The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse.
419 posts
Sep 14 2016
09 May 2019 - 20:56

Island listing for Boge fronts is OEM as in Original Equipment Manufacturer. Which doesn't necessarily mean original factory specifications.

I bought both front and rear Boge OEM from Island a couple of years or so back. I'm unconvinced that they are made to the original factory specifications although thats obviously a very difficult thing to assess when comparing old, factory, shockers with new ones.

Best I can say is that the damping doesn't seem quite matched to air springs. Air springs being inherently variable rate I'd have expected some shim stack differences to cope with the rate variation as opposed to the linear rate of coil springs. These sometimes feel caught out by spring rate changes on decent suspension excursions leading me to suspect that the shim stack, or equivalent damping control, is expecting a linear rate.

That said my main previous experience with air suspension was with Fournales motorcycle units which are much smaller volume and operate at higher pressures than the Range Rover system so have significantly more change of rate with travel. Poncing about with the pressure was good education in why damping has to be matched to spring rates and loads. I was never convinced that Fournales actually knew what they were doing when it came to road applications. An expensive lesson in not to believe the hype!

The damping action of my Boge OEM shocks sometimes feels a bit reminiscent of the Founales motorcycle ones when the baseline pressure didn't match what the damping side of things liked best.


14 May 2019 - 14:03

Thats a piss take! Sounds like they are quoting for all four wheels on an L322 where, notoriously, nothing wants to move. Especially at the back! Even then its top end.

£30 to £50 seems to be fairly typical. Maybe this website is worth a try :- https://bookmygarage.com/blog/wheel-alignment-cost/

Think I'd want to be sure that things are pretty much right before trying the DiY laser kit. All this sort of thing is so much easier when you know what a good one looks like. Small errors will probably be fairly easy to handle and understand but if its got weird issues ...


16 May 2019 - 16:57

When I had mine done (twice) by the local National Aircon people the young lady doing the job also didn't run the engine during filling. She just evacuated the system, did the nitrogen check for leaks and re-filled it. The we started it up and verified that it came down to temperature as per RAVE. She said it was interesting to have the official manual to do the right checks.

Also reckoned that underfilling is bad for the system. Told me that on an older car its a good idea to do a re-fill every 3 years or so even if the A/C still seems to be working OK as an older system will very slowly loose gas.

Not impressed by Halfords, Kwikfit or garages with a machine in the corner and a certificate on the wall. Guaranteed underfill. Especially on a high volume system like the P38. She said that frequently you just get a standard amount shoved in, maybe choice of small system or large and thats it. Certainly when Halfords did mine the first time they under-filled it as the fill lasted about 6 months. Her full fill lasted about 18 months and confirmed I had an intsy bitsy teeny weeny leak that wasn't properly showing up under test. But the fill had the UV indicator stuff in it so sufficient traces were left to confirm a leak.


17 May 2019 - 22:55

This diagram and annotations might help sort out what goes where : https://www.roversnorth.com/category/696_range_rover_p38a_99_02_heater_air_conditioning
Not the easiest to interpret or read but combining the picture, numbers and the listing should get you there.

When I did my condenser I found a similar but better one somewhere else. Thought I'd downloaded it but seems to be lost in comouterspace at the moment.

I got one of the E-Bay green O ring kits but ended up buying at least some official Land Rover ones. Probably from Brit-Car. Don't recall which ones. Of course my kit might have been different to the one you are looking at anyway.

Past my bedtime. I'll have a look tomorrow.


The O ring kit I have is by Toolzone, part number HW019. I was sure that I bought at least one original O ring from BritCar when I did the condenser and drier change back in 2016 but, unusually for me, I can't find any records. Obviously being sloppy then as even the condenser itself isn't in the Excel expenditure file for that year.

20 May 2019 - 17:56

I've heard form others that Direct Line get expensive if you keep renewing yet I'm on my 5 th year with them and have always found the renewal quote to be within £10 or £15 of the cheapest from comparison sites. Usually if I bother to go through the details and get exactly the same coverage the difference is less or even comes out more expensive.

Shuffling around for so little every year comes under the life is too short thing. £240 fully comp this time round. Went to them after getting a £150 hike, basically doubling cost, from Lancaster! Tried the challenge and they wouldn't budge.

Thing I really don't understand is why the experience is so different for different people. Some folks get hit by silly hikes, some folks can get them to shift and some, like me, get a deal they can live with almost every year


21 May 2019 - 12:01

oilmagnet477 Actually my threshold for searching new deals / switching et al for pretty much everything is £1 a week. Your £50 near enough. When dealing with that size of difference straight off a comparison site it usually seems possible to get an even better offer. What I found with the small differences was that after a fair bit of effort getting a quote for near enough exactly the same thing any differential had seriously dwindled. Original £15 or so down to £5 or less. Leaving aside the "who they?" names for exactly the same trust issues that RutlandRover has.

