Two steps forward.....
I've found out what the noise is underneath the Range Rover. How bad a job is this? I've got someone who will do the work but I'd like to know how many hours I'm looking at. It sounds like a reall ballache to get that far into it all :(
Cheers
Morat
Not a hard job assuming you have a rebuilt unit from Ashcrofts or whoever to swap in.
Very simplistically, "just" a matter of pulling the hubs/ drive shafts out a bit, remove prop connection, unbolt diff, bolt in replacement, reverse stuff you removed.
Probably 3-4 hours work if you take your time and drink copious quantities of tea!
As yours is a late model, it probably has a 4 pin diff, so best to replace like with like
Actually "My Man" is up for replacing the bearings in the current unit, if it was just swapping a diff he probably wouldn't be interested.
Hmm, there's a limit to how much favour I can ask...
On the other hand, I wonder how the rest of the diff looks.
I just had a quick look in RAVE and I'm either looking in the wrong place or there are no details on stripping the diff down and replacing the innards.
I can only find instructions on how to remove and refit the diff assembly.
Can be found in late Defender RAVE. Starts with "remove the axle" and gets much more complex!
Much detail on completely rebuilding, shimming and stuff, but not needed if you're just inserting a rebuilt "cassette"
Things become clearer!
If this is an undocumented reach into the unknown it'll be why Bob wants to do it. He does auto transmissions for fun.
I suspect I may be in for a bit of a wait!
On the other hand.. TruTracs look nice ;)
_
Actually "My Man" is up for replacing the bearings in the current unit, if it was just swapping a diff he probably wouldn't be interested.
Hmm, there's a limit to how much favour I can ask...
On the other hand, I wonder how the rest of the diff looks_.
That'll take a lot longer and involve much more faffing about with shims, dial gauges, presses and pullers. If you're paying "your man" you'll probably end up paying as much for his extra time as you would getting a warrantied rebuilt diff!
If this is an undocumented reach into the unknown it'll be why Bob wants to do it. He does auto transmissions for fun.
It's well documented in RAVE- from the front screen where you select the vehicle just pick Defender rather than P38 and look in Rear Axle & Final Drive :-)
The diff is toast, Ashcroft here we come....
Do I want my diff "pegged"?
Also, Ashcroft say that all front P38 diffs are two pin. Is that because they just don't stock 4 pin?
Don't see the need for pegging on a 4 pin for normal (occasional moderate off road) use.
Ashcrofts contradict themselves on the P38 Front Diff Page
Where they say:
In the 2.5, 4.0 & 4.6 P38 the front diffs are all 2 pin.
BUT
Note the additional £50 charge for the 4 pin diff assumes that its being supplied in exchange for a 4 pin diff, additional charges will apply if a 2 pin is returned.
Is yours actually a 4 pin though? 4 pins were meant to be stronger to cope with the 4 wheel traction control.
I've phoned them. They only have 2 pin in stock but want £560 for a 4 pin which would be available next week.
I'm going to wait to see what mine actually is and then take it up with them again.
An extra £50 I could wear for a 4pin - 4pin swap but doubling the price is a bit steep.
F coff Ashcroft :-)
You can buy a brand new one from Island for that!!!!
http://www.island-4x4.co.uk/diff-differential-4pin-ftc3483-tbb100840-tbb100900-tbb000270-p-27886.html
Or from LRDirect
https://www.lrdirect.com/TBB000270-Differential-Assy./
or take a chance on a used one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-P38-4-pin-Diff-Differential-front-or-rear-/172356092578?fits=Plat_Gen%3AMK+II&hash=item28213942a2:g:HRkAAOxykUZTjJi4
Marty's done a front diff before and I seem to remember a thread somewhere debating whether the rear 4 pin was noisier when put in the front cos it's running in the opposite direction so I'd want to know which end the used one actually came from!
I caved under time pressure and bought a 2 pin from Ashcroft for £285.
They're certain that no P38s left the factory with 4 pin front diffs, obviously others disagree!
If a 2 pin comes out of the front of this car I'll be happy enough but if I've swapped a lunched 4 pin with a weaker diff I'll be less pleased. Ashcroft will take the return if necessary, of course.
I'm probably better off being sensible and keeping that £200 for the upcoming "Fun with Coolant" weekend that I need to plan with Marty, but my innate love of shiny things will always regret failing to upgrade.
I'm sure you want to see the grim details!
It was a two pin, which is a relief. Before he even started, Bob said "Someone's been in here" based on the gasket and his final diagnosis was that someone had put new pinion bearings in but hadn't got the preload right and left them too tight by a long way. Eventually it let go and took out the rest of the diff. As you can see from the chipped teeth, it's not a surprise it was chuntering away as we drove up the M1!!!
There's a stock diff arriving in the morning. I can't afford the extra shiny so it'll have to do - and if it's installed correctly I'm sure it'll be fine :)
Fullsize: CLICKY
Fullsize: CLICKY
Fullsize: CLICKY
Ouch!
At least there's no doubt about what failed!
Should be back on the road tomorrow night then...
To answer the conundrum. The early, as in the ones with two wheel traction control, diesel and 4.0 litre came with a 2 pin diff at both ends but the 4.6 had a 2 pin at the front and a 4 pin at the rear. Later, 4 wheel traction control ones all had 4 pin on the rear but still had a 2 pin on the front. You can fit a rear 4 pin diff in the front but they are supposedly noisier due to the crown wheel and pinion teeth being cut the wrong way. BUT, you could make up a 4 pin front using the 4 pin innnards from a 4 pin rear diff and fitting the crown wheel and pinion from a 2 pin front diff. A lot of messing about (which is probably why Ashcrofts charge as much as they do) for a gain which LR didn't see as being necessary so probably isn't unless you are going to be going in for some really serious off roading..
I am not at all surprised that you pulled a 2 pin one out of the front...
My front one had never been out before (I could tell by how much swearing was involved getting the hubs apart... far more than the steering box!) and is a very late production model from what I gather (Jan 2001) and it only had a 2 pin in the front... A lot of the naysayers who stuck to the line that 4 pin was shipped in the front of the later ones couldn't really believe it - but it was definitely 2 pin...
I do have a 4 pin rear diff in the front of mine, and I honestly don't notice any more noise from it than before I had fitted it. Most of the whine in mine is from the transmission. I struck out, as I got a very low mileage 4pin diff which was going to go in the back, and then I was going to sort the front out at some point when i had time - but then I won an auction for a never-used 4 pin rear diff, so chucked that in the back in place of the worn 4pin that was there, and put the low mileage 4 pin one in the front...
I need to give the diff oils a change at some point, so will see what the state of the fluid is that comes out of the front... if there aren't massive amounts of shavings or chunks of metal, then I'm going to assume that even though it is running in reverse the whole time, it's not actually wearing any quicker... if it is wearing quicker... well, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it!
And she's back on the road :)
Quieter than ever... now I know what that strange intermittent noise was. DOH!