While pottering around refitting the dash/ fascia and tidying up loom bodges I found this original label on the loom connecting to SatNav head:

Now I know that the TrafficMaster system was fitted to (I think) Westminsters and Vogue SE A's. I also know that it was somehow fed by those blue speed-camera like boxes on main road bridges etc, it warned of congestion ahead by traffic density counts and was switched off in 2012.
What I don't know is how that information manifested itself in the P38.
A voice on the radio? An indication on the SatNav?
I'd be interested as an archaeological curiousity if anyone knows...

Trafficmaster could use voice or screen: Thus guessing that cable was for GPRS use as in:-

" Trafficmaster's SmartNav package used kit fitted in users' cars and a call/data centre. The car was linked to TrafficMaster by GPRS (and a voice channel for the driver). Drivers could call in to TrafficMaster to ask for a route plan from the call centre; the call centre had real-time traffic data as well as ordinary mapping and locations.

Instructions were delivered by a dashboard speaker or optional screen. The car system had GPS satellite nav, and told TrafficMaster where it went in real time. "

Note: Around the time (c.2005) there were concerns that it would allow 'others' (eg. the Govt.) to track users, leading to the 'unpopularity' of the system....

The bit that's interesting Dave is the fact there's no interface or connection to GPRS. The receiver unit/ brain is in the boot behind the trim, next to the SatNav Drive and the labelled part of the loom plugs into the Satnav head unit. The SatNav itself "talks" through the centre dash speaker rather than the front door speakers on "normal" satnav P38s, so I'm thinking TrafficMaster will talk through there too, so is it picking up location from the GPS unit I wonder? Sounds a bit too techy for 2002!
I have the full leather bound set of manuals for the car (incl audio and nav) but no mention of TrafficMaster.

Without a GPRS connection I don't see how that could have ever worked. You've either got GPRS in the receiver unit or there's something missing.

Best guess OB is these units used GPRS originally and then switched to GPS. Back then GPS was no so accurate as it is now (and frankly GPRS was quite vague too hence the later DGPRS). In other words some car manufacturers probably tried to accommodate (a number of) vehicle-location and mapping technologies (and then they all went GPS eventually of course). As you may know the (external) antennas tended to be multi-function/frequency 'hybrids' too, with lots that were GSM/GPRS and GPS etc.

The irritating thing is many car manuals don't track such changes and may be simply 'generics' (and parts of my P38 manual are a good example of that, too).

The most interesting issue is how a ten-year-old £2K in-built GPS is now about £40 (for a near-equivalent aftermarket option).... and I wonder how many screens for these ££ SavNavs which went bad then just became a place to put your Tom-Tom sucker on ?! The other main idea of inbuilt stuff is to stop it being stolen but I will not pay £2K for that particular 'feature' either ! I know P38 in-built SatNavs have that dire/quirky powering-up (self-destruct) 'feature' too of course (aka bad design)....

GPRS is General Packet Radio Service, ie a data connection over mobile phone.
There needed to be some data connection back to traffic master to make this system work, and in the original version you called Traffic Master yourself to ask about the traffic and they updated your satnav over the air. Frankly it was a crap system and not worth investigating - but it's interesting that the loom connection is still there.

Google Maps beats all on board satnav hands down (IMO).

When Trafficmaster first came out it used an LED display to show you if there was congestion in front, behind or to the left or right of you and, unsurprisingly, it never took off as there was no way of knowing exactly where the congestion was. The second generation system was simply a button on the dash that you pressed and it called an operator. You told them where you wanted to go and got spoken directions over a mobile phone connection. That wasn't particularly successful either.

In 2002 we got a load of new company cars, a mix of Modeos and Peugeot 406s. The 406 came with a factory sat nav while the Mondeos came with Trafficmaster installed. The 406 system was first generation with a system that simply showed you which way to turn at the next junction, had to be programmed by typing in the town and street with a remote control and ran from a CD in the boot. It worked but wasn't that good. After a couple of years the Trafficmaster subscriptions were cancelled as everyone said it was crap and the CD's in the 406 system were out of date. It was cheaper to buy everyone a TomTom rather than buy the updated mapping CD.

