Inserting the stud hand tight then torquing from the top contradicts all the advice given when I was working for MoD. There it was always said that the stud insertion torque should always be greater than the nut torque so the stud becomes a rigid part of the assembly. The sliding friction in the threads and under the nuts is a significant and very variable consumer of the torque applied. Two lots of initially loose threads tightening up together aren't going to help get consistent tension across all the studs. Not to mention wind-up in the stud itself as the nut tightens up and gets enough grip on the stud to twist the bottom a bit tighter too. That wind up will relax over a few warm-up cool down cycles.

Such issues are why stretch bolts were invented. The whole point with those being that the lengthwise yield curve is long and well controlled so adding a defined extra fraction of a turn from an initial torque setting low enough that bolt to bolt variation in frictional effects don't significantly alter the starting tension. Stretch bolts grow considerably more lengthwise than a normal bolt of similar diameter but have most of the same strength in twist so they don't suffer greatly from wind-up. For the best part of a decade I used to get sent data on the various weird bolts and fasteners used in big structural jobs with integrated torque and stretch measurement capabilities. Absolute zero relevance to my job but interesting, and a bit scary in the maths. I guess you really don't want the bolts falling out of a bridge, pylon or skyscraper.

No reason why studs couldn't be effectively re-engineered into the Rover V8 for performance at least as good as the best standard stretch bolts can do. But to me that leaflet is pretty conclusive indication that ARP aren't it.

Clive

Worth keeping a suitably sized transparent / translucent plastic box about the place to work in when "nail bomb potential" items have to be disassembled. I started out with the big ice cream tubs but now tend to overkill with one of the bigger, but not the biggest, ones from the bargain place. Probably something like 30" x 18" x 18". Bought to hold certain stuff thats easy to empty out when needed for other duties so it gets used. One day I shall make a dooby to hold a small vice securely. Gotta find a good enough ball joint pivoting type vice at the right price point first tho'.

Agree with the switch cleaner usually fixes it opinion.

Clive

Unless you know its had new oil recently drain the box, drop the pan, clean and refill. Assuming no suspicious bits lying in the pan or seriously horrible looking transmission fluid coming out. Although its a relatively simple autobox by modern standards its still much more sensitive to fluid quality than the old style ones. So changing oil may be enough to sort it.

Personally I figure 50,000 miles or so is quite enough for any single fill of automatic transmission fluid. Especially as only around 2/3 rds comes out. Whatever the OK for life label says. Cynical moi figures its quite true to say the modern vision that fluid lasts for the life of the box is quite true given that the box goes bang when the fluid wears out. Which probably isn't quite what the PR and manual writing guys meant. but the her-ladyship runs a T6 L322 (and drives it like its a Hayabusa!).

American shade tree rebuild experience is more about old style all hydraulic boxes, Torqueflights et al, than the modern uber-electronic breed. If you have adequate measuring gear you really can do a proper rebuild in t'shed. Almost all the wearing parts are straightforward mechanical. But then, with a Bristol 603 sitting out front waiting for me to get up enthusiasm to finish de-bodging the body side, I like Torqueflights.

Clive

Seems to depend on your supplier. I got my Dunlops at a very good price, almost 4 for price of 2, but had to order pins separately. Check.

Clive

Ha. The power of the Forum. Post up a question and things start behaving.

Did the contact cleaner thing when all this started. Nearly automatic reaction to reach for the contact cleaner can when electrics troubles are possible.

Up at normal height this morning confirming no serious air leaks, if any. As expected with the ex-LandyAir valve block. Pressure switch resistance this morning was nominal zero so switch appears to be working and tank up to pressure. Usual self levelling dance on start up. Compressor ran for maybe a minute followed by the usual solenoid chunterings and exhaust air puff. Tank probably stayed full overnight. After another minute or so the compressor restarted and ran for about two minutes followed by the usual solenoid chunter and exhaust puff before shutting down. No compressor restart within 5 minutes so it was probably properly shut down.