Of course folk like the AA are brokers not insurance companies. I'm pretty sure that they have effectively fixed costs for the actual insurance bit and set their "broker fee" by what they think the customer can be euchred out of. Which is why they are usually pretty outrageous and why they are so keen to re-negotiate. Colour me cynical but such is the inevitable endpoint of companies run for the money rather than to do the job normal folk expect by political types focused on exploiting internal rules for their next bonus and next promotion. You can just see the bonus / promotion points system -2 for loosing a customer, 1 per pound up to a £20 fee, double points above that and a gold star if you screw them out of more than £100. All the real insurance companies use similar risk assessment algorithms so the real insurance figures won't vary much. Its all down to exploiting the customer profile. Maximum profit being by charging high for low risk customers.


22 May 2019 - 09:40

Bummer. Devitt rushed me £126 for my Norton Commander Rotary. Officially 588 cc so counts as 600. So being an old 'un doesn't always work out. Looks like I should have done bit of searching for a better deal. But mines has the Supreme Commander modification set by Richard Negus which is pretty major, basically replacement of all suspension and running gear plus significant other stuff, and it gets tedious explaining whats been done. Discrepancy between book value £2,000 - £3,000 and replacement value or £12,000 or so!

But I wanted it right for its second 100,000 miles. Alternative being to buy a Beemer and they can't even make fuel gauge senders that work properly!

26 May 2019 - 10:39


PM me your E-Mail and I'll send it over. Be warned its, ahem, comprehensive! I bought the Laser Tools kit that doesn't fit the P38 and did a re-worked version that would fit and drew out all the parts. Most of which aren't needed if you use a press rather than a pull screw.


25 May 2019 - 23:16

Judging by my experience with the tool I made having a support tube above the taper bearing race will ensure that the bush does go in straight. My version only has a short parallel lead in and will try to slip sideways a bit if the bush isn't properly lined up. All pulls straight as it goes through the taper though. With 20-20 hindsight I'd have made the parallel bit longer.

But thats with a press pushing from the top.

If you are pulling it through with a bolt or stud it will have some self aligning capability so long as its reasonably close to true as it enters the taper race. Personally I'd bore a tube with the requisite diameters and push the race into the bottom with about an inch of straight bore above to keep the bush straight. Bit less to worry about holding in place. All those washers would drive me nuts!

Bottom line is that it clearly does come into alignment when just pulling through the race but a bit of extra support will make life easier.


My press is nominal 12 tons, Chinesium bottle jack power so what it really is I hesitate to guess, and that pushes them in easily. But, with my version of the tool, you can feel the bush settling into alignment as it enters the taper. I'd not care to use the naked bearing race and stack of washers in a press. Too many loose parts and the bend in the arm makes it much harder to keep things dead straight. Frankly if I were doing a bunch I'd add some bits to my 12 ton hydraulic puller kit so I could take the press to the radius arm rather than the arm to the press.

Do you want the pdf of drawings for my kit?


26 May 2019 - 10:33

Surprised that LR didn't have one of those small O rings. Britcar list it in both Brit-Part and Land Rover versions. Looney tunes price, about £5 and £8, but I guess its not a common size. Which is odd as one would have expected it to be used on "lots" of air con compressors.

Forgot to mention that the Rovers North site page I linked to https://www.roversnorth.com/category/696_range_rover_p38a_99_02_heater_air_conditioning comes back with the correct part number if you click in the lists.

I remember stealing a list of sizes from somewhere at least partially annotated against part number but thats another thing lost in computer-space.
Had a re-organise & sort out a couple or three years back and lost some useful stuff.


26 May 2019 - 20:44

Reasonable price probably not. From about £220 for a set of four genuine ones. Britpart a little cheaper I think. Do a search for STC8535 front pair, STC8536 rear single exhaust or STC7703 rear twin exhaust. Watch out for VAT include / not included prices and Britpart / Land Rover variants. LR Direct offer OEM too at in-between prices. Also check if the fixing kit is included.

Breakers aren't really worth it. Steel parts inside rust out so odds are anything used is coming towards the end of its natural life. It looks as if you can remove the remains of the old metalwork and re-work things but life is too short!

Yet another one of those do it once, do it right and forget about it things. Unless you get lucky.


28 May 2019 - 14:57

Still chasing the occasional, and sometimes not so occasional, water leak where the hose from the water pump enters the thermostat housing. Only seems to happen during cool down after the car has been parked up for a while. So presumably a pressure build up on the engine side when the stat is closed.

