Still also hoping for email notification of replies to topics.

I am getting better and checking the site a couple of times a day, but when I get busy I sometimes forget and there are replies there. I'd rather come here and reply and help people than other places! hence why I try and make it a routine to stop past!

It's coming along nicely though!

I fitted an Audi heater core, so I never have to worry about O-rings again...

I've also just been working on putting together some kits with everything needed to so the Audi swaps... have found that the matrix units I've sources have close on 18-19mm hose couplings aswell, so all the reducers and 16mm hose I bought (as the original Audi core I put in mine had 16mm hose connections, as writeups on Rangerovers.net all mention...) are now redundant...

But it's good in a way... it means that you don't have the reducer fittings, 4 less hose clamps, and to me the less number of joins the better. I just need to find a reliable way of clipping the P38 heater temp sensor to the hose as it's a bit thicker than the metal pipes...

There are a couple of threads on it on the 'other' site... but a brief explanation :)

The original connector is a HSC (heat sealed connector) which has an adhesive on it which conducts where it's supposed to and insulates in between. The LCD itself has some very fine electrical elements in the glass which conduct through the LCD pixels to then make the display work. Over time, as we all know the screen can 'lose' the pixels - which is basically where the adhesive on the ribbon cable has gotten weak, and this then causes it to lift, and not conduct in places and thus cause pixels to not get turned on.

I did look at trying to get replacement ribbons made, but then had this idea when I was reading about multimeter screen repairs, but was pipped at the post by a seller in France that also sells these, but the fact that someone else has done it was proof that it was a viable solution. In fact, I spent what worked out to be about £20 including postage to buy one - just to see with my own eyes that it works properly!

These connectors work in such a way that the black bit in the middle is a big sandwich of conductive material, and then an insulator, conductor etc all the way down (they are called Elastomeric connectors, or more widely known as Zebra connectors which is what I originally stumbled across about a year ago when I was searching for LCD connector repairs and ribbon cables, when I was looking at going down that route). Each conductive slice is about 0.18mm wide, and likewise with the insulator - and when looked at from the top (closely) looks like a zebra stripe.
The pink bits on the outside are just pieces of rubber, to bulk up the connector and provide rigidity. This connector gets sandwiched inbetween the PCB and the LCD, and then conducts the electricity through the conductive slices from the board to the screen, and hey presto - working pixels.

These connectors are a little bit taller than the normal gap between the board and screen, so that when the face of the HEVAC is then screwed back together, it puts pressure across the bottom of the LCD and the connector, to make a nice solid connection between LCD and PCB.

I managed to find a place in China which would do me a production run of these - made to measure - but the minimum they would do was 500 of them... which was a bit of a gulp moment when hitting 'order' because if my measurements were wrong, then none of them would have been any use... Luckily they all seem to be OK - I've tried 2 of them now, one on a spare HEVAC I have, and one on a 'parts/testing' HEVAC unit - both with perfect results.

I am planning over the next week or so when I get a moment outside of fixing window switchpacks and door latches for people, to whip the HEVAC out of Snog, and do the swap on that and then install it and use it day-to-day for a bit.

The whole assembly seems solid when it's screwed back together, and the screen/connector aren't going anywhere due to the pressure they are held under.

Fingers crossed it's a decent long-term solution... and hopefully a lot cheaper than a second-hand HEVAC which may end up with the same problems!! The only question I have is: Why didn't they use them to start with!!

Yeah, pretty much everything 433mhz will do it, garage door openers, other vehicle key fobs...

I also don't like being ripped off, but unfortunately it's about the only 'solution' to the problem. I have wondered how easy it would be to modify the older receivers - I have been doing a bit of work into looking at the fobs and the data they send - I am wondering if there is an easy enough way to recognise part of the pattern of the fob transmission and use that as a trigger. I think that is how LR do it with the latest version... But again, haven't been able to investigate it enough to figure it out!

Yikes - that sounds a bit worrying!

Glad everyone (including the RR) is ok, and it was a simple fix!

Marty

Haha!!! most expensive licorice allsorts ever!! And probably not as tasty either :(

Well, I figured I'd post it here first, before putting it on the 'other' site (purely because of a wider exposure!!)

