then the pipes just unscrewed from the pump. I needed to cut the old pipes on the pump and buy some new pipe olives but I just reused the pipe nuts. To remove the plastic lock ring I just tapped it round with a screwdriver and a rubber mallet, once I'd cleaned all the mud off the top.

Dead easy.

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
Posts: 1752

OK, tank out!
Let's hope it's the fuel pump, an easy fix once you have access.