Also guys, what would the parts cost for me to install LPG to this 4.6 westminster on the basis that I would have to disguise/remove it for the annual ITV/MOT . Looking at my existing LPG on the 4.0 I reckon I could do the work. In Spain even the bloody roof rack has to be a factory fitted approved one and tow bars same detail !!
I suspect some of you are LPG 'fitters' - what would you charge ? I expect to keep the UK RR going but if I scrapped it would most of the Zavoli LPG parts be usable on the Left hand drive 4.6 ? And, the tank, after 10 years is it a question of replacement or retesting ?
Well, you've carefully avoided filming the bits that positively identify it as a Westminster :)
I'm guessing it's Java Black? (code?)
Seats look wrong colour- should be Ash Grey:
Wood looks like it might be Poplar Anthracite, but again hard to tell
16 ish mpg on a run. Has nav (pretty basic compared to modern smartphone).
Only 200 Westminsters built and only in 2001- 150x petrol 4.0L; 50x diesels
I'm not convinced that's a Westminster. Post the VIN and I'll see what else I can find out.
Well I found this but not sure if it helps - http://www.rangerovers.net/modelspecs/2002.html - won't see the vin for a day or so - Does it make any difference if it is made for Spain ? Perhaps there were variations for export. Also the dash pic looks like my vid - the bit one can see. I only assume the Westminster thing because of the badge on the back but it could be a replacement tailgate couldn't it ? I did actually help her with some work on the coolant overflow pipe a year or so ago but didn't take any special notice of anything. The sun and heat here makes a mess of anything plastic. If its not a westminster - is it anything out of the ordinary - i mean what is it then ?
Don't know what it is- but the VIN might help- a photo of the VIN plate showing colour code would be best.
Minor variations for export, yes, but not to significant stuff like interior colour and engine size.
Here's a potted history of the Westminster:
Very strange ! It has a lot of similarities to this 2002 Range Rover 4.6 HSE especially the seat colour and black trim - a video I found on YT https://youtu.be/6IEkJNS2CbE
Also there is mention of chrome trim on instrument panels - all very odd - someone will either say it is a bog standard 4.6 HSE with some odd additions/repairs like tail gate or a special choice export - perhaps one could choose light seats ? My existing 4.0 has the same light colour seats and I think it was a special for the Mayfair arab and matching colour leather gear knob and handbrake cover. The dogs chewed the leather gear and handbrake and when I called the show room for replacement they said £200 each. Needless to say they are still chewed !
Oh, and it only has one exhaust coming out the back - my 4.0 has two !
Someone has fitted a cheap aftermarket exhaust. Some cars had only tailpipe but most had two, but it doesn't make a lot of difference.
Hi Orange I'm going to have a closer look this evening - It has 60,000 miles on clock and is costing £950 . What do you think ? Terri has reminded me that it was brought to Spain from Dubai. Probably owned by one of those Marbella Arabs. Does this explain the rather mixed colours and specs ! Perhaps the Arabs wanted a Westminster with nice beige Leather seats and could afford to choose ?
And feasibility of converting to LPG - and cost if I do it myself ? (have to hide the LPG from Spain MOT each year !)
Whilst anything is possible, the whole point of a Westminster was the one off interior spec, one off wheel colour etc.
More likely the aforementioned Arabs put a knocked off boot badge on an HSE :)
The picture of the VIN plate will tell all. Make sure the VIN matches the one at the LH base of the windscreen and on the RHF chassis leg though!
Another giveaway will be whether it's got the 17 speaker audio fit (look for extra one in middle of fascia, extra one in rear doors and one in each rear loadspace cap).
All that being said, unless it's a ringer, £950 for a 2002 4.6 anything, with genuine (bills and service records to support) 60000 miles and a runner is ultra cheap. Maybe too cheap...
Take lots of pictures and stick them up.
super4 wrote:
And feasibility of converting to LPG - and cost if I do it myself ? (have to hide the LPG from Spain MOT each year !)
As it's a Thor (the later Bosch controlled engine), it would need to have a multipoint LPG system similar to that you have fitted on your existing one, you wouldn't get away with fitting a singlepoint. Consequently, removing it wouldn't be simple, there would be the injector blocks to remove, holes in the inlet manifold to blank off as well as the rest of the underbonnet stuff. Then there would be the rewiring of the petrol injectors so it would still run on petrol (you wouldn't simply be able to unbolt the ECU and leave the plugs dangling as they intercept the wiring to the petrol injectors).
Cost of doing it yourself would be in the region of £600-700 if using all new parts. France and Portugal are the same in as much as an LPG system must be fitted by an approved installer so it might be worth finding out what it would cost to have it done legitimately. One member on here moved to Portugal and had his done professionally for much the same reasons.
One other thing that suggests it isn't a Westminster but an HSE with a Westminster badge, is the fact that it has a 4.6 engine and all the Westminsters had either the 4.0 litre petrol or 2.5 diesel. They obviously found a Westminster badge easier to get hold of than a Vogue SE one......
Thanks Orange - got me worried now ! I trust Terri and husband - know them well so if anything is wrong it will be before their time. I'm looking at their bills tonight which I am sure are genuine. Will take pics if the car is back with them because they put it down on the coast road with 'for sale' on. I hope it hasn't got the 17 speakers in - I mean what do you need that many for .........drive the dogs mad !
This by the way looks like a 'correct' Westminster but I don't see a centre dashboard speaker unless disguised. I see they have Westminster written on the door sill too ! https://youtu.be/3iXZsPgVML0
And rough cost if I try and LPG it ?
super4 wrote:
And rough cost if I try and LPG it ?
I answered that while you were typing your last.
Just had a look at the two videos. The second one is definitely a Westminster in Bonatti grey but the one you are looking at almost certainly isn't. The Land Rover badge is missing from the tailgate and I suspect someone just stuck a Westminster one on because they could. There isn't a shot that shows the speaker on top of the dash, but the car in the second video doesn't have it either, so maybe the book is wrong and not all of them had it? It'll need a Martrim headlining kit too as well as a bit of TLC here and there.
Now if I was to be devious, I would suggest the way forward for you would be to buy it and get it back to the UK, have an LPG system fitted, register it here (something I'm doing all the time on imports from all over the world), then take it back to Spain and run it around on UK plates.......
Thanks for all that Gilbert - I'm not bothered whether it is a Westminster or not - only concerned in case it has been through some major changes/accident or unknowns. I'm happy to take it as seen providing what one sees is ok. The badge thing is odd - could simply be a replacement tail gate due to accident !? Note that you point out no RR badge. Lots to think about !
By the way - the original price they wanted was €3000 which was probably realistic for condition and year but here in Spain few people are well off and driving top cars and the majority are pretty average to poor and second hand thirsty cars like the RR are just not on their shopping list. So one can make allowance for the variation in price and I don't think it is a reflection on its condition for £950. Anyway, I'm going to find out aren't I !!
What would happen if he presented the car for the France/Portugal/Spain equivalent of the MOT with LPG parts fitted but disabled by pulling the fuse, perhaps removing the LPG tank?
Or, not too difficult to remove a reducer (and connect coolant pipes together), remove injectors (and plug pipes), remove the LPG ECU (and reconnect petrol injector wiring using a couple of plugs that just join striped wire to none striped).
Just looking for a get-around for Super4.
Well folks - all is not quite as hoped. - got a call from Terri saying they couldn't let it go at the agreed price of 1000 euros - think she had been got at by her garage who know about its true value and I have had to raise it to 2000 euros or lose it. Bit annoyed because we had an agreement but swiss miss has come up with extra funds so we are going ahead. I think it is still a sound buy at that. Had a drive - goes perfectly - but has annoying little things wrong which I think I can fix myself. You will hear from me for ever trying to fix them !! It seems to be a Westminster because most things are right about it - including the writing in the door sills - instead of Range Rover. I forgot to get the vin ! The car was sold in Saudi Arabia as an export to an Irishman who worked there and eventually brought it back to Spain. That might explain the differences to spec. Ever more to do !
Until you take the VIN to a dealer and get proof, that's not a Westminster. Whether it's worth 2000 quid is up to you :)
I had a look on leboncoin (https://www.leboncoin.fr/) the french equivalent to Autotrader/Gumtree and even a dead P38 is being advertised for that kind of money. Whether they are selling is a different matter but it seems that a doggy left hooker is worth a lot more over there than a decent one here. So 2k would still seem to be a decent price even for one that needs a bit of TLC.
Well Gilbert it seems pretty sound and Terri is selling because they have been overwhelmed with high running costs and low pensions ! Little signs are pointers to the reasonably low mileage but as is usual with these wonderful Rovers they are let down by crappy bits like roof linings etc - you will know what I mean. Also - as you know my existing LPG system better than me - are you saying that the new thor fake westminster would need the identical system ? If so, and I fitted it or got a good willed holiday seeker to cast an eye over my efforts in between soaking sun and cerveza, I could remove enough to get it through the MOT/ITV in a year and 4 months time. The mot /itv guys are switched on but work on a production line and if enough was missing I don't think they would bother or notice ! Surely one can just disconnect the plugs on gas injector stuff and block up holes to get by ? What do you think ?
Ahh, the curse of the ex-Pat, pensions paid in Sterling that are plummeting in value when converted to Euros. There's a glut of property for sale in France currently at knock down prices all being sold by Brits that are moving back for that reason (and fears over what will happen post Brexit). You'd need a similar system to that fitted to yours, whether you chose to go for another Zavoli (or any other AEB based system) or something different is up to you and your wallet. As for removing it, that would depend on how closely the guys that do the test look at it. If you could leave the main bits in place and disconnect a few vital parts then it wouldn't be too difficult but if it needed to appear that there was no LPG system fitted, then it would take almost as long to remove it as to fit it.