Chris
PM sent.
Had a chat with my local 4x4 man and he says same thing about corrosion. Also reckons that it depends on which head gasket has been used s well as the anti-freeze. Later gaskets (composite?) and wrong or infrequently changed anti-freeze being bad in his experience.
Clive
Mark- pm sent, eventually haven't quite got the hang of the system.
Hi Mark
Thanks very much for the heads up on that car.
I've had chat with Mike and we are going to have a serious think about it overnight. We both have stuff on and may not have time to do the gasket before the new year but if Chris can do the job for what Mike considers reasonable money I'm pretty sure he will go for it.
I'm seeing Mike in the morning, catch up tomorrow.
Clive
Orangebean
Yeah pretty much so although I'd rather not have to deal with a headgasket level issue as I can't get a car into the garage at the moment even though the world most over-engineered garage door is sort of working at last. Object is to minimise the chance of getting issues I've not seen or having to sort things that have been Bubba'd or he will have me bouncing back and forth over 20 miles from my place to his like a demented Yo-Yo in horizontal mode every time anything tricky surfaces.
Pity he didn't come up with this idea last month then he could have bought the really nice one at Haisham, only three miles away from him. Or, more likely, I'd have bought it and sold him mine.
Clive
Gilbertd wrote:
ere's a classic one to avoid unless you want to spend a lot of time getting it sorted http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-4-6-HSE-V8-P38-Vogue-Alloys-Autobiography-Wood-NO-RESERVE-/122228188219?hash=item1c755e243b:g:0PcAAOSwTA9X4Zd- (although Chris will probably go and buy it.....).
Be worth a punt if it hadn't been mucked up with coil springs and I could get in my garage. £3,000 and time spent would almost certainly get it good. Hafta be prepared to spend on the do it right do it once principle. Pensionable age parts aren't really the problem folk think. But you must be prepared to be ruthless and strip hmm maybe parts out whilst you are in there. Trying to save £1,000 by cutting corners will haunt you. Easy for me to say 'cos I can afford to do things that way! But not going there on someone elses car 20 miles down t'road! Sorting his Bridgeport was enough nightmare for me.
On the higher mileage ones its finding thems that had major work done properly thats the issue. Most of the high mileage ones are on skimp schedules so lord knows whats been half overlooked, called good enuf for now or outright bodged where it can't be seen. I know where I am on the 65,000 to 80,000 mile cars.
Clive
Thanks for that guys. I think I've got him calmed down a bit and the nose ring in (bit of a bull & gate type). When I posted was looking at 6 hours in the car to see "real nice" (?) 135,000 mile car at £3,500 (ish) if cash waved around and driving it home for him that day if he bought it. Figured we are both old enough and ugly enough to avoid getting caught with major mechanical issues but I wanted some idea as to what the second round of aged out / end of life parts was likely to include so I could make sure that things due soon had been changed. Absolutely didn't want to risk catching the "still good looking but we will sell it now before it needs money spent" car. That one was from a serial owner semi-trader type too "best P38 I've seen" quote. Oh Yeah! Got my wiskers twitching. You can do quite well from such folk as they see more cars and have a vested interest in picking decent ones but they have to unload everything without loosing out so their mistakes just get passed on.
Anyway back on familiar territory as he's agreed to hang on for something like mine was when I got it. Looked after, normal servicing to good standard but not very far into the replacements cycle, if at all. Hopefully steering clear of the P38 values are rising mob. Mine was £3,000 in 2011 with 77,000 miles so they are holding their money.
Clive
My pal Mike has pretty much decided to get a P38 for second car / caravan tug duties. Estimates around 3,000 miles a year, keep at least 5 years. I've been roped in as the expert consultant to ensure he doesn't buy a money pit. Pretty much settled on a Thor V8. Even at V8 thirst he will save a bundle on payments towards the His part of His'n Hers cars. Given the fairly limited price range covering nice cars on wildly different mileages I'm wodering what the spending on parts over and above ordinary servicing is for various mileages.
I suggest he waits to find something in the 65,000 to 75,000 (ish) miles range which will cost a bit more but, judging by my car which I got at 77,000 miles with pretty much everything except one airbag original, around £2,000 should cover the expected replacements up to 100,000 mile range.