Put it down to access height and bought it back up to loose some air. Compressor ran for about 2 minutes before stopping. A bit long I felt but not unreasonable. After a short pause following usual the solenoid chuntering and exhaust puff the compressor started up again and ran for a further two minutes before shutting down properly.

Still leaning towards an iffy or sticky pressure switch but same fault on two valve blocks does suggest a car related issue. Same why both problem if its a bad driver pack. I suppose it could be switch on one and driver pack on the other.

Anyway seems to be working acceptably for now. I hate these "didn't understand the problem, not sure if its really fixed" things.

Thanks

Clive

My EAS system has become somewhat ambivalent about turning the compressor off when everything is up to pressure. Takes a short 5 minutes to come up to pressure from all empty so at least I got the compressor rebuild right. Once its up to pressure you get the usual solenoid clicks, small puff from the exhaust, short pause then the compressor runs up again for, usually, a short minute before repeating the cycle. Pause after exhaust puff and compressor run time vary rather pause is always less than a minute, run time sometimes goes over a minute. Sometimes it decides to work normally after an indeterminate number of short run cycles, sometimes it carries on for the whole journey. Occasionally you get a very long discharge from the exhaust suggesting that sometimes it goes well over pressure. Fortunately I've not been out and about much over the winter so its not been a major worry but really need to get it sorted now the wether has turned. I have two valve blocks both of which exhibit the same behaviour. One from LandyAir and my old one which I rebuilt.

Had another go at it today and with the ex-LandyAir valve block it was short-cycling about 3 to 5 times after height adjustment before settling down. The Lynx diagnostics says pressure switch normal during pump up and short cycling and pressure switch low once the compressor is properly stopped. Which is right. The other valve block just keeps short cycling for as long as I was prepared to run things, 10 minutes or so.

Pressure switch is the obvious cause of the problem. But two bad ones seems a bit unlikely. Especially as my valve block worked fine before I fixed it!

Clive

Hafta get my hands on some worn ones and see what can be done about making and fitting new cones then. Its not rocket science, just has to be turned smooth and true. Sorting out how to ensure that it all goes back together is probably a bigger issue. Maybe stainless steel would wear better than brass as being harder.

Deterioration is due to the itsy bitsy bits of brass that are worn off over time by the O ring rubbing on the cone becoming embedded in the O ring surface acting as a sort of grinding block. Once wear starts it just keeps getting worse due to the bits that come off hanging around to grind more off.

Clive

Looks like the seal assembly spun up, tried to walk forward and tore itself apart. Coolant everywhere suggests the seal was failing for a few miles. It takes a while to empty out a reservoir full through the weep hole at operating pressure. If a seal fails from wear in the usual manner you have plenty of time to fix but if it spins up or the body fractures it rips itself apart very quickly. Assuming seal is common style something like this : http://www.agcoauto.com/content/images/cooling/water_pump_cross_section.jpg there is a good chance the mating ring and seal bit are still on the pump shaft and the sheet metal body has just fractured at the back letting the spring and other innards work forwards over the primary seal.

Clive

Wonder what the possibilities are for re-doing the seating in the block? Well worn in this case translates to about 3/8 of not very much actual material wear and there is plenty of free movement on the springs so taking a gnats nubbin or two out ought not to alter the seating pressure enough to stop it working fine. Heck standard model engineer practice with leaky valve seats on their baby (and not so baby) steam locos is to sit a ball bearing on said seat and whack it with a hammer. Said to work for both steel ball and O ring types.

If you have decent machine shop facilities for small parts re-making the valve cones after modifying the design of the unit so it can be put back together looks to be no great issue. Just fiddly. I could do it if I had to, even make a new block from scratch if really pushed, but it all seems more trouble than is worth. That said I've not taken a good look at the valve units so it might be rather easier than I think.

Clive

Ferryman wrote:

Reasonable? The LR price for RVH100030 (valveblock only) is €1450.- ex VAT
One might expect something for that money.

