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Not April 1st - but it made me laugh out loud anyway..... https://www.eco-obd2.net/

"Saves up to 35% in fuel costs", but you can "Save up to $25" by just not buying one of course !

Hilarious..
https://getecodriver.com/article3/uk?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlZL6q8Wu9wIVhUcdCR3NvAxVEAEYASAAEgKMy_D_BwE

No. wait, my mistake, it constantly re-maps your ECU as you drive !!.......

https://getecodriver.com/?cid=wc4opkcqdequ2umfik2plvik&domain=&sub1=&lander=ecodriver-g-uk-a1-l3-p1-c2&offer=&t=1650868039413

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It's almost worth spending $25 to open it up and see what is inside it. A bit like an MSD ignition conditioner that I once found wired in between the distributor and ignition coil on an old, points equipped, Porsche. Couldn't work out what it was supposed to do, broke the security seals and opened it up only to find an empty box......

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Years ago a P38 owner I did some LPG work for told me that he bought a 'power increase and drive-ability improving module' from Ebay for his P38 which wired to the maf sensor. It turned out to be just a 5watt resistor and he knew it wouldn't do much. But that didn't stop him buying a few dozen 5watt resistors and listing them on Ebay as P38 power increase and drive-ability improving modules himself, he sold the lot, made a quick tidy profit and had no complaints.

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Richard: Someone did just that on e-bay several years ago ... c.1m Hits and 1k Comments.... Whilst I did not read many of these Comments (although clearly from some of them there is 'one born every minute'...) I did not see any that said it essentially 'did F All except flash some leds' !! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8vjWXXIJas

Lpgc: Ah yes the old "make the ECU think the block is cold and over-fuel etc" nonsense... Again, one born every minute
However I note this box does not mention LPG, just Benzine and Diesel: So maybe it does not work with LPG !!

EDIT: Oh no, thanks to that youtube nonsense above I just bought one (for £5 on e-bay): Clearly e-bay thinks they are real ?? Well that's good enough of a recommendation for me... (Yes, I know... I just became _one of those 'born every minute'__

I will report back ... eventually - but in the meantime I will be busy dropping more coins down the drain...

Damn... it's a scam !! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgXwfBTKLGU

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I must be going back 20 years+ but there was a system on the market that added LPG to a diesel engine. One was fitted to a Discovery I recall.
It ran both fuels at once, presumably by enriching the air intake with a small amount of LPG. Never heard of it since. Apparently the mpg was very good.
Water injection was another method of increasing mpg. Never hear of that now.

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LPG on diesels is still going and getting more mainstream too with some truck manufacturers fitting it as standard. See https://tinleytech.co.uk/shop/lpg-kits/diesel-front-end/aeb-mp48-df-diesel-lpg-kit-fe-2/ for an aftermarket add on.

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dave3d: Some manufacturers are still developing/considering Water Injection Systems (although it was probably historically overtaken by various Emissions Reduction systems like EGR ?)

Water Injection for petrol engines can give power (and MPG) boost and reduced Emissions but it is very harsh on exhaust systems unless you go '££ full stainless'; For diesels it reduces NOX but increases particulates...

Dabbled with this in the past using a 50/50 Meths. mixture (Long Story); Good for 'steam cleaning' inside the heads too.... It's an old aircraft approach of course - for instance they experimented with the technique on Supermarine Spitfires. We tried it on a Triumph Spitfire.... but with rather inconclusive power/MPG results (but had to replace the whole exhaust): Not tried it though on a P38 (yet) !

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I’ve been an aircraft mechanic for over 40 years. The only water injection on piston engines that I was ever familiar with only used water at full power and it was to prevent detonation, not for fuel economy. I’m not saying it could never be used for fuel economy but I’m also not understanding how it would decrease fuel consumption, unless it would somehow allow you to run a bit leaner. As I understand it, our “modern” EFI engines run very close to ideal fuel/air mixtures already.