However he is also looking at cars in the 100,000 to 140,000 mile range which claim to have most of the first stage part replacements covered. But 100,000 to 140,000 mile cars seem to be £1,000 to £1,500 cheaper. I'm my view such cars are likely to be false economy but I don't have a handle on what extra replacements are likely to be needed and what the risk of serious engine work is.
Clearly anything beyond 150,000 will be just too leggy and has a good chance of needing engine work in his ownership. Which isn't going to be viable as Mike's looks at engine work like Marty does. Patch it up till the next pop isn't gonna happen.
Clive
All back together but now the compressor and one of the solenoid valves are arguing over what the correct pressure in the system should be. Compressor fills tank OK, he comes up fine to normal ride height then one of the solenoid valve does the click click click thing letting a bit of air out whereupon the compressor cuts back in for about 30 seconds to bring it back up to pressure. Compressor stops. Valve releases the air. Compressor starts and so on.
Only thing I can think of is that I hit a wrong setting on the Lynx box of tricks when trying to depressurise. I investigated a button called transport mode which I discovered drops it down to access hight and inhibits the system. No way on the Lynx software to bring it out so I assumed simply removing the inhibit and using as normal was right thing to do.
Under orders from her ladyship to go to Welwyn tomorrow so I have to fix him.
Clive
I guess you too can remember exactly where things were before they got put in the safe place. Which is frustrating.
Clive
Welp that was embarrassing!
Got the seal kit, desiccator kit, compressor kit, air valves and pressure gauge from Simon, the original landyair man. (If you are gonna do a job do it properly I always say.) Rebuilt the valve block yesterday. Wotta lot of rings, reckon the Range Rover EAS designers dad must have owned an O ring factory. Fitted today and he still went down on the right front corner. After a pause for coffee and appropriate incantations I dug out the Lynx to de-pressurise the system. OK. How! Surely that POS box can at least manage something that simple. Eventually decided that the only way it would do it was to put things into transport mode. That got the air out but how we are going to get him out of transport mode and back up to normal is gonna be a whole'nother thing.
Dragged the suitcase compressor over and a bit of experimentation with valve positions and pipe connections disclosed we had got a leak in the pipe to the right front corner. Nicely audible with the engine stopped and the extra delivery of the suitcase compressor. Turns out that somebody got careless with the flame when warming up the aluminium nuts on the airconditioning system to encourage them to come undone and frazzeled a section of air pipe down the side of the radiator too! Ordered up a length of pukka nylon air pipe and metal Noregen fittings. Don't trust the cheapy plastic fittings or the soft pipe for exterior and wide temperature range use. Hopefully be able to replace the whole length so I won't need couplers but best to be prepared. What's annoying is I have some pipe and a pair of connectors in stock, left over from when I did the air bags about 3 years back and wanted to be prepared in case I had to cut the rear lines. Put them somewhere safe. Real safe.
Still waiting for the new airline and connectors will give me time to do the desiccator and compressor rebuilds. Coming up to 90,000 miles so probably due.
Clive
Looks to be getting towards 3D printer time to do replacements for all the ageing plastic bits that break when you try to get them out. Can't be much longer before the price /performance / finish / material choice on hobby level printers gets to the point where that is practical.
Heck I'd drop a grand or two on that sort of toy if it could do something useful without "only a hobby guy would accept it" futzing, persuasion and coercion. Be nice to work material putting on fashion instead of taking off. But then I'm a toolaholic from way back with two decent size lathes, a Bridgeport, shaper and other metal mangling necessities in the man cave.
Clive
Chris
I think the Simon is the man at landyair. I'll give him a ring tomorrow. Google searching gets confusing as it also pulls up 4 x 4 spares for when searching landyair.
Sloth
Thanks for the reminder. Will verify what happens with doors open tomorrow when neighbors are out so I can run the beast without upsetting everyone. I knew I'd forgotten to check something properly. Fairly sure it stays up with doors open but didn't leave it long enough for a proper check.
