would a makita dtw450z impact wrench max Torque: 440Nm be good enough to take wheel nuts off a p38

Should be. The nuts should be done up to 80lb ft or 109Nm.

If you needed the full 440Nm I think you'd have bigger problems!

mate got that one he was going to let me use it but i can order one that is not as powder fully mind i mite need it lol not sure what the garage used but went to take the wheels off to change pads and the lever thats in the boot bent when i tried to take the wheel off and that wheels was taken off about 4 weeks ago to have new Tyre put on it

I don't think I've ever used the wrench that comes with any of the car's I've owned. They mostly look quite cheaply made and not all that strong.

I tend to use a breaker bar to undo them. Before I got a breaker bar I used a half inch ratchet and cobbled together an extension using a deep socket over the ratchet and a half inch extension bar lol.

If your nuts have been done up that tight it might be worth checking the studs to see if the thread has been damaged/stretched.

A 3 foot 1/2" breaker bar will be much more useful in my opinion. You'll be able to shift a lot more then an impact gun and have the option of slipping a tube over the end of it for something that's much tighter.

I've got a couple of impact guns in the workshop, a 1/2" battery one and a 1/2" airline one, I don't use either of them very often as I prefer the feel you get when doing things by hand personally. By the time I've switