Yesterday I removed a complete LPG system from a Disco3 with Jag engine.

System comprises 95L 4 hole full toroidal tank (was underslung), Agis electronics and injectors, KME reducer, BRC style forced lube system.

The owner will be selling the lot, probably on Ebay.

He said he doesn't much like LPG anyway, and besides, Guy Salmom (his preferred Landrover dealers) won't have the vehicle in their shop with the LPG system installed, not even just to service it. I did mention he could have taken it to one of the many other LR specialists but he wanted it removing and had me spell out very specifically on his receipt that all of the LPG system was removed to appease Guy Salmom!

The tank was a pita to remove, bolts all seized and difficult to access... angle grinder job! Cut the rear bolts easily but couldn't get to the front bolts until I'd slipped a jack in between the tank and Disco underframe to pry the tank down a bit, even then I had to put a 9" cutting wheel on a 6" grinder to reach a front bolt... the big disk spinning so close to my hand in a hard to reach spot wasn't something I enjoyed! With only 1 bolt remaining I fatigued it off rather than repeat the risky cutting.

The bits would fit and work on other LR models including P38s but the front end bits would be a bit difficult to get spare parts for, The 4 hole tank will be the most valuable and useful part here but will need a bit of work - new solenoid post, coil, will come without a filler or JIC filling pipe, I'd advise a new level sender, it'll need wire brushing and paint.

If anyone contacts the seller don't mention this post ;-)

Simon

Any idea who did the original install? Usually the only time anyone says they don't like LPG is when the system doesn't work properly so they assume all LPG converted cars don't run right. I've had people comment about mine and ask how I put up with all the hassle and they don't believe me when I tell them it never gives any hassle, runs just as well, if not better, on gas than petrol and costs me less to run than a diesel. No brainer in my opinion and if it were my car I'd tell Guy Salmon where to stuff it (not that I'd be seen dead taking a car to a main dealers anyway).

Some people are just a waste of breath. I've had the LPG conversation with people who seem to think I'm selling fuel magnets or magic beans. Frankly, if Simon can't talk the guy round to LPG he must be one stubborn mofo ;)

Morat wrote:

Some people are just a waste of breath. I've had the LPG conversation with people who seem to think I'm selling fuel magnets or magic beans. Frankly, if Simon can't talk the guy round to LPG he must be one stubborn mofo ;)

I'd hazard a guess there is some sort of issue with the Disco that Guy Salmon are refusing to fix and using the lpg as a Cop-out reason to do so blaming it for causing the issue. It shows you how stupid some people are when they ask why your waiting at the different looking pump and not using any of the others available.

Gilbertd wrote:

Any idea who did the original install? Usually the only time anyone says they don't like LPG is when the system doesn't work properly so they assume all LPG converted cars don't run right. I've had people comment about mine and ask how I put up with all the hassle and they don't believe me when I tell them it never gives any hassle, runs just as well, if not better, on gas than petrol and costs me less to run than a diesel. No brainer in my opinion and if it were my car I'd tell Guy Salmon where to stuff it (not that I'd be seen dead taking a car to a main dealers anyway).

Absoluetly agree! When Michael is actually working (as he isn't at present!) he runs FAR better on LPG than on acual petrol. There's no discernible loss of power and the oil stays lovely and clean between changes. Plus that's with an ANCIENT Zavoli GE system installed back in 1999 just after he was born!

I had someone notice my changeover switch last week and comment that they were surprised I run on LPG as the engine will be worn out in 50,000 miles. So I turned the ignition on and pointed out the odo showing 336,000 miles. There is so much bollox talked by people that know nothing about it. The LR V8 is an old generation engine so an old generation LPG system is going to work fine, Christ, I'm running a Leonardo single point on mine.

However, I did convert someone yesterday. While waiting for the Ascot to go into the workshop for the MoT and chatting to the owner of the garage and another customer. Customer also owned a Nissan Leaf EV but was saying that the lack of range meant it wouldn't suit everyone but when the oil runs out we'll have no alternative. I pointed out that I run on a byproduct so there'll still be Propane around for a long time yet. At that point the MoT tester started my car up to drive it into the test bay and the rumble of the V8 made him look. Told him that was on LPG and by the time we'd finished he went away with the idea of using his EV for commuting but getting a V8 on LPG for long journeys......

P38 plus LPG means a double helping of bollox from folk who don't know what they are talking about.
Still mumbling about conversion for mine, or, more likely getting on with Plan A (next year) which is proper "car to keep" rebuild on higher spec than my HSE including all new LPG. Unfortunately closest LPG to me is 15 miles or so away and retired guy doesn't get out much.

Clive

Depends on the mileage you do as to whether it is worth it. Even with a self install, it's still a 4 figure outlay and are you going to get the benefit from it? In saying that, it is nice not even having to think about fuel cost when 200+ miles is under 40 quid.

Oops, my thread but I wasn't watching it...

Gilbertd wrote:

Any idea who did the original install? Usually the only time anyone says they don't like LPG is when the system doesn't work properly so they assume all LPG converted cars don't run right. I've had people comment about mine and ask how I put up with all the hassle and they don't believe me when I tell them it never gives any hassle, runs just as well, if not better, on gas than petrol and costs me less to run than a diesel. No brainer in my opinion and if it were my car I'd tell Guy Salmon where to stuff it (not that I'd be seen dead taking a car to a main dealers anyway).

I don't know who fitted it, owner said it ran OK on LPG he just didn't want it.
Obviously I agree with all the pro LPG sentiments on this thread! It was either I remove it or he'd get someone else to remove it, the owner didn't want the conversation about why, had already decided.

I hate this thread! It's just proving that my DSE has the wrong lump fitted to it!

Smiler wrote:

I hate this thread! It's just proving that my DSE has the wrong lump fitted to it!

---

Your DSE has the right lump fitted to it- for a DSE!
Now the petrol/ LPG/ diesel debate as to what is the best lump for a P38 will run and run, mainly amongst those who don't have the top hat linered late 4.6 V8 LPG in their cars and need to try to (and generally fail to) justify why their choice is better :) :)

I don't know much about what diesel engines were fitted in Rangerovers other than Smiler's DSE probably doesn't have the 2.5td 4 cylinder VM engine (6 cylinder BMW engine?). Did some Rangerovers have the VM engine (I was under the impression they did)? I had the VM engine in a Ford Scorpio (ugly bug eyed model), it did the business but I had to helicoil it's rocker bolts and had to fit another alternator when the vac pump (rear of alternator) oil seal went and dumped oil into the alternator. The alternator was the same as a Transit diesel's except the pulley had a greater number of grooves for the wider fanbelt. Transit alternators cheap and aplenty, Scorpio diesel alternators expensive and few/far-between. Can't remember if I fixed the original alternator (rear bearing) or fitted a Scorpio pulley onto a Transit alternator. Bought the car cheap because it'd already done high mileage and the drivers electric seat would lean back but wouldn't lean back forwards, the switch itself had broken... a 30 minute fix using another switch and a relay that switched polarity to the seat motor when the original switch was operated to lean back if the new switch was in the on position. . I added another 100000 miles on that car and sold it when a manual gearbox bearing went at 260000 miles, mostly on red stuff / veg oil. The 2.9 petrol would have been as cheap to run if converted to LPG and if I'd paid for normal diesel. I once did 1000 miles in a 1.7 diesel Astra for £18 of fuel but these days LPG is the cheapest way to go, could say you get the nicer engine note, power and drive-ability as a bonus ;-)

2.5 straight six Turbo diesel - M51. Only Diesel engine ever fitted to the P38.

A good engine (once remapped) but a bit stretched in a P38.

