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The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse.
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Joined: Sep 14 2016
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My pal Mike has pretty much decided to get a P38 for second car / caravan tug duties. Estimates around 3,000 miles a year, keep at least 5 years. I've been roped in as the expert consultant to ensure he doesn't buy a money pit. Pretty much settled on a Thor V8. Even at V8 thirst he will save a bundle on payments towards the His part of His'n Hers cars. Given the fairly limited price range covering nice cars on wildly different mileages I'm wodering what the spending on parts over and above ordinary servicing is for various mileages.

I suggest he waits to find something in the 65,000 to 75,000 (ish) miles range which will cost a bit more but, judging by my car which I got at 77,000 miles with pretty much everything except one airbag original, around £2,000 should cover the expected replacements up to 100,000 mile range.

However he is also looking at cars in the 100,000 to 140,000 mile range which claim to have most of the first stage part replacements covered. But 100,000 to 140,000 mile cars seem to be £1,000 to £1,500 cheaper. I'm my view such cars are likely to be false economy but I don't have a handle on what extra replacements are likely to be needed and what the risk of serious engine work is.

Clearly anything beyond 150,000 will be just too leggy and has a good chance of needing engine work in his ownership. Which isn't going to be viable as Mike's looks at engine work like Marty does. Patch it up till the next pop isn't gonna happen.

Clive

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Joined: Mar 22 2016
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It's not the mileage, it's the previous owners and there maintenance, I've paid a grand for a top spec 97. Had no problems at all, then I've spent 2 grand on supposedly well looked after rigs, with nothing but hassle. you need to see receipts for parts at least, just go over the car best you can, you've got to expect some perishable items to need replacing, air bags, cheap as chips, it's more engine, if it's smooth, gearbox good, then have a look

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Joined: Jan 06 2016
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As Chris says ^ Clive, low mileage is no guarantee that you'll get a great car. Perishables (air bags, hoses, lines) fail with age not mileage. Corrosion happens with age (and environment of course) not mileage.
I'll be a bit controversial and say that head gaskets, heater cores, air bags, EAS pumps and valve blocks, water pumps are service items and if they haven't been changed at least once on a 15 year old car, then they'll need doing.
My old '95 HSE 4.6 lpg 130000 miles has had all of the above (and a lot more) in its time and, faced with a long towing trip, although the shininess of a low mileage unproved alternative would be attractive, I'd choose my old one every time!
I'm sure Gilbertd, as resident towmeister and mileage king would agree.
Consider one with an lpg fit as well. Even if your friend's rolling in cash, the savings on running costs are an eye-opener.

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Joined: Sep 14 2016
Posts: 518

Thanks for that guys. I think I've got him calmed down a bit and the nose ring in (bit of a bull & gate type). When I posted was looking at 6 hours in the car to see "real nice" (?) 135,000 mile car at £3,500 (ish) if cash waved around and driving it home for him that day if he bought it. Figured we are both old enough and ugly enough to avoid getting caught with major mechanical issues but I wanted some idea as to what the second round of aged out / end of life parts was likely to include so I could make sure that things due soon had been changed. Absolutely didn't want to risk catching the "still good looking but we will sell it now before it needs money spent" car. That one was from a serial owner semi-trader type too "best P38 I've seen" quote. Oh Yeah! Got my wiskers twitching. You can do quite well from such folk as they see more cars and have a vested interest in picking decent ones but they have to unload everything without loosing out so their mistakes just get passed on.

Anyway back on familiar territory as he's agreed to hang on for something like mine was when I got it. Looked after, normal servicing to good standard but not very far into the replacements cycle, if at all. Hopefully steering clear of the P38 values are rising mob. Mine was £3,000 in 2011 with 77,000 miles so they are holding their money.

Clive

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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Clive603 wrote:

but I wanted some idea as to what the second round of aged out / end of life parts was likely to include so I could make sure that things due soon had been changed. Absolutely didn't want to risk catching the "still good looking but we will sell it now before it needs money spent" car.

All of them and everything then. Irrespective of mileage you are looking at a car that is 15+ years old so things will have reached pensionable age and any car is going to start failing because it can. I bought mine at 204,000 miles needing head gaskets and rear air springs but no sooner had I done those and started using it, everything else that fails on a P38 failed. The fact that it had spent the first 8 years of it's life being thrashed mercilessly up and down the M6 when it wasn't being used to drag dead HGVs off the motorway meant it had had a hard life but would have also been maintained well. No amount of maintenance, other than replacing them as a service item, will stop the blend motors dying for instance. Ignore mileage and go on service history. Get one that's had the major work done rather than one that is low mileage and looks pretty but has been neglected.

Here's a classic one to avoid unless you want to spend a lot of time getting it sorted http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-4-6-HSE-V8-P38-Vogue-Alloys-Autobiography-Wood-NO-RESERVE-/122228188219?hash=item1c755e243b:g:0PcAAOSwTA9X4Zd- (although Chris will probably go and buy it.....).

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Joined: Jan 06 2016
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Ah yes, THAT one. Seen that one pass through eBog at least twice. At least he's now being honest about the fact that it's a pretty pile of cr@p
EDIT- too late Chris. He's pulled it off eBog (again!)

Gilbertd wrote:

Here's a classic one to avoid unless you want to spend a lot of time getting it sorted http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-4-6-HSE-V8-P38-Vogue-Alloys-Autobiography-Wood-NO-RESERVE-/122228188219?hash=item1c755e243b:g:0PcAAOSwTA9X4Zd- (although Chris will probably go and buy it.....).