I got a lovely delivery from China today... my order of Zebra Strip connectors to replace the ribbon cable design in the HEVAC unit for making the LCD work...

The minimum order was 500... made to specifications that I gave them.

One unit looks like this:

And installed, gives you one of these:

I have them listed in my shop, and they are about half the price of buying them from France on eBay... Small enough to come in a standard envelope, so postage is £1 for 1st class delivery.

I will be doing a set of instructions on the installation procedure, with high res images aswell, hopefully in the next week or so - as I'll be pulling the HEVAC unit out of my own RR to be the 'guinea pig' for the instructions. I've already tested the connectors on 2 of my other HEVAC units - one is a spare and one is a bit past it as it was my test unit for LED installation - but on both of them I got a full screen of pixels....

Marty

That's great to hear Steve, thanks for that.

I have a feeling it is along the top of the windscreen as I can see parts where it almost looks like its got inbetween the laminated layers of the glass..
I think I used bathroom silicone sealant on the pollen filter housings, but want something super duty (and black preferrably!) for the top of the windscreen area, so will have a look in screwfix and toolstation for the stuff you used as if it does the job, then it's good enough for me!

It can't hurt for me to check the sunroof drains aswell whilst I'm there...

Cheers,
Marty

I was fairly tongue in cheek about the mud being an inhibitor... it's my lame excuse for not getting under there and giving it a proper clean... I do need to get in along the sills where it's all totally caked and get all the muck out as I don't really want it corroding out on me...

I am pretty sure that I've killed the sensors when I probed them, or I've blocked off the natural air flow into the sensors when I've joined the wiring so the comparison inside is way off or something like that. The sensors were working before I got to them - just the heater wire was causing the previous problems as they weren't heating up (well bank 2) fast enough on a hot start. I am guessing that was masked on the cold start as the engine ECU holds it at slightly higher revs for a bit so it was above the normal idle speed where the problems were occuring.

Still, it will all be sorted soon.. And maybe whilst I'm under there I'll transfer some of the clumps of dirt and mud from the chassis to the road :)

My next one is going to be taking the trim off the top of the windscreen and checking my front sunroof drains, as I found a puddle of fresh water on the drivers side mat and just above the headlining at the front by the windscreen on the drivers side has some moisture there... Fairly sure (but I'll check anyway) that it's not pollen filter housings as I've had them apart already and re sealed them all with silicone when I put them back together..

Take one thing off the list and put 2 more back on some days!!

Well, the underside is properly caked in mud - a fair bit I tried to jetwash off, but still so much remains... It's a natural rust inhibitor now it's all dry isn't it?

I still think I've damaged the sensors somehow whilst I was under there, or I've blocked them up - but I've had enough pissing about with it so going to re-crimp the original connectors to the vehicle loom as I managed to find some pins for them - and then I'll swap the new sensors on when they arrive and be done with it.

I went under it today and cut the sensor feeds to the ECU before I went out today as had about 70miles to do and didn't really want to do that with it running stinking rich, so figured open loop the whole time was going to be closer!

The good news... she ran really well today in open loop - idled nicely and started up strong from hot again, which it wasn't doing before this whole saga started - so I'm now confident that swapping the sensors over when they arrive will sort the problem out. And then I can move onto the next one!

I'll have a look at the Zirconia link you pasted above... always interested to see how things work!

Cheers,
Marty

I've just bought a new pair... Found genuine Bosch ones on eBay for £30 each with free shipping so thought sod it.

I wonder if I probed the wrong pins and killed them - apparently you can kill them if you try to measure the resistance with a DVOM - unless it's more that 10 MOhm impedance on the multimeter inputs (will have to check mine now)... Still doesn't explain why they are OK for a little while and then stop... I was trying to probe out the heater wires to make sure they were both intact (they are, about 3.5 ohm resistance on the heaters)

I've also read that they 'breathe' through the wires to compare the external oxygen to the exhaust gas oxygen. I'm just wondering if I've somehow blocked them up...

Either way - A new set of connectors and new sensors and fingers crossed it sorts it. I don't like just throwing money at a problem, but they aren't something that is repairable if they have decided to take dive. Still, if it gets it running happily again, then I'll be happy... I'll just have to sell a couple more door locks or something to cover it... haha..

