Modern diesels are a bloody nightmare, far too many bits hung on to try to keep the emissions down, whereas the engine in the diesel P38 is old school and pretty basic as they go. As you say though, it needs someone that knows how to set them up to get them running right.

Alot of the time the problems are around that - the extra bits added on cause more problems, EGR specifically I've known to be problematic, and although you shouldn't do it, I can see why a lot of the time its simpler to blank it off than trying to get it to work properly (and even if you do fix it, its only a matter of time unless you can address the problem for it clogging up in the first place, which is usually that its been sold to someone who it isn't suitable for and hence only goes round town, never getting chance to clear itself out properly)

As far as I can tell, that adaptation fault has to be to do with the FIP - the in tank pump won't trigger any fault codes like that. I'm not even sure it throws a loggable fault if it has failed completely, going by the number of posts on forums I've seen about it being only noticed when the vehicle struggles to start with under half (or quarter?) tank of fuel.

So I don't know how powerdrive came to the conclusion it was the in tank pump - especially if it has also been replaced previously by Turner

Yes Marty. It seems from others comments that the pump on the tank does not throw up a code. My local garage said it was a FIP code. If this is so why did Powerdrive not get the same reading? Different diagnostics they told me. How to broach the subject with Powerdrive? Mmmmmmm that will be tricky. He got a bit defensive the other day when I asked him about taking off the top when they repaired the diesel leak. He originally said they had not touched it but had to admit that they had to remove it to do the repair but was very quick to say they did not touch it in any other way. Perhaps they should have!!! I do not know if the tank pump needed replacing or not. Some say they last for 18 MTHS and then need replacing. Anyway they are not expensive to replace by what I have found and Turner's had already cut a hole under the seat. Would like to query what has been done but do not want to end up arguing with them. Just want to get it sorted but do not know how or where to go that know what they are doing. It has been 5 weeks off the road.

Perhaps you could ask them what diagnostics they have. If they something generic like "Snap On" then it might be time to explain that P38s are only minimally compliant to OBDII and they require custom diagnostics for anything unusual and these systems are rare and expensive. Then get a "specialist" down with a nanocom - not that any of us are particularly close by, unfortunately :(

Yes, it's partly BS but nothing compared with what they've been spouting and it could give them a face-saving way out.

Has anyone got any suggestions as to how I go forward. Apart from scrapping the thing. I have spent so much on it fixing pumps , o rings, the right CCA battery, viscous couplings, abs sensors, glow plugs, 4 new tyres, hevac unit and Marty's BCM, to mention just a few. To look at it is a nice vehicle. Blue with cream leather. Good bodywork. Alloy wheels which are not messed up from hitting kerbs. Saggy headlining , but each RR I have had has had this problem. Need to get transport soon before I end up in the loony bin from boredom!!!

Yes Morat. This Nanocon would seem to be the tool. I know that is not what they have got because I asked them. They did not say what they do have but there again I did not ask. Would there be some sense to try and get it to someone who does have one?

Nanocon!! Damn predictive text. Would there be anyone willing to come here. Is there any where else I could search for someone closer that has one. The problem with it needing transporting is the biggest harassment.

Well, there's always www.shipley.com
I don't know what the prices are like for a P38 that won't drive onto the trailer - can yours make it that far?

The site does not exist. Apparently.

Shiply . definitely exists, is a site where people bid on jobs, wether it’s movind a bed or a car, one or a thousand miles,, search just using shiply,
https://www.shiply.com/

Mazz1 wrote:

Would like to query what has been done but do not want to end up arguing with them.

I would ask for a written estimate/proforma for the work done detailing all work down, as specifically as possible. What did they do and why did they do it etc.h

I'm a warranty claim admin for a truck dealership and my job day in, day out is writing up repair work in sufficient detail to justify the repairs so that the manufacturer pays out.

An example of what what I mean would be :

Connected to "name of diagnostic machine" and checked for errors.

Found error code "blah blah"

Checked so and so and whatsit for "suspected issue"

Found "specific issue" with the whatsit

Replaced faulty whatsit and test

Found fault still present

Check the doobery

Etc etc until the fault is found, backed up with evidence and documented to be fixed.

If they do this for you and are truthful you should be able to identify things they've done that haven't helped (and shouldn't have to pay for).