Clive
Got about 3 hours on it this afternoon. As expected front airbags are still properly seated so the problem occuring after jacking up to look at the brakes was probably coincidence. Can't find an air leak tho'. System lifts fine when the tank is full, holds up for a couple of minutes then sags to the bump stops at the front over a couple of minutes. Solenoids and valves can be heard clicking as it goes down suggesting that the driver pack and solenoids are OK. The back will stay up so long as the ignition is on and engine running. Turn the ignition off and within a minute or the back end is on the bump stops too. Some clicking from the valve block too.
I figured that valve block rebuild is next step. Time to order a kit?
Clive
Thanks for that Chris. I should probably get the bits in stock even though a quick look this afternoon after the rain stopped and before it got dark suggests the compressor is OK. 10 minutes to bring the tank up from emty with door open. Both ends lift with a charged tank then front sags as the air runs out. Rear stays high as long as the engine is running but sags in a few minutes after switched off.
Time to get up close & personal with RAVE and figure out how to run the EAS bit of Lynx. Given that Britpart chose not to issue a manual thats going to take some work.
Clive
Clive
Um. Six in the case of the upper union on my old condenser unit. Own fault. After being delayed by a few problems getting into things I got bit rush headed hoping to get the job done whilst i still had assistance on site to re-fit the bumper. Lent a bit too much on the spanner and interpreted union nut going out of shape as things starting to move. Net result A/F dimensions each way were both different and tapered. It also rubbed on the pipe! Comments of the "Oh dearie, dearie me!" type. Heavily supercharged in full afterburner mode.
Fortunately warming things up with a propane torch loosened the union up enough to get things moving. One whitworth, one A/F, one normal length metric, one stubby metric (unearthed and unwrapped after 25 years in the white elephant drawer), my favourite small F type shifter and King Dicks version of the Americans favourite Crescent monkey wrench got it out a teeny bit of turn at a time. Maybe 30 very long minutes. Once off some scientific squeezing in the vice got it spinning free on the pipe again and the across flats dimensions within couple of thou'.
Having paid the brand name tax for a Hella OEM unit instead of "perm one from 5 lower cost" versions on E-Bay I expected the new condenser to drop straight in. Nope! Locating pin holes down the bottom were incorrectly positioned with respect to the bolt sleeves and each other. So in and out half a dozen times for file modifications before it all went in. Straight copy of the old one didn't work, that would have been too easy, and there is still a bit of residual stress where the bolts don't go into the brackets dead true but hopefully it will be fine. Hella managed to get the top fixings wrong too. Clip on thread carriers instead of the standard welded on nuts so the standard bolts are too short. Just to make a clean sweep the fan unit bolt holes didn't line up either so a bit of gentle levering was needed to get that on. At least it came with positive pressure inside and they did get the union threads right.
Full dark (and chilly) by the time I got the fans on but not fancying finishing off in the rain tomorrow I decided to have a go at putting the bumper on solo. Went straight on. Easy. Air deflector on the left went straight in and held OK with the remains of those stupid beak me to take me out push fixings. Grill went straight on too without dropping any screws. By that time I figured my resident workshop gremiln colony had bedded down in the warm for an early night.
Nope! The beast had taken up a distinct list to the drivers side during the days work. Which didn't really worry me as the air suspension has always been good as gold. Started him up to shift back to the proper parking spot, went right down to access height and stayed there. Light's flashing, compressor running but no lift. Gremlins clearly still wide awake and dancing merrily. Hopefully just an air bag displaced when I checked the front brakes on Monday, when its gets light again we'll see if the tank pumps up with the drivers door open. Horrible feeling that it may be time for a compressor and valve block overhaul. If it is who does a good kit these days?
Clive
Hmm. Suspicious from Sussex wonders how much credibility a guy who puts cheap ugly wheels and low end skinny tyres on then raves about riding on air comfort. His wifes daily driver too forsooth. Seen similar before on other vehicles where what's said about it ticks all the boxes but something desn't quite run true. Proper inspection shows that all the good things that were said about it are technically correct but poor execution and cheapy substitute components mean what you get is a lot down from what you thought you'd bought.
Long road trips to look at do affect your judgement. Its easy to convince yourself that any issues are minor when you'd walk away if it were just down the road. Been there, dunnit, got the T-shirt and a Bristol 603 under cover on the drive waiting for enthusiamn levels to rise again to prove the point. 10 years might do it!
