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The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse
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I'm going to be selling one of my 2002 Alveston Red Vogue SE's but am unsure of the value or what to ask for the car. I see late cars advertised for a lot of money but don't know if it's realistic pricing of if they're selling for that sort of money.

Mechanically, this car is superb. It runs beautifully, doesn't use a drop of water or oil, and runs beautifully on LPG after Simon set it up properly. For a 19 year old car with 119k on the clock, the bodywork is in great shape and has an amazing shine bar a few marks here and there. I'm likely going to get the bulge on the rear bumper sorted out before I advertise it properly too.

Anyway, mechanically she's had a ton of work done in the 4 years I've had her, the list as far as I can remember (probably a few things missed) is below:

4 Air springs
Compressor Refurb
Valve Block Refurb
Air Suspension Relay
PAS Pipe
Full service kit x 3
LPG Reducer
Plug Leads (Magnecor KV85)
Aux Belt
Both Aux Belt Idlers & Tensioner
Coolant Pipes for throttle body and radiator return
Heater Matrix O Rings
Tailgate Struts
Bonnet Struts
ABS Accumulator
HEVAC Repair Ribbon & Bulbs
Wipers
Headlight Wipers
Air Con Condenser
Air Con Drier
Air Con Recharge
Radius arm bushes
Panhard rod bushes front and rear
Steering Damper
Drop Links
Anti Roll Bar bushes
Exhaust - Cats, Centre section and back boxes
Rear axle oil seals
Rear pads due to oil contamination
Rear callipers cleaned and painted
Front and Rear diff oil
New Rubber Mats
Transfer Box Oil
Both gearbox oil cooler pipes
Gearbox Oil Cooler
Genuine LR gearbox filter
Both air con pipes that run along the bulkhead
Plenum Foam on scuttle panel
3 Air Con Pipes under bonnet
Scuttle Panel Plenum Foam
Steering Box Input Shaft
Steering Box
BECM Repair to resolve central locking issues
Track Rod
Drag Link
2 Lambda Sensors (Bosch)
Replacement Amplifier
2 New Subwoofer Speakers fitted to original Enclosure
Grill and headlight trims painted
Tow bar removed, blasted and repainted
4 new Dunlop EAS height sensors
2 new front height sensor heat shields
Tow bar converted to full 13 pin electrics inc split charge
Tracking
Air Con Recharge
Half Leather/Half Wood Steering Wheel
4 new Michelin Cross Climate SUV tyres (done less then 2000 miles)

Pictures of her are here:

https://rangerovers.pub/topic/503-2002-vogue-se-restoration-thread?page=8#pid28555

Would appreciate any thoughts on value too as I'm not really sure where to place her.

Thanks,
David.

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I intend putting the 2001 Vogue that I bought a half share of with a mate on up for sale on Car & Classic which seems to be the place for anything decent. There's a couple of ones on at the moment to give you a clue https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1316847 which is nothing special and https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1309255. Or put it in one of their auctions and give the full history and loads of pictures like this https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/auctions/1976-mercedes-benz-2304-ZgOxpn with a sensible reserve.

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Decent late Vogue and VSE models are going for £5000 and up.

There was a VSE the exact same as yours that sold for 8k I believe, so yeah..

values aren't what they once were!

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Go top price (and be willing to negotiate). The condition warrants it!
Is easy to under-sale or give away the fruit of your efforts and you'll never get that back ... don't make a present to the next guy! Make it worth!

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If you're not in a rush, ask 9 and get 6-8. Nice looking car...

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Trouble is with Vogue's ---- which ones are real ---- 2000 onwards chrome badge ---- buy on eBay for few quid ----- my 99 Vogue' se badge is made from greyish colour letters ----- so unless you really now what to look for 🙄

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It’s easy enough to check the logbook to see which ones are real.

There’s apps on your phone that will show you what model they are after entering the registration number. Both of mine show as “Vogue SE” when looking them up.

David.