You can also show the work done so far to someone else that actually knows what they're doing and get their opinion and the work done so far. They might look at it and say "looks fair" or "what they're claiming here is impossible and they're lying" etc

From where I sit it may be time to cut your losses, and stop throwing good money after bad. To own a P38 then you need access to free mechanic labour, a willingness to spend time researching all its quirks/ foibles and a desire to never be beaten. Unless the vehicle has been well maintained all its life, then it's hard to reverse 20 odd years of decline.

It may be cheaper in the long run for you to find something simpler.

It's hardly good money after bad if most of the things she's done have been part of what would be normal maintenance...

The problem as far as I see it isn't a case of not wanting to spend the money on getting it fixed and running properly, but unfortunately in a lot of P38 cases - being in the hands of a 'Specialist' who actually knows fuck all about P38's.

I've now got a BECM coming to be because a guy hired a syncmate from me, and it didn't work - flashed up an error that it can't wake up the engine ECU for communications. It is probably just a sync problem, because it will turn over on the starter motor and no ENGINE DISABLED on the dash etc. Gave the guy some info via email (he's too far away for me to just go and have a look myself) about wiring and colours, and connectors and where to look. He says he checked out as much as he could, but would have to get an auto electrician to have a look. Email today says that he's going to change the igntion barrel as the auto elec said the coil around the ignition didn't appear to be working.... and if not, then new BECM...
I've told him it isn't a BECM issue or ignition barrel problem as that for a start has nothing to do with the sync to the engine ECU... BECM could be an issue at a real stretch, but repairable these days - but more likely it is just out of sync and a communication issue, which I can look at here, on the bench. No idea if the auto elec even tried talking to the motronic ECU, which is OBD II compliant and even an ELM327 bluetooth device should be able to retrieve codes etc... but again, he's been taken for a bit of a ride by someone who instead of looking at it and going "Bit out of my league sorry" has had a go, and advised him incorrectly...

If Powerdrive have now admitted that they have taken the top of the pump off to do the seals, but "didn't touch anything else" it doesn't really matter... if the pump hasn't been set up properly, or at LEAST had the timing/modulation checked as the others have mentioned - which it obviously hasn't if they don't have the correct diagnostics - then it again comes back to what is most likely a really nice P38 possibly being scrapped for something that might take 20mins, half an hour? to fix by someone who knows what they're doing and not being fiddled about by people who don't...

Sure, this particular fix goes way above my head. My comment was more general though, unless an owner is willing/ able to get stuck in and do the maintenance on a P38 it's not going to be economic in the long term. Being able to find the specialist when you need ( and avoiding the charlatans) is obviously critical too, else it becomes even less economic. And not having to rely on it being working when you need it ( I think I have a head gasket on the way out as of this weekend) I know we aren't all here purely for economics, of course... I just don't think I'd recommend my mum get a P38, even/ especially if she lived just round the corner

Right. How in heavens name do you identify a P 38 when looking from a normal RR. From what I have gathered from this latest nightmare, is that it is a blokes car. It hates women, well me anyway. I have had 2 RR before and never had problems like this thing has given me. I had one for 9 years and it was great. 3.9 petrol. Went like s..t of a shovel and drank petrol like it was going out of fashion, but I loved him. The only real expense I had was when the head gasket blew due to a blocked filter. Had I not ended up in a position that I could not run him I would probably still have him. He was a classic and totally reliable.

Thank you RutlandRover. I think I will send an email asking for these details. They can then send the info back so I can print it out.

Mazz1 wrote:

Right. How in heavens name do you identify a P 38 when looking from a normal RR.

P38 was the codename for the 94-02 model of Range Rover, also known as the Mk2 to differentiate it from the Classic that came before it and the Mk3 (codenamed L322) from 02 onwards. So all Range Rovers between 1994 and 2002 are P38s.

Thank you Gilbertd. It will be helpful should I decide to get another RR.

Be careful. The P38 may have it's foibles but it is by far the best to get. The earlier Classic rusts while you look at it, decent ones are going for very high prices, while cheaper ones will require an awful lot of work to keep them on the road. The later L322 is even more complex than the P38 so consequently even more expensive to maintain.

The diesel P38 uses a BMW engine, a version of the engine fitted to the BMW 325d. After spending a fortune with a French Land Rover specialist, the lady owner near Paris took her car to a BMW specialist who was able to sort out her problems. Not particularly well, but it was at least running reliably and I was able to sort out the numerous other, P38 specific, problems.