Clive
Going by the pictures that wildly overpriced deseasel is no better inside and out than the one down Hailsham way I looked at. Underneath! Who knows. Not going to be super wonderful there despite low miles. I reckon 13 - 14 years from new before things start suffering from natural ageing down there. Things like tank straps et al go faster of course. Sunroof and Harman Kardon sound system are not advantages. Gonna leak sometime and we all know about the digital amps. Hailsham one had full set of factory rubber mats including the big one for the boot. Now that is an advantage.
I felt the asking price at Hailsham wasn't unreasonable in car for your money terms but deal didn't really work for me as mine is pretty good.
Clive
The big red beast and I toddled off down to Hailsham, well nearly, Lower Dicker actually, for a look at that 2001 HSE with barely 35,000 on the clock. As expected it was smart, very smart confirming my opinion that dark green paintwork and lightstone interior is the best colour combination for a P38. It also reminded me that lightstone shows seat squab wear where you slide in and out very rapidly indeed. As might be expected from the miles this one had done a fair bit of short trip work which really showed up on the drivers seat. Pity. About the only interior deficiency. Started easily from cold running up smooth and sweet. A quick amble round the industrial estate showed it to be a bit tighter than mine but, given mine is due for a good go through, the differnce was smaller than expected. Suspension got a decent work out. Its approaching forty years since I was last down that way. Road surface was poor then and nowt seems to have been done since. The natives don't drive striaght down their own side of the road with ordianry cars!
Not as good as I'd hoped underneath. Better than mine yes but similar amount of the wire brush, rust-killer paint and Waxoyl, Dintrol or whatever needed. Just lots more aging paint and less rust. Like mine 3 years back. Still got factory exhaust. Why can't they make replacements as quiet. Air suspension did its stuff as it should and the owner said, without prompting, that coil spring conversion folk were nuts "It came from the factory riding on air so why change everything instead of looking after it properly". Yay. Our kind of guy. He'd been told it would soon need new airbus so there is a set to go with it. Didn't seem so to me but it has been looked after a combination of DIY and non-RR mechanics which on the face of it is odd given that there is a respected Indie in Hailsham. I knew the ABS & Traction control were showing faults so I took the Lynx to check codes. Lynx said 4125 left hand rear, short between sensors, hopefully just sensor replacement would fix it. 4066 left hand front showed up as historical. DIY fixed apparently.
Will I buy it? Thought probably would when I left but by now shading to probably not. A year and 50,000 miles younger is attractive but being retired guy where 5,000 miles is a high mileage year big red is unlikely to wear out. Would need to find and fit roof rails and reversing sensors. Underneath work will be similar and the solid rear brke pipe across the axle is on the advisories list from the last MoT. Not the sort of job I wanna buy. Big red has a droopy headlining and leaky aircon evaporator but I have the air-con bits and headlinings aren't silly expensive to do so he won't cost much more to get back into proper trim. Black upholstery may not be as smart as lightstone but its a lot more practical when you use a car as transit van substitute as I often do. Best guess is that I'll drop approaching £1,500 or so on the deal once I'd found a good home for big red so the nicer car probably isn't worth it. Really I'm not that sure how serious the guy is about selling anyway.
Am I talking myself out of a real deal?
Gilbert might be interested to know that the owner before this one used it for his business of hauling classic cars around. Mostly short trips by the look of it.
Clive
Orangebean
This one is just down the road from me and looks really nice E-bay 112168474344 with very low miles.
Currently wrestling hard with temptation as its little more than 1/3 rd the miles of mine, about a year younger, and essentially same model. In my view a late HSE has the right blend of nice toys without too much over clever stuff. Like sat-nav and digital audio. No sunroof means no roof leaks too. Nowt wrong with mine but it has stacked up a few advisories on last MoT which need going through and a bit of minor body attention. Parking dings & scuffs. All due to be done as soon as I get the worlds most over engineered garage door sorted so I can get inside to work on it but dropping a grand or two on the swop and not having to get out'n under is attractive at my age!
Clive
Yes. Rolling code system and not that many presses before it looses sync. Managed to loose mine from too many button pushes as a side effect from other troubles. I want to think it was about 10 but you never think to count until afterwards. Dunno how much effect the other issues had either.
Clive