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Right, I’m getting some serious grief about the number of cars I have sat around at the moment so this needs to go. I’m going to be washing it and trying to get some pictures of it at the weekend. I’m not going to have time to get the rear bumper sorted so will be prepared to negotiate on that accordingly.

If anyone wants a cracking, sorted P38, give me a shout :) I’d love it to go to an enthusiast home.

David.

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When you look at p38s for sale some are roughly £1300 average yet some are advertised at £8000 ---- can't understand why as they're going up slowly in value but people only keep on about air suspension or overheating on V8s so can't see them going up silly like classic has ---- Original Discovery 1 going up faster

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If you P38 experts can't tell the difference between a real Vogue etc and a normal P38, why would anyone pay so much more for a real one? Why wouldn't a buyer rather save maybe 50%(?) on the buy price and stick a Vogue badge on the back? Even if they buy a real one, if they come to sell it other buyers might think it a potential fake?

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A Disco 1 rots so quickly soon they will be completely extinct so the few that remain will go up in value purely on rarity (although having used one from brand new in 1993 until it was pensioned off at 10 years old, I can't understand why anyone would want one).

It isn't so much the Vogue that fetches good money, it's cars that have been looked after. A Vogue is not much higher specced than an HSE, just it came with everything as standard rather than almost everything and many buyers added the bits it didn't have as options. The only one that is really different is the Vogue SE which came with everything.

There's dogs of P38s about that have been abused and neglected (the only reason a V8 will overheat) and then there's ones that have been looked after and are worth good money. This one, a Jap import, on coil springs (and sitting too high so will likely handle like a blancmange), the book showing on the HEVAC, peeling aftermarket stick on plastic wood and nothing really special, didn't reach the reserve https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/auctions/2000-p38-range-rover-46-hse-w8evOg? but still reached a good price.

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That looks like the place to sell em, 5900 was a good price, if I got half of that I’d be happy lol

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I don't think the P38's time has come yet. There are too many around, they have a bad reputation for reliability and they have long been regarded as the runt of the Land Rover litter by the Benny-Hat wearing One Lifers. This is excellent news for anyone wanting a luxury car for an absolute bargain, but not so great for collectors.
dhallworth, if I was in your position I'd hold if practical. Nice examples will get rarer and their prices will rise. Will the P38 be regarded as a classic? It's hard to tell, but my gut says it won't ever be The One to be seen in. The cars that do really well are the ones that kids lusted after in their teens/twenties and still want to buy when they have some disposable income in middle age. Did anyone have a picture of a Range Rover on their bedroom wall?

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Not really a common sight the P38 in production terms the P38 is one of the rarest mainstream LR models to date 167k P38's were sold worldwide compared to 325k RRC but the classic sold 325k over a period of 25yrs the P38 on the other hand sold 167k in 7yrs or there abouts, so LR got something right..

As for the runt of the litter, to be fair I'm struggling to imagine any LR that isn't regarded as such no LR is known for its build quality

The P38 was the last Range Rover with its roots in Spen kings design and as such I believe it is the last of the "classic" Range Rovers, Spen apparently quite liked the P38 he regarded the later cars L322 onwards being and I quote saying that vehicles like the Range Rover he created were "never intended as a status symbol but later incarnations of my design seem to be intended for that purpose"

Many Motoring mags and online features seem to think the P38's time has come, seeing as the RRC is out of reach to most with most early and late models fetching obscene prices, the P38 is the bridge between the original and the l322..

It has all the best features of the RRC without the Rot and many other additions besides that makes it a true classic..

As for me I did have a Picture of a P38 on my bedroom wall, I used to cat the big pictures out of my Dads LR owners magazines "much to his dismay" and stick them to my wall...

As for the "to be seen in" the L322 RR is the most common model I see on the roads, the P38 is a far rarer sight i'd say P38 to my eye is a classy motor
The P38's reputation for unreliability is well known but as is the RRC's reputation for not only going wrong but also turning to dust, i'd much rather play with electricals than weld up and unending horror story..

