In my opinion, yes it is,
My biggest reason for thinking this..
The 38a is just elegant
It's hard to put into words but it's the last Range Rover that has Classic Class and elegance.
The L322 and beyond just look far too PIMP for my liking.
Thats my main reason for thinking it's IN MY OPINION the best RR yet.
I agree, the Classic now looks dated (although the final ones with the Brooklands bumpers still look good), the L322 looks OK from the front but from the back it looks way too tall and skinny (probably why they've gone for the sloping back on the L405) but the P38 just looks right from all angles. Not only that, despite it's reputation for unreliability, I reckon it is the most reliable, it doesn't suffer some of the problems the later ones have with everything being linked by canbus so a failure of one thing screws up everything else. The L322 suffers from EAS leaks just like the P38, biggest difference is that the whole front strut has to be replaced (at over £300 a side) rather than just an air spring at a 6th of the price. It also suffers from a sticky solenoid inside the steering column that releases the steering lock. If it sticks and doesn't release, it won't even allow you to turn the key to start the engine. It doesn't give any warning either and I've seen people describe it as a minor inconvenience. If you are just going to nip to the shops it might be but if you've just stopped for fuel at the French/Italian border and you can't even start the engine, it's a bit more than a minor inconvenience.
Admittedly I'd like the 300 bhp of the BMW 4.4 litre motor in the earlier L322 (wouldn't even consider a post 2005 with the Ford engine) but I couldn't put up with the nagging feeling in the back of my mind every time I turned the key or the looks of it. Even after owning it for almost 8 years now, I still sometimes find myself looking out of the window at my P38 sitting on the driveway, it just looks so right. The only one that looks like a modern successor to the P38 is the current Sport, the L494, the proportions look right and it doesn't look as bloated as the current Range Rover, the L405.
L322. Engineered by BMW, built by Ford. Nuff said!
Stupidly over complicated in all the wrong places. Lots of fundamentally bad engineering bodged round enough to work. What gronoff thought an electric handbrake was good idea on a vehicle with off road pretensions. Or any vehicle for that matter.
If the official unofficial kid sisters' TD6 is typical, needs a small fortune spent on looking after it. Like £1,200 in 8 months to sort a front suspension knock. About a grand of that I won't see again! Her habit of looking for cheaper servicing, in this case via an Indy who I don't think is really up to such complex vehicles doesn't help. Thought she'd learned her lesson some years back after smithereening my VFR750 Honda at about 120 mph. Late for work and cheap oil filter collapsed! According to her speed limits don't apply to blondes on motorcycles. No great loss. Piece of crap in my opinion even if Johnny Harris (who looked after Joey Dunlops bikes) said it was good one.
When she got worried about her Discovery 300TDi after a "well regarded Indy" forgot to properly tighten the sump plug so it dumped all its oil in mid flight I told her to find a decent late P38 and I'd do a Gilbertd on it. Top hatted engine, lpg and everything sorted properly for the next 150,000 miles. Nope "I don't like the P38, the L322 is much prettier.". There are mistakes and there are expensive mistakes. That one being a really expensive mistake in my view. Yet she loves it to bits. Wimmin!
Concerning engines nobody has ever satisfactorily explained to me why the Rover V8 couldn't have been given modern 4 valve cylinder heads and appropriate camshafts to get sensible economy out of the beast. How difficult could that be on basic push rod motor. BMW V8 may be acceptable for a while but Vanos system and other daftness is just a grenade waiting to blow once the miles get serious. Design is such that it can't be sensibly rebuilt which is not something I approve of.
Clive
I appreciate we are likely to be preaching to the converted here but I totally agree with this thread.
Having owned a wide range of classic cars in my time and currently doing up a couple of 70's Loti, I am somewhat in awe of my beast. Dare I say it, I'm having to get used to being able to go out in a car and coming home again unaided!
Given some pretty horrific fails over the last few years, it takes some getting used to :)
I have wanted a P38 since the early 2000's - always thought they were way more stylish and useable than a classic RR - don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore (is that the right word?) the 2 door classic - it is an absolute icon and I would have one in my dream garage at the drop of a hat. Along with the S2/S3 Landrovers - they are epically cool but I couldn't use them on a daily basis.
Even at nearly 20 years old, everyone who has seen my P38 over the last couple of weeks (since I've had it back on the road) has been somewhat wowed by how good it is and perhaps more astonishingly, how clean it is - apart from a little corrosion on the lower tailgate and a bit on the slam panel under the bonnet (and nothing to write home about), there is hardly a mark on her (forgiving the odd light scratch).
I have no illusions that I will need to keep on top of things - I have the ever present oil leak so the rocker gaskets, valley gasket and front end crank oil seal and gasket will get done at some point but for now (with over 150 miles under my belt), I'm just really enjoying the experience.
If everyone cottons on to these, values could do the 'classic' thing. Would be nice, as it increases the likelihood of more being kept long term and not broken, but right now, I'd happily remain under the radar.
In my opinion yes it is. I love the Classic as well and would love one but finding a good one at the right money is the hard bit. I did own a 2006 RR supercharger which was nice and also a 2008 RR sport which done nothing for me at all. This is my forth P38 having owned 2 x Vogue 1 x H&H and the current Vogue SE. I even managed to get the Vogue SE on a classic insurance policy this year with agreed value. I certainly think prices will rise for good ones as people start to realise what a good car this is. I suppose it will be like the Jaguar E Type which got priced out of normal people's reach so the next thing was the XJS which has seen prices rise considerably as people went for this instead of the E Type. Same thing is happening to the RR Classic and the P38 is next in line. So those with good ones look after them. I certainly love mine and have no wish part with it.
Rob.
I've had the pleasure(?) of driving a lot of the classic cars that people lust after and in all honesty, none of them really did anything for me. They are nice to look at but they don't drive like a modern car and the same goes for the RR Classic. I owned one for 3 years, a 93 LSE so one of the later ones and while it was OK, it drove like a truck compared with the P38.
TBH i can't give an opinion on the classic or L322 so it's nice to hear what ya'll have to say about them.
The Classic is an amazing vehicle but the RR P38 seems to take all the good of the classic and just make it into a better looking and more capable package.
The L322 is just a little too pimp mobile for my tastes and it's adorned with far too much chrome and bling.
To start with you are preaching to the converted as we all own one, despite their foibles. They get looked down upon by the Land Rover One Life, Live it, crew as they aren't macho enough. The fact that a P38 on EAS will piss all over a Defender off road is something some of them know and are jealous of, others just don't think they can be any good off road as they are simply too civilised. The early ones did have problems and that got them the bad reputation as well as the EAS and electronics that were simply alien compared the agricultural engineering Land Rover independents were used to. You have to understand how something works to diagnose a problem with it and they simply didn't understand how it worked. It was this sort of thing that fooled my mate in France when he first got his. Multiple faults with the interior lights and EAS that didn't work all caused by an iffy microswitch in one door latch. Who would look at a door latch to fix a suspension problem? Once you understand how things work, it all falls into place.
But, as I have proved, look after one and it will look after you. A 3,200 mile round trip to Latvia and back at New Year, two runs to Belgium and back recently and a 2,300 mile trip around France last month, 450 miles of that towing a grossly overloaded trailer which I estimate weighed something approaching 5 tonnes. That in a 20 year old P38 with 359,000 miles on the clock that uses no oil or coolant and just keeps on going.
359k that must be one of the highest mileage P38 out there!
Hopefully over the coming years i'll become as proficient at fixing and diagnosing as you and the other guys lol
I live in hope lol
I've owned a number of 38s, a 322 which although it looked ok was the worst money drain I've ever owned. I lost a lot of money when I got rid. When I got rid of the 322, I got another 38 which I still regret selling. Gilbert sold it for me and did some work on it and as far as I know, the new owner is thrilled with it. I bought a 2008 RRS TDV8 which is a lovely car but doesn't have the ride quality of that 38. I had a choice at the time .............. spend £15k on the RRS or spend possibly £5k on the 38. When I got it MOT'd last, the garage owner told me I would be mad to sell it as the engine sounded superb. As time wears on, I know I made the wrong choice. My last 38 was the muttz nuttz.
In fact I would prefer one of these: https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24876/lot/379/
Only £250K ! Bargain ! Includes dents from filming ! Barmy !!
There's probably non-use writing anything more here from my point of view.... It's all been said already...
I have zero to compare with... I've only ever personally owned and driven P38s... I'm on my 3rd now, first was a '95, then a '98 and now the current '01 Vogue. All have been 4.6's, with the current one on LPG.
Part of the reason I've never owned anything else is because I just haven't found anything that grabs me as much. As other have said - the styling is bang on, it drives pretty nicely.. the odd vibration at various speeds annoys me (but then I was in a Ford Galaxy as a passenger and it was REALLY shaky on the motorway!) And every time I give mine a bit of right foot, the smile factor is there...
I've just recently spent £1500 on having the transmission rebuilt as it felt a bit slippy... And granted it's being a pain and I've had to take it back, but am I considering throwing in the towel and getting something else? Hell no.. once it's sorted, it's good to go for another 20 years hopefully...
Even when I add up how much I have spent on it over the years... I can't think of anything else I'd rather own, or would have preferred to spend the money on.
Maybe there is hope for me getting my other 2 restored and sold for s reasonable price!!
Don't own any Rangerover and never have but I've driven lots of Classics, hundreds of P38s and hundreds of L322s.
I don't get much of a sense of occasion when entering/driving any vehicle these days due to driving so many vehicles as part of my job, but I sometimes get just a bit of a sense of occasion when getting into a P38 (any really but especially a nice one) that I don't get with L322s regardless of spec. P38s have a lot of character, there's not much else like them.
Prefer the cabin of a P38 over an L322 and, dunno if this will seem strange, P38s seem more comfortable than L322s for the first hour or so but L322s seem more comfortable after then. The L322 cabin is similar to most other upmarket fairly modern cars, a P38 probably still seems a bit more special because it was/still is special.
Sacrilegious bit - The other year I needed to buy a towcar at very short notice to pull the caravan, it couldn't be a P38 because it had to have 7 seats. Could have bought a Disco but didn't even look at them, instead I bought an ML 7 seater. Not much of a Disco fan anyway but tbh I'd much rather trust an ML to pull a caravan hundreds of miles almost immediately after a short test drive than a Disco or a P38 after just a short test drive.. on the basis if the ML seemed OK on a test drive it would hang together over the holiday, most common problems with them develop slowly and they have less to go wrong. Dunno how I'd feel about buying an L322 after a short test drive and immediately using it for holiday towing, probably a bit more confident than a P38 not as confident as with the ML but L322's were out anyway as again not enough seats (and more expensive). If I'd had more time between buying and the holiday and didn't need 7 seats I'd have gone for a P38 and confidently used it for any purpose after it'd proved to be a good 'un or I'd sorted any problems.
Don't think there can be much doubt that the BMW V8 is miles ahead of Rover V8s.. being a pushrod engine the Rover is far easier to put right if it does go wrong but seems to go wrong at fewer miles than the BMW engine.
It's pretty much all been said, so I'll just agree :-)
well, just so this isn't a complete love in :)
In the Morat Mansion there are only two cars (we're down from the peak of four on the road) and despite saying that we shouldn't have two similar vehicles we've ended up with the P38 and a Jeep Cherokee (XJ, 97). While the P38 is definitely the more prestigious and comfortable car there's something reassuring about the Jeep.
It's rugged, it's nearly a ton lighter than the P38 and it has a straight six engine of renowned longevity. The suspension is crude with coils at the front and leafs at the back but it works. It's bouncy, but it works. For the type of driving I do most of which is twisty B roads and the occasional single carriageway A road, the Jeep is ideally suited. The steering is quicker than the P38 and it doesn't roll nearly as much. They both ride ruts and potholes well, but somehow you don't mind as much when the Jeep rattles interior trim. Also, the P38 often gets caught out round corners when you've been dawdling behind a cyclist or tractor then overtake and hit a curve before the EAS has switched to low mode.
Offroad, I don't know. I haven't tried the P38 at a proper offroad site. I do know the Jeep surprised me with how capable it was in stock form. LSD at the back, locked centre diff and away she went in low range. I think you'd have to get into the details of break over and approach angles before you could call it, although extra weight will always count against a vehicle in bad mud.
The whole thing is that bit smaller than the P38 which makes it easier to fit down narrow lanes but it still has a decent boot. Rear leg room is pretty pants, I'll admit.
On a dual carriageway, the P38 wins every time. It's quieter and very comfortable. The Jeep uses less gas but if you're hauling the whole family, dogs and luggage the P38 makes a lot more sense with the bigger capacity. Another plus for the P38 is having a wheel well. The Jeep has to have a custom petrol tank so the ultimate range is reduced compared to the P38 with LPG plus a full petrol tank.
On the engines, there's much to recommend each one. I personally love a straight six. Having owned many BMWs with I6 engines I appreciate the practicality, the ease of maintenance and the fact that there's only one cylinder head. A V8 has that special magic in the exhaust note, and I just can't rule that out! The Jeep 4.0 is hilariously old and has an iron block and iron head, 7 main bearings and pushrod/rocker valve gear. You really couldn't design a tougher engine. The Rover V8 is familiar to all here of course, and is also a classic engine. It also has fantastic parts/rebuild support which is reassuring but also a bit more necessary!
So is the P38 the best Range Rover? yes, I think so - although if you gave me a V10 L405 I wouldn't argue ;)
Are there alternatives? maybe :)
Oy Miles, Simon, yer both barrred!
lol :)
I would reckon your Jeep is far more comparable with a Range Rover Classic than a P38. Agricultural, and drives like it, but built like a brick outhouse. I never actually realised how much smaller than a P38 they are until I was parked next to one on a filling station.
My Old man used to have an XJ jeep S568KNK.
Tiny little things when compared to even the Classic RR
P38 looks like a beast ;)
This Pic was taken a few months ago just after getting her home..
The MC blue does shine after being Detailed
She looks a tad worse for wear now lol
What's this detailing I hear people talking about?