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I would think the benefit comes from altering the ignition timing at the same time to take advantage of the better pre detonation characteristics using water injection. It would increase the mass inside the cylinder and lower temperatures. Maybe that's the principle.

As you say Harv, modern engines tune themselves optimally now.

What about AdBlue? it is a urea/ water mix injected into diesel engines to reduce emissions. Does that improve mpg beacuse of the water present?

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I believe you will find AdBlue is injected into the exhaust post combustion, so can't see how it would improve MPG directly. Indirectly by removing the need to regenerate a DPF it might make some difference though overall.

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Harv: For clarification this was tried on Spitfires for power not economy (which was not one of their priorities of course), and I recall it was designated "War Emergency Power" (or similar). ie. to provide temporary boost if/when needed

Here for example it was being used for "anti-detonant" purposes: https://oldmachinepress.com/2020/09/20/napier-h-24-sabre-aircraft-engine/

-Again there are (and have been) many claims about the benefits of Water Injection, but clearly it depends mainly on the engine/aspiration/etc involved of course, eg:
https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/magazine-article-pool/5-litres-of-water-for-500-horses.html
"8% More Power, 8% Less Consumption".... apparently !

Yes, for 'normal' (modern) engines there are certainly much better ways to cool intake temperatures and reduce knocking etc....

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Harv wrote:

As I understand it, our “modern” EFI engines run very close to ideal fuel/air mixtures already.

aren't today's engines tuned for emissions not power and economy (VW diesel gate) i think you can get great improvement if you tune for performance.

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Harv wrote:

I’ve been an aircraft mechanic for over 40 years. The only water injection on piston engines that I was ever familiar with only used water at full power and it was to prevent detonation, not for fuel economy. I’m not saying it could never be used for fuel economy but I’m also not understanding how it would decrease fuel consumption, unless it would somehow allow you to run a bit leaner. As I understand it, our “modern” EFI engines run very close to ideal fuel/air mixtures already.

Yes! and therefore water injection is really only useful on Forced Induction engines where you're cramming a massive fuel charge in at high boost. The humble Rover V8 isn't really going to notice much apart from a bit of steam cleaning, which might be helpful on occasion :)

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usually with aftermarket/"tuner" systems they inject a water methanol mixture, not just plain water, so the methanol has combustive properties. Its mostly about charge cooling and reducing detonation though, which means as above, you can run more boost or more aggressive timing. Doubt it would do much on NA motor.

Even the spitfire application was using it on a supercharged engine. In aircraft, turbo/supercharging is normally used to offset lower atmospheric pressures at higher altitudes. In the spitfire, they rejigged this a little to allow the charger to provide additional boost at lower altitudes when it had "spare" capacity. The water/methanol was thus used to reduce detonation risk in those conditions.

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Aragorn; Indeed, hence my reference to the 50/50 Meths. mix we used - and the 'rather inconclusive results'; Fun to try though, although we did not experiment further on any 'forced induction' rigs, mainly the Triumph 1500 (with SUs).. There was always a chance of 'over-watering' too as we did not really meter it properly... Thus with a P38 that might mean ending up with a couple of 'power bulges' in the bonnet that happened to be cylinder-head shaped ?!

We even tried (neat) vodka once, thus dispelling the 'economy' myth somewhat.... Either way the main result was often just a cloud of vapour out the back; Great for simulating a blown head gasket, not to mention shaking off SMERSH pursuits !!

EDIT: Can't find some of the (ancient ) info. we originally gleaned about all this, again IIRC Water Injection was originally used to prevent Knocking (ie. before they added lead).