Wouldn't have been anything like that price in bulk to LR ready to bolt on as the car comes down the production line. Parts have always carried a monster mark up relative to actual cost as part of a vehicle. Always used to be reckoned that it would cost you around 4 times as much to build a vehicle from parts as it would to buy. Thats DIY with no labor costs, no factory overheads no yadda yadda to pay either. Just dealer mark-up. Wild guess is ex-factory from whoever makes them is £300-£600 range for small batches. Equivalent in series production price could well have been under half that. Given that its obsolete technology and small market, can't see they would sell many at that price. Of course you do have to factor in the LR "hello Mr Parts Customer, here is your green box now turn round and bend over" bit! LR direct show around half that price for pattern or 2/3 rds for OEM in different colour box which isn't stupidly shabby considering what folk have to pay for similarly complex parts for vehicles that are in production. In many ways we P38 pilots are spoilt because so many parts are flat out cheap by modern standards. Certainly what folk are paying for bits on ordinary VW, Fiat, Renault, Honda and the like scare me.

Still be interesting to see what a functional equivalent from modern standard units would come out at?

Clive

The brass is the hard material in this case so thats what wears. Might well be better material options. At a price. Usual automotive cost-material-design compromise I imagine. Whole valve block is a fairly standard way of doing such control for its era but the usual industrial rated way of doing things would have been too expensive so i imagine the engineers had to work hard to get the price down to something reasonable. Those sort of compromises tend to bite after 10 or 15 years.

Personally I'd look for a screw in valve with fully threaded housing rather than modifying one to be trapped by an O ring. Looks easy enough to modify the hole size and tap appropriately.

Wonder if it would be practical to duplicate the whole unit with modern, miniature, " join the blocks together" style electro-pneumatic parts. Pressure might be an issue as many of the less expensive ones top out under 100 psi. Distributor price for that sort of valve seems to be of the order of £30 to £50 a pop which will be too much but careful direct from China shopping might make it work. Order of £250 for all new, industrial quality, drop in replacement would certainly attract me should I have more problems.

Clive

Thanks for the link Sloth. Looks a likely cause for mine too.

Clive

Sending one kit claiming to fit all years of P38 is proof that Goodridge don't know what they are doing, unless they put extra hoses in to cover the difference. Did a bit of noogling around t'net and found that Goodridge official site doesn't list the P38 but some others do, including a spiffy Goodridge box. Couple say 6 hoses on the box illustration with NB note further down saying "this kit only contains 4 hoses". OKay.

Really does wonders for your confidence in more arcane engineering matters if they can't even count. Having in the past demonstrated how easy it is to pull official Goodridge supplied for motorcycle hoses out of the connector I'm no great lover of them in out of sight out of mind applications. Can't see that the flexi / stainless issue makes any practical difference on a P38 anyway given that its a proper power braking system. Its arguable that an ultra solid system isn't the best of ideas when a high pressure ABS system starts rattling away. The touch of compliance in ordinary flexis might give things an easier life.

Drifting off topic I do use them on motorcycles where the extra firmness is very noticeable. But I make the lines. Properly. (My rotary engined Norton Commander needs all the help it can get on the stopping side. Big, fairly weighty, powerful, very fast when in the mood and absolutely no engine braking effect whatsoever. Both Commanders had serious brake upgrades pretty much out of the box as the standard ex-Yamaha XJ 900 units were a joke in bad taste and the current one has had another uplift since. Hoping for decent weather this year as I really need to make some inroads into my second million miles and Grandad Norton's second 100,000.)

Clive

I have a similar damp problem but on left had side. No sunroof. On the to-do list if it ever stops raining or I manage to sort the garage enough to get inside. Its likely that it appeared after I had the first screen replacement as the guy who did the second one said he had to bung up a hole at top left where t'other folk had let something fall out.

Bit I don't get if its the screen seal is how the water manages to work backwards as the car is always parked 10 degrees or so nose down yet my headliner is wet back past the top edge of the door. Headliner is well saggy now so its all got to come out to be re-done. I can see a Maritrim kit and lots of swearing in my future! So whilst its out and the screen finishers off where should I be looking for ingress points and how best to fix them.

Thanks

Clive

Sloth is smarter than me for sure!