So far its had new hoses, albeit a while back, changed clip from the spring thing to an up-market Mikalor stainless steel band and bolt affair and finally fitted a new OEM thermostat last week just in case it was a minor crack in the plastic housing.

Still drips a teeny bit.

When changing the thermostat housing I did think that the hose was little slacker on the stub than I'd ideally have liked but still within the range of what a clip ought to have tightened up. Seems to me that modern hoses are slacker on the stubs than what they used to be. The hoses I used came as a full set from a reputable supplier so should be OK. Don't recall blue bag packing but may well have been Britpart. I notice that the visible end of the top hose where it goes onto the radiator shows little coolant spots about where the reinforcing cords might be. Something I've not seen before.

Seriously thinking in terms of paying the Green Oval tax and getting a factory hose. At £35 a pop it ought to fit properly but thats a lot of money for a hose. Any suggestions for a cheaper fix. Leak sealer in the coolant or rtv round the stub would probably work but both are bodges.


29 May 2019 - 11:57

Looks like RutlandRover sneaked a picture of mine when my back was turned. Exactly the same.

Its just this hose that has the problem so hopefully no deeper seated issues. When I got the set I thought that both ends were too slack. Waterpump end got a jubilee clip from the start, no way would my crappy (is there any other type) waterpump pliers would grab the spring clip thing at any permitted angle of attack. Even then it needed tightening shortly after installation. Both ends way, way looser than what came off. Frankly I almost kept the old hose but that had obvious evidence of old age.

Oh well. Bullet meet teeth. Ordering a genuine one straight after lunch.

Rubbish boots seem to be the norm these days. Mr MoT man complained about them not lasting between MoT tests. Apparently customers get upset when advised that the new ones they fitted after last years test have also given up.

Talking about rubbish I've decided that after a lifetime of moaning its time to sort the waterpump plier thing once and for all. LiDL had some this week at £2 a pop. Basic arms are quite nicely made but the sliding pivot thing plumbs new depths of craphood. I got a couple of pairs and will weld filler pieces into the slots then drill and tap in 3 or 4 places for a screw in pivot. A touch more fuss to use but at least it will stay where its put. Allegedly the expensive, £20 - £30 + versions actually work but am not spending that on a tool that might get used twice a year.


29 May 2019 - 20:38

Well spotted Sloth.

Where did you find the CAT numbers from as they don't come up on LRCat. I presume the CAT numbers are for the flaps alone. STC ones are supposed to be flaps and fitting kit with screws, inserts et al. Full kit makes sense on the front but rears are just simple self tappers and slide on sheet nuts.

To be fair mine were OEM and the steel inside the front ones lasted about 15 years. Rears still going strong.


29 May 2019 - 20:09

Like Sloth I have one of the flexi cable spring clip removers. Got specifically to deal with that pesky water pump end connection "next time". Used a jubilee clip when fitting because that was all I had. That end is till working fine.

We shall see how things go when the genuine hose arrives. Start with spring clip as that was what the factory used.


12 June 2019 - 21:15

Discovery or Range Rover Sport are the usual suspects when it comes to body off to do anything serious. Allegedly its a couple of hours to come off and 3 hours to go back on for folk with the kit and knowledge. Hmmn. If you believe that I can do your a wonderful cash deal on a bridge!

Thought the L322 was unitary body with suspension on subframe units. Now if I'd not been fighting shy of doing owt to her ladyships TD6 for years I'd know!

Last time I did a body off job was on a Reliant Regal 3/75 to swop the chassis. Everything light enough for 17 1/2 year old Clive to move on his own. Scissors jack, four blocks of wood, screwdrivers, ring spanners, open ended spanners and a couple of tyre levers. The Clive toolkit was a bit skimpier in those days. How to keep occupied on a sunny weekend.

As the RR Sport is essentially a Disco in dancing clothes why do they call it the Range Rover Sport rather than Discovery Sport?


25 June 2019 - 21:21

Plenty around as its still in print. Best price seems to be £17.25 off E-Bay.

Or if you just want to read it once off a computer screen its up on Scribd. Dunno if you have to be a subscriber to read books tho'.


25 June 2019 - 10:36

In retrospect a pretty good case could be made for the P38 being "peak comfy 4x4" from a users perspective. Far as I can see all the later vehicles in this market segment, whether made by Land Rover or others, seem to have just added scads of expensive, unreliable pseudo refinements which don't make any realistic difference to real world performance or how well the vehicle actually does its job. They are not even seriously less thirsty. About the only place modern does seem to win out is in the communications and entertainment side of things. Unsurprisingly given the major and fundamental changes in that area since the P38 was conceived. But the android in-dash tablets sort that pretty well. Must get round to fitting one.