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Joined: Sep 14 2016
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Gilbertd wrote:

ere's a classic one to avoid unless you want to spend a lot of time getting it sorted http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-4-6-HSE-V8-P38-Vogue-Alloys-Autobiography-Wood-NO-RESERVE-/122228188219?hash=item1c755e243b:g:0PcAAOSwTA9X4Zd- (although Chris will probably go and buy it.....).

Be worth a punt if it hadn't been mucked up with coil springs and I could get in my garage. £3,000 and time spent would almost certainly get it good. Hafta be prepared to spend on the do it right do it once principle. Pensionable age parts aren't really the problem folk think. But you must be prepared to be ruthless and strip hmm maybe parts out whilst you are in there. Trying to save £1,000 by cutting corners will haunt you. Easy for me to say 'cos I can afford to do things that way! But not going there on someone elses car 20 miles down t'road! Sorting his Bridgeport was enough nightmare for me.

On the higher mileage ones its finding thems that had major work done properly thats the issue. Most of the high mileage ones are on skimp schedules so lord knows whats been half overlooked, called good enuf for now or outright bodged where it can't be seen. I know where I am on the 65,000 to 80,000 mile cars.

Clive

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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Teeheehee, that's a refreshingly honest ad - apart from "minor compressions in the tailgate" does he mean dents? :)
Anyway, lovely colour. It would make a nice summerhouse.

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Joined: Jan 05 2016
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Ahaha, that's a perfect description of the life of most P38s!

Luck of the draw really finding out whether things have been taken care of properly, regardless of mileage, number of owners etc. My first one had 3 previous owners, and was utterly shagged by the time the third owner laid his hands on it. In the end it was just too much work to continue with and I got my second - which has had 13(!) previous owners, and was in very respectable shape for a car built in 1998, having done at that point 126k. It has had a replacement engine put in it at some point, naturally.

I have since done most of the usual P38 jobs on it too to get it near perfect - door latches, head lining, air conditioning, heated seats, water pump, all the cooling system hoses, heater box flaps and matrix, blend motors, rear brake lines. Various other bits and pieces...

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Clive603 wrote:

Be worth a punt if it hadn't been mucked up with coil springs and I could get in my garage.

I considered it but as I have the SE which is the classic, not been looked after and what work has been done has been done on the cheap, cluttering the place up, decided against it. It's pretty (ish)and with a set of air springs, a compressor rebuild kit and a door latch, it could be sorted for under £300. But, it's an early car, it's had the head gaskets done but what caused the overheat that caused them to need doing? There's a whole heap of trouble lurking under the surface.

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Joined: Jan 06 2016
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Something like this one
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-Vogue-2001-P38-/232136716512?
that I came second (!) in the auction for would fit your spec then Clive?

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Joined: Sep 14 2016
Posts: 518

Orangebean

Yeah pretty much so although I'd rather not have to deal with a headgasket level issue as I can't get a car into the garage at the moment even though the world most over-engineered garage door is sort of working at last. Object is to minimise the chance of getting issues I've not seen or having to sort things that have been Bubba'd or he will have me bouncing back and forth over 20 miles from my place to his like a demented Yo-Yo in horizontal mode every time anything tricky surfaces.

Pity he didn't come up with this idea last month then he could have bought the really nice one at Haisham, only three miles away from him. Or, more likely, I'd have bought it and sold him mine.

Clive

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Clive
Interestingly I've just (1/2 hour ago) had an eBog message from the seller of the one I mentioned above.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-Vogue-2001-P38-/232136716512?
The sale fell through (only one brief contact from buyer) and he's wondering if I'm still interested and want to make a deal before he relists.
I know Chris on here is pretty much the head gasket king. Maybe I could put you in touch with the seller and you could work out something on the car and with Chris to get the head gasket done?
If I had the time to do the work, I'd buy it myself, do the work and flip it as there's money to be made on that car, but with the Vogue SE arriving imminently I don't.
Interested?
Mark

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Joined: Sep 14 2016
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Hi Mark

Thanks very much for the heads up on that car.
I've had chat with Mike and we are going to have a serious think about it overnight. We both have stuff on and may not have time to do the gasket before the new year but if Chris can do the job for what Mike considers reasonable money I'm pretty sure he will go for it.

I'm seeing Mike in the morning, catch up tomorrow.

Clive

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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Cor, if you don't.....
It's got very yummy wheel arches and a large lack of rust. Two of my favorite things :)
If it just needs head gaskets it looks tempting. If it's going to need a top-hatted block, not so much. I guess this one is a bit of gamble but either way you'll end up with a very nice P38.

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Joined: Jan 06 2016
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Yep, it's a gamble but not every HG failure is a slipped liner although some are. Only other issues it has that I gleaned after lengthy correspondence with the seller is needs 2 cracked mirror glasses replaced (ouch if you go photochromic, cheap if not), he can't find service book and indeterminate tread depth on the Scorpion ATR tyres. His handyman couldn't measure them properly!

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Clive- pm sent

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Joined: Sep 14 2016
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Mark- pm sent, eventually haven't quite got the hang of the system.

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Joined: Mar 22 2016
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In 14 yrs of doing heads on rangies I've not come across a slipped liner yet ! Yes it can happen, the cars got a bad rep because of the 1 in a 1000 that might get a slipped liner.
Most head gasket fails seem to be caused by people not using the correct, if any, antifreeze.
It eats the gaskets away between the cylinder and waterways.
NOTE,, antifreeze needs to be changed aswell !

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Joined: Dec 30 2015
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That is very reassuring to hear! Thanks Chris :)
(Now I want that Rangie too... but I can't afford three thirsty 4x4s!)