Will report in a couple of days when new sensors are here and installed.. I think for tomorrow though, I am going to snip the signal wires and let it run open loop. It has to be better than how it is at the moment!

Marty

Howdy...

Yes, ONLY testing on petrol.. the bit about LPG up above was just because my logic went 'I cut a couple of wires and now have no output, so I should probably try reconnecting them' But as Gilbertd mentioned - the O2 sensor feeds go back to the LPG ECU just as a visual monitoring of what the sensors are showing in the software. I left them disconnected again today when I cut the connectors out.

The problem has ONLY been there since I got under there and been fiddling with it.. well, fixing the original problem with the heater wire on bank 2 as that was the reason it was misfiring badly on a hot restart. That is cured now - it just runs like shit all the time on idle now!

The latest test shows that BOTH O2 sensors now drop and show a voltage of near enough 0V, which I gather on the later Thor systems is ultra-lean - which makes sense as you can just about get high off the petrol fumes coming out the exhaust now as it's running that rich!

I haven't tried holding it in open loop and resetting the adaptives yet - I have to go to Newbury tomorrow to go and look at a BECM for an owner, so it'll get about a 60mile round trip. My plan is to cut the sensor feed wires so it will do it all in open loop, as to me that has to be better then closed loop but constantly thinking it's running lean and overfuelling. So I'll be able to answer that question properly tomorrow...

But I did reset the adaptive values whilst it was running closed loop and the sensors were still messed up and before it started adjusting itself again, it was running pretty smoothly at idle.

I think it is probably the sensors aswell - I just don't understand how me fixing the heater problem has caused both of them to fail. I only did one pin at a time, so I know I haven't got any of the wires mixed up!

My only other thought is could it be that the sensors are coked up now and there isn't enough exhaust air getting into the sensor itself? I'm already planning on pulling the sensors back out, but any ideas on if they are cleanable?

Marty

Swapped the ECU, and no change.

Has to be wiring or sensor now. Will have to wait until connectors arrive and then I'll chop the crimps and pull that part of the loom up top and test it all and put new connectors on. Will also pull sensors out and see the state of them, and most likely put the connectors on the old sensors and bung them back in to see if that makes a difference.

Right - this is starting to hack me off now.<br>

Been back under there and cut out the factory connectors and crimped the wires together. Got pissed off at the crimps as obviously the lot of cheap ones on ebay were just that - cheap shite as half of them didn't crimp properly and took at least 2 goes to get a solid connection.<br>

Just been out and taken it for a drive and recorded the O2 sensors. I missed the bit before I drove off as I was watching it on live data, but as you can see the heater status is now good (I get 12V to each sensor heater wire) but the output from both sensors is just strange. Both holding close on 0V which of course makes it think it's running lean, and is pretty much dumping raw fuel out the exhaust at idle.. the thing stinks.<br>

So, ideas on what would make the sensors run for about 30 seconds and then just show lean running the whole time? unless the heater elements in both sensors are failing when they get hot, even though the ECU thinks it's driving them - but I'm sure there is a fault code for that, which it's not showing. Besides, they were working OK before - just took longer to warm up, I think because of the dodgy connection on Bank2

My current theories: <br>
1) Both sensors have somehow failed - I've eliminated the connectors (have some new standard econoseal ones on order so I can put connectors back in again) but maybe somehow I've killed them when rewiring - though the 12V feed to the heater has always been off (ignition off) whilst I've been under there working<br>
2) Wiring fault - somewhere in the loom there's a break, which has happened when I've been doing the rewiring - though that doesn't explain to me a) why both sensors fail, or b) why they are going to 0V - I was under the impression that if there was a wiring break then it would default back to 0.45V c)if there was a short in the wiring, then why does it work for 30 or so seconds and then plummet?<br>
3) ECU fault - I wonder if something has unintentionally shorted whilst I've been under there and it's cause the input side of the ECU to go pop. Again, doesn't explain why it reads normal to start with and then fails. Unless the heater grounds are joined in the ECU somewhere and the driver for those has gone pop when I was doing the wiring to the first one. But again, power to the heater circuit was off when I was doing the work on it.<br>

I have a spare ECU, so tempted to bung that in and sync it up and then see what the deal is. If it's still there, then I can eliminate all of that nonsense and concentrate on wires and sensors.<br>

I have my old sensors still, so when the connectors arrive, I might look at refitting them (as I don't think there was anything wrong with them, they were replaced as preventative maintenance with genuine Bosch sensors). That will then either rule in/out the sensors and then it would only leave the wiring, which I am planning on pulling back topside when I crimp the new connectors on, so will do a continuity test on them back to the ECU pins whilst it's all accessible.<br>

Any other thoughts?<br>
<br>
Marty<br>
<br>
Latest O2 live data: O2 Data, crimped wires

If the drivers door lock has stopped working on the remote, then chances are that the problem with the tailgate lies there aswell.

I've posted up door latch tests in a downloadable document, so worth checking that. If it's just the door lock that has stopped working, then it is likely to be an isolated issue with the door latch or wiring from the outstation to the latch. If the window and mirror have mysteriously stopped aswell, then it could be a problem in the wiring to the outstation, as the window, latch, and mirror information are all transmitted on a serial link from the BECM to the outstation, and this then sends the individual commands to the latch, window and mirror...

But if either the window or mirror are working, then the serial link is OK, and the issue is isolated to the latch itself or the short bit of wiring loom from the outstation to the latch.

Hope that helps,
Marty

If you are in there, then it is also worth checking the fascia loom around where the heater core is... there just so happens to be a splice under the heater core area in the loom for all the diagnostic wires - where they split off from the diagnostic socket. Both the Pink/Red and Light Green/Red wires have a splice in the loom somewhere just under where the heater core drips coolant... Have found a couple of P38's now where the splice has corroded and stopped diagnostic communication...

Maybe one of those 'Whilst you're in there' chances to take a look at it and maybe fix both the problems in one go!

Marty

There are only 3 reasons why the tailgate would open with the rest of the car locked.

1) a failure in the RHF latch with the CDL switch, which is keeping contact with the door latch shut (the tailgate motor grounds through the CDL switch - and usually this is disconnected when the vehicle is locked
2) someone previously has bypassed the CDL switch and wired the tailgate motor to ground permanently so it will always operate whether the rest of the vehicle is locked or not
3) One of the wires from the tailgate motor has rubbed through the insulation somewhere and is now shorting to the bodywork again providing the grounding path for the tailgate motor.

I've put up a document about testing the door latch switches - but the other 2 - you will have to have a look at the vehicle wiring to see if there is an issue with them..

Hope this helps,
Marty

That's what I thought aswell - but hey, they are reconnected now and I can view them on the LPG software, and fired it up to see what happened. They had obviously cooled down a fair bit as they were both starting from about .45V and then bank 1 (which is actually my Bank 2 on the vehicle as it's all wired back to front - the injectors are aswell, so I noticed!) started to flip-flop, but bank 2 (RHS then slowly started to drop and settled at 0.01V.

The Bank 1 reading on the LPG software continued to flip-flop, but I presume that too would have eventually dropped - given that's what happened to both of them whilst I was out. Seems strange that they seem to be fine when cold, but when it warms up they both went to 0V - which to the ECU - it thinks it's just running stupidly lean, so it's dumping a load more fuel in to the point I could smell unburnt LPG in the exhaust.

I'm half tempted to swap the sensors back to the old ones - but will pull the ECU out of the housing tomorrow and see what signal is getting to it. I think if I have to go out over the weekend and I can get it sorted, then I'll be pulling the sensors totally and letting it run open loop - got to be easier on it than running that rich!

I thought you were south?? Much further and you'd be emigrating!!

It is entirely possible the later ones use less - I can't comment on how much my 01 draws as I've never had to do a sleep test on it... I know it was getting woken up so bit the bullet and got new battery and receiver in one go!

The new receiver is horribly overpriced, yes - but I haven't seen them anywhere at better prices than Island 4x4. Occasionally they come up on eBay but they are still around the £150 mark... Ouch...

I hate to think what the dealer price is for one though...