This is my objection to things like the fully integrated system in the L322. It may have been state of the art when the car came out 14 years ago, but now it isn't. There's no DAB or Bluetooth, line in or a USB slot, the systems with a TV built in have analogue tuners, the sat nav is pretty basic with no speed camera warnings, traffic re-routing or anything else we take for granted on a current Garmin, TomTom or Google Maps app on a phone and the maps are still on a CD or DVD which costs a stupid amount of money to update. At least with the P38 if you want to upgrade the audio system for something with a few more modern features you can, but you can't on anything later.

Have to add here that sometimes when I am poking about in the boots of old(er) cars i find 'mystery looms' too; Often for Car Phones (when these were the size of a briefcase) and often it is also very difficult to know what they did and where they go (and whether they can be used for something else etc) and so in a way it was good of LR to provide that TrafficMaster label...... maybe

As for DVD-Based in-dash SatNav systems yes, many manufacturers were (and still are) convinced that folks will pay £££ for updates. In reality we should just be able to connect them via Wi-Fi etc and update them via our home networks (but where all their revenue in that ?)

I'll stick to my TomTom, "lifetime" updates and fits in my pocket for when I hire a car in the south of Spain.

I think the updates are much like main dealer servicing. It may be done in the first 5 years of a cars life, then after that it gets left.

I fell out of love with TomTom when I heard they'd been providing speed data to the Government so they could optimise the placement of Cash Machines.. sorry... Speed Cameras.

That's a new one. An interesting conspiracy theory but how do TomTom get the information? A sat nav is a receiver, there's no bi-directional communication, it simply receives the signals from the GPS satellites and the traffic information embedded in the RDS of Classic FM and, in some cases, DAB radio transmissions.

Apologies for linking to the Daily Wail :)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1381491/TomTom-apologise-selling-customer-satnav-data-used-police-speed-traps.html

Ahh, that happened in Holland so it's all Tony's fault. But it still begs the question of how did Tom Tom get the information in the first place. I suppose people could have been asked to upload details of their journeys under the pretext of identifying areas of congestion? Using Google maps on your phone could easily do it though, and I wouldn't put anything past Google especially if someone was prepared to pay them for the information......

Spot on! Good supposition.

Gilbertd wrote:

I suppose people could have been asked to upload details of their journeys under the pretext of identifying areas of congestion?

In the world of (so-called) Data Protection this is basically nonsense of course: http://www.tomtom.com/page/facts

So customers voluntarily 'opted in' so TomTom and Co. could make some money from speeding .... really ?

Wait .....the collected data is anonymous - so that's Ok then; Only other motorists suffer... and so their data can be used against us (and so on)

Yes, Apple and Co. could/can do similar of course: Waiting to get a text message from the cops telling me my iPhone/movements/speed/etc were monitored and so I should report to the local nick immediately....

I admit, I'm the blame and get paid for it. How should I (being a pensioner) be able to maintain a P38?

Google do indeed upload your Maps journey data, but they make no secret of it. It's the basis for their crowd sourced congestion information which is one of the reasons I really like the product. That, and it being available for Yorkshire's favorite price :) On the upside, they're already so rich they probably wouldn't be interested in a few paltry million from the Governement ;)

Well, the Trafficmaster fit turned out to be a bigger issue than I thought. Turned out that there were 2 identical 6 pin sockets on the back of the Nav head, one for the "normal" nav connector C0820 and one for the TrafficMaster nicely labelled cable.
Only problem was that the pic that I took of the lower console rear connectors came out black (bit of lens finger problem I think) so head scratching as to which goes where. ETM doesn't even mention or show the TM fitment, so the location picture for the connectors in ETM doesn't help.
The "set" on cables was such that each could go in either socket.
Having to use best judgement guess and assume C0820 goes in the socket that lines up with the white latching one (as per the ETM connector view) and the TrafficMaster goes in the one above.
50/50 that it works or alternately 50/50 that I toast the Nav unit. I don't like the odds, but don't have an alternative.
Bugger.