Lynx isn't VIN locked either. Just model locked so mine does all P38 both GEMS and Thor for the one licence. It is cheaper than nanocom, but not after buying the computer, and I thought larger screen would be nicer too. Up to there with it after it dumped mine on the bump stops and couldn't get it off. Had to make a cable and use Mr Storeys' EAS unlock software to sort that one. That said the bits that work actually do function quite well, albeit in an incredibly cumbersome way, so its not completely bad. Logic says E-Bay it and get something better but I'd feel bad about selling on something so flawed. Bottom line is they sold version 2 (fine in lab if you know what you are doing, mostly) but version 4 would have been the first ready for market one that any normally mechanic savvy person could use! Doesn't look like there ever will be a version 3 let alone 4 tho'.

Clive

Nanocom seems to be the one folks are most happy with unless you are uber-geek enough to need a faultmate. So thats probably the one to get.

I bought a Britpart Lynx expecting to need to look at her ladyships L322 as well as my P38. Big, big, big mistake. The blue box should have been a clue! Fair number of things it only does "sort of" as in just enough to tick spec sheet boxes but not enough to be really useful. Various upgrades promised on initial release have never materialised. No way I can find of getting tech support or questions answered. Runs dog slow on my Toughbook. Publicity blurb seeks to give the impression that its directly derived from the official Testbook as being made by the "same" company Omnitec. Some more detailed digging suggests that Omnitec now isn't the same company as Omnitec then, a takeover or two in the way, and that they don't have rights to or proper access to the official Land Rover Testbook code. Even for what it does it doesn't run as well as Testbook. After P38 experience theres no way on earth I'd risk hooking it up to herselfs L322. I like life!

Hawkeye also runs Omnitec code but in a stand-alone box so probably no better.

Clive

Maybe one of the fine fibreglass "scratch" brushes would work inside the socket. Smallest seems to be about 2 mm diameter so there is a chance it would get in OK. 4 mm next size up which ought to be decent at doing the male end and housing, could be trimmed to get inside sockets I guess. On my to try list should I ever get a really filthy connector to clean. 4 mm refills are about 30 p each in tens, 2 mm about 80 p each and holders in the £5 to £10 range so not gonna break the bank.

Clive.

Spray with contact cleaner / lube then make and unmake a few times. Repeat if necessary. But check the instructions on the cleaner. Some say leave to dry some say mate / un-mate wet. Unfortunately the elfins seem to have banned the real good stuff.

Was what we used to do at RARDE / DERA / DRA / QintetiQ & DSL (same place same lab just different names for the firm) on military and experimental gear. Always got stuff working, eventually, despite squaddies best efforts. Was willing to work very hard to avoid re-making soldered up, fully sealed, MIL standard Plessey and similar circular connectors with 50 or more inputs and outputs. Molex and similar extractable ones are easy in comparison.

Clive

When I did my hoses I got hoses and cobra type clips as a complete set for pretty much same price as hoses alone elsewhere. May still have supplier details. Since found out that the nearest motor factor also does hose and official clip size deals.

Problem with Jubilee type clamps is that the pressure is quite uneven around the circumference of the hose. Also routinely overtightened. Way back when I was handling very high pressure air / gas stuff in the lab for MoD research had to do some training on pipework and joints and was very surprised by how low the clamping forces needed for ordinary stuff was. Bit of a difference between radiator hoses and 5,000 - 10,000 psi tho'. Apparently one really bad thing about jubilees and similar is that the more you tighten them the less even the pressure is. Not that they are the worst by a long way. Stupid sheet metal hand tighten ones on our laser cooling systems were only good for about 4 psi and if gorilla student on vacation placement took a pair of pilers to them you could see the hose being pulled out away from the stub. Its the ring round the end or barbs that do the work really.

Clive

Doing coil packs by feel with size 6 hands isn't too bad but how folk with bigger mitts manage I don't know. Pushing on probably not too bad but pulling off the one (OK, OK two) put in the wrong place might be a different matter. Cheapy borescope from Mr LiDL just the job for visual check once you get your head round which way is up on the screen.

Clive