As for what people will pay, there are 2dr and some 4dr RRC's changing hands for over 40k around 6yrs ago you couldn't give the rattily things away!

LOL

https://buy.motorious.com/articles/features/300001/range-rover-p38-modern-classic
https://classicsworld.co.uk/guides/buying-guide-range-rover-p38a/

H

But again we all have opinions eh!!

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Lpgc wrote:

If you P38 experts can't tell the difference between a real Vogue etc and a normal P38, why would anyone pay so much more for a real one? Why wouldn't a buyer rather save maybe 50%(?) on the buy price and stick a Vogue badge on the back? Even if they buy a real one, if they come to sell it other buyers might think it a potential fake?

Post 1999 all 4.6 V8's were Vogues the 4.6 from the HSE line was dropped to separate the models the Vogue being the one with the bigger motor and more wood on the inside.
Only the 4.0 if spec'd could only be an HSE the Diesel itself got an upgrade to DHSE and that pretty much it..

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They'll get there as more decent ones appear on the market and more people start to appreciate them. Prior to the P38 there was the Classic which was pretty basic initially and not that much different to a Defender but with added luxury features such as deeper carpets, electric windows, air con, leather seats and the sort of things that luxury car buyers wanted. But it was still the same old design underneath. The Disco 1 was merely a budget, re-bodied Classic so was accepted as a 'proper' Land Rover by the One Life bunch. The P38 was designed as a luxury car but retaining, and improving on, the off road capabilities. Being seen as a luxury car, the purists immediately didn't like it, it wasn't a proper Land Rover. The complexity, for it's time (which compared with a car 10 years newer is pretty basic), wasn't understood, even by the dealers, and initial weaknesses meant it got the reputation for being unreliable. Which, in truth it was and, as even the dealers didn't really understand it, that reputation stuck. For 97MY there were numerous minor changes made to address the weak points and the advent of mandatory OBD2 compliance from 2000 would have meant a complete redesign of the GEMS engine management so a switch to the Bosch Motronic, already in use by numerous other manufacturers (including BMW who owned LR at the time), was the obvious next step. But it's interesting to note that the One Life crowd haven't accepted anything later than the Disco but the P38 appeals to a different class of buyer.

I think I've proved that a P38 can be reliable. When they do need work doing, they are easy to work on, parts are readily available (and cheap) and I wouldn't swap mine for an L322 at all. I might swap the Ascot for one as that is a standby, ready to be used if I'm halfway through a job on mine and need to go out and pick something up, but if I've got a 3,000 mile trip to do, I know which one I'll take.

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StrangeRover and Richard are both right, but my opinion is that it still remains to be seen if the P38 will really take off as a classic. It hasn't yet, and there are reasons which would make me hesitant to bet the farm - not least of which is what we're going to do with thirsty old V8s when the LPG dries up.

Yes, they are good cars. Their problem is that they are widely misunderstood so people don't immediately say "Ooh, look at that" when they see one go past in the same way that they do for an E30 M3, Lancia Integrale, Escort Mexico or Sierra Cosworth - all of which could be bought for £5k at some point in their history.

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I’m with Morat on this. Cant see them appreciate to the same degree as the Classics have....

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But as the values of Classics have gone through the roof, even if they get half way, it'll be good. I paid £900 for my Classic LSE, kept it for 4 years and sold it for £2,300. I had been hoping to get what I paid for it back and was godsmacked when it went for what it did. I suspect by now, it would sell for double that despite being a bit scruffy but reasonably solid (or as solid as any Classic can be).

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I bought my 1997 Jeep Cherokee 4.0 for £999 with a dodgy MOT and a barely working LPG system in 2013.
It's now worth about 6-7k. Bargain? kinda. I've probably spend £6k on it rectifying faults and upgrading here and there. It now runs beautifully (although it's about to get another HG). It's no Ferrari 250SWB California but I'll hang onto it.
I've certainly enjoyed owning it a lot more than sticking £200 a month into a finance plan to drive a generic hatch.