The VM was fitted to the early diesel Range Rover Classics when they realised that some people baulked at the fuel consumption of the 3.5 litre V8 and there was a demand for a diesel version. It was a sort of interim until they started fitting the 300 TDi lump into the Classic. Then the P38 came out with the BMW unit as BMW owned Land Rover at the time (so they could steal the 4 wheel drive technology and put it in the X5).

The BMW diesel engine was already selected for the p38 BEFORE BMW took ownership of land rover... according to the bible anyway! Believe it or not, but LR apparently actually selected that engine for the RR... I hate to think what the competition was...

If it makes you feel better Simon... I only manage 16.5mpg on LPG still... bit at current prices ober my last few of fills (and probably nearly 2K miles since summer camp) it works out about 18p/mile to run the 4.6 ;)

Martyuk wrote:

If it makes you feel better Simon... I only manage 16.5mpg on LPG still...

Cor, that's good. I get between 13.5 and 14.5 mpg out of mine depending on how much weight is in it and how hard I drive it. But, with the price of LPG that's worked out at a cost equivalent of 27 to 32 mpg compared with running on petrol. So still cheaper than a diesel even if not by much.

I think in the real world they are probably about the same expense per mile.

Benefit of the diesel:
I don't have to divert (and so spend money depending on where the nearest one is) to the filling station as often.
Less complication.
A bit easier to work on.
Cheaper to service (no plugs, leads, LPG system).

Benefit of the V8:
Its not a diesel!
Better driving experience (less revy).
Better comfort.
Better torque and power.
Quieter, and not unpleasant when it does make a noise.

But as the main driving factor with a purchase of a P38 is the condition of the vehicle I shall stick with what I've got as I seem to have bagged a tidy one. :)

Filling stations with LPG are probably more common than you think, you just aren't looking out for them. I've got 5 within 5 miles of where i live and when on a long journey I've never been able to not find somewhere on my route where I can fill up, it just needs a little bit of extra planning if it's a route I haven't used before. Agreed on the less complication side but that also depends on what system you have fitted and how old it is.

As for Marty's 16.5 mpg, I just worked it out compared to mine. At 16.5 mpg I would get 241 miles from a 65 litre fill compared with the 200-220 I currently get but as I'm running the single point, I only use a thimbleful of petrol to start and it changes over to LPG immediately. So I'm running solely on LPG. With Marty's multipoint, it starts and warms up on petrol so unless it is a continuous run with no stops and re-starts, he's running on petrol for the first mile or so after starting so the 16.5 isn't solely on LPG, but on a mix so there probably isn't much in it.

My first Range Rover was a '93 Classic LSE with the 4.2 V8 on LPG. I bought it from a mate of a mate with nothing working properly, heater blowers, central locking, electric windows, interior lights, etc were all considered irrelevant by him but his missus hated it. He replaced it with a DHSE P38 which his missus loved as it was comfy and shiny and everything worked. He hated it as, compared to what he'd had, he had to thrash it mercilessly to get anything approaching the sort of performance he was used to and, as a result, could only get 25 mpg out of it so it was costing him more to run than the V8 had. Like you say, there's little to choose in running costs (but with LPG working out marginally cheaper) but as you say, it's overall condition that is far more important.

There are a couple of LPG filling points near me, just not the two closest garages that I use. It would require a detour. I'd be doing this detour a little more often than my present range with a full tank, the fill up would just cost less. But is a marginal consideration.

Wind up partially worked ;-)

My nearest garage with LPG is a services on the A1 2 miles away, there are another 5 or so within about 7 miles all cheaper than the A1 (and especially cheap at the Calor depot) but for convenience I tend to fill new conversions on the A1 and I'll top up my car there if desperate. The permanently fixed tank on my car will hold about 65L but I usually have a second tank in the boot holding another 80L (not much bother to remove it if I need the space). If I need anything like the 145litres the combined tanks will hold I'd rather make a special trip to Calor or another of the cheap garages, saving maybe £15 of the price I'd pay at the A1, £13 if I factor in the extra driving.

Simon