That said these (contemporary) aftermarket folks seem to believe it works on Higher-Compression engines too (ie. not just Forced Induction); Not sure I believe all this but I definitely can't believe the prices of their kit.... https://www.holley.com/blog/post/the_science_behind_why_water-methanol_injection_works_so_well/

  • And to think we used an old washer bottle/pump to try this, all in at about a fiver !
    Didn't try Low Temp. Windscreen wash though...... yet....
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I remember tuning firms experimenting with water injection to prevent knock on high boost turbo'd engines again in the early 90's, lots of articles in car mags of the time, kids had it fitted on their modified Escort RS Turbo's lol. I think the general conclusions were no more power to be had but could run a bit more boost without knock. The problem was that if they'd changed other aspects such as lowering the compression or retarding the ignition a bit they could get the same power with less fuel use... and with that in mind most of the setups (on-board water tanks etc) were re-purposed to provide a cooling spray of water externally over the intercooler.

Look at the heat rating for hydrocarbon fuels and there's 2 ratings (a high rating and a low rating). The high rating is the total heat that could be gained if the steam that is produced (steam from combining the hydro bits of the hydro carbon with oxygen from the air to make H2O) is recovered because the steam has re-condensed.. But burning fuel in an engine the steam doesn't have conditions/time to condense before it exits the exhaust so the heat used to evaporate the water isn't recovered because the steam isn't condensed. So engine power is related closer to the low rating of the fuel that is burned (high rating minus the heat that is lost due to turning the water to steam)... but we do get a small portion of that lost power back because the expansion of the steam itself will cause some extra pressure in the cylinder.

My understanding is that the power recovered from steam pressure doesn't outweigh the power lost due to producing the steam... And if we intentionally add extra water to a cylinder (water injection etc) we get bigger losses from producing steam (evaporation has a cooling effect) versus bigger gains from steam pressure in the cylinder but the losses always outweigh the gains.... Unless the boost/compression/rpm/ignition timing condition would usually see the engine knock and the the water injection prevents knock but in that case the engine could probably be re-designed/mapped to prevent knock and still make the same power with less fuel use.

Thermodynamics was invented to make steam engines more efficient but even with today's modern design abilities, insulation and materials it's unlikely they could make a steam engine that runs on petrol as fuel efficient as a modern engine? It takes a lot of energy to produce steam, much of which is lost when the steam engine exhaust ports open, the lost steam then warms wherever it condenses like the opposite of sweating.

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Indeed Lpgc, or, as Scotty once eloquently put it "You Cannae Change the Laws Of Physics" (Jim) !

You are right in that Latent Heat plays a major part in all this (and quite a lot of hype also now too): 'Bang For Your Buck' is key: eg. If you have to re-engineer the whole engine like BMW to accommodate Water Injection then that's going to be pricey... Similarly the 'aftermarket' systems above (like Holley); Will folks really bolt $5Ks's worth of kit on for a (modest) power increase that could be done much better with (more) 'conventional' means ?

Overall then: Water Injection: Power YES, Economy NO !

(PS: Still tempted to try Very Low Temp. Screenwash like this just for the hell of it though...)

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UPDATE: Hurrah, my "ecoOBD2" has arrived, and really I could not wait to try it !!

Sure enough when you plug it in and push the button the three coloured Leds flash (at random..): Great, I can't wait to save fuel either... !

Oh no, I opened it up and it actually just connects to the Eth. and Power pins... Hmmm, perhaps it uses 'magic' then ?
Even worse it seems to just have a 555 Timer chip within, although the designation on it was removed......
perhaps to stop folks plagiarising this amazing money-saving unit ??

but wait... on the 'instructions' it states:

"ecoOBD2 will recognise your vehicle and your driving habits, after around 200km/150miles driving and thus ecoOBD2 will adjust itself to match your car perfectly for more fuel saving "

  • Ok some odd syntax in their text there but it's from China... but it has a CE mark. and RoHS, FCC marks etc..
    So it must really work, right ?

Interestingly on the Customs Label it is described as a Scanner(SH-ELM004-1X)...
Difficult to tell though as the wording is small and it might actually say Scammer ?

Probably just as well then that I just planned to remove the PCB and use the box for a Plug-In Voltmeter instead then.... ?
'Nice' they provided the Worlds' Smallest Xmas Tree lights like this though.