Like anything made by man, or woman, the P38 has weaknesses and imperfections but everything is documented and pretty much all are fixable without lunatic costs. I still reckon that £7,000 ish in one hit will cover a do-it-all, set the clock back to nominal zero ready to just go use it with routine servicing for another 150,000 miles. Nothing else you can do that sort of mid life improvement programme on. (Series Landys and Defenders do not count. Not even with a lifetimes supply of ear plugs and air cushions!) Heck I'm not sure that there is anything comparable out there that you could drop £10,000 (ish) off E-Bay or AutoTrader and expect to do 150,000 miles on without hitting mega expenses on the way. Assuming it doesn't rot out somewhere vital first. Given BLs well known paint line issues the P38 is unreasonably durable.

No doubt that, in general, P38 parts are inexpensive. Even without plumbing the shoddy depths of blue bag and "who they" suppliers.

I suspect that few folk realise what a tour-de-force the oft, unfairly, maligned BECM is in both design and execution. Marty does, I have some idea but as for the general car bashing public.... Given that the overall concept is, and always has been, pretty much unique on a mass production vehicle and the number of ways such device could have gone seriously pear shaped its an amazing achievement on the limited BL budget. Plenty of other BECM and similar systems from more respected sources have proven to be fragile with surprisingly short lifetimes leading to cars being scrapped because spares can't be got. Hi Mr Mercedes!

Although I'm resolute in my belief that the 4 speed with lock-up TorqueFlight is peak auto-box (especially with a warmed over Chrysler Canada Mopar in front) if you want it to just work over mega miles our ZF 4HP boxes come pretty close. Just enough added electronics and engine ECU interlinking to be useful. Not enough to get fragile or perplexing if things go wrong. Wonder what lunatic thought putting the electronics inside the later ZF boxes was a good idea. Probably the genius who dumped the dipstick.

OK a few more ponies and a bit of attention to the inherent dipsomania would be nice. But I guess 2 tons of 4x4 with the aerodynamics of a small house is always going to be on the thirsty side. When you consider the money Leyland dropped on the irredeemably flawed Triumph Stag V8 you have to wonder what could have been done if it had been spent on the Rover V8. Given the emissions issues I'm always surmised how band aid solutions were adopted throughout BMC/BL et al rather than biting the bullet and re-designing cylinder heads to suit an EFI world. Worked adequately well on the Jaguar V12 after all despite the seriously compromised design layout. Popping a 4 valve head on a Rover block would be pretty trivial in comparison, could give it stepped liners while they were at it too. Guess its the old pushrods are out of date attitude. It really is a shame that the BMW money went into the L323 rather than doing a Mark 2 P38. Properly.

Or maybe not given BMW engineering ability to get a lot of the hard stuff right then totally crap things up on something unrepairable. VANOS anyone. Or that external oil pipe right at the back of the V8.


30 June 2019 - 12:07

Does sound like the cool down leak issue that yours had. So I guess its jollop time. Or maybe just live with it and keep topping up once a month.

Thought that if its a metal side issue K seal is the thing to use but thats not so good on rubber or plastic.

Still can't see why it waited a day before leaking tho'.


29 June 2019 - 10:11

So finally got round to fitting the factory hose from water pump to thermostat on Thursday. Significantly tighter on both thermostat and pump connection stubs than the one from the (allegedly) good quality, but not factory, set I fitted shortly after getting the car. The cable operated spring clip compressor thing worked fine when fitting the new pipe to the thermostat end but couldn't do the deed at the water pump when working from underneath. Probably be OK if working from the top. So the pump end got a Mikalor stainless steel band and bolt type clip. Needed a bit of careful alignment to keep the bolt head clear but went on well in the end and stayed in place whilst ratcheting up the bolt head. Jubilee worm drive types don't stay put and are the very devil to do from underneath!

Test run and top up, no leaks despite encountering the airlock issue for the first time ever. Sixth time unlucky I guess. Still dry all through standing round Friday. Last check at about 9 pm.

Yay! Fixed. I thought. Celebrated too soon.

Wandered out on the paper collection walk this morning and ... territorial marks under the car. Perhaps 1/4 or 1/2 a teaspoons worth. Quick look confirms the joint at the (new) thermostat is slightly wet.

So it seems that it does it overnight. Presumably due to temperature changes but how that would generate enough pressure to produce a leak is beyond me. In retrospect its always had odd days and periods without marking its territory overnight and, so far as I recall, its always been overnight. Never when parked up during the day.

Getting to the point where I'm about ready to abandon my stance against bodges and chuck a tin of sealer jollop in. But which one! I'm sure it had jollop in the cooling system when I bought it but I assumed that was to seal up the sadly bodged water pump gasket. Must have been good stuff as its the only time I've ever been able to see where it settled when sealing gasket. That one was so bad it probably leaked under simple pressure head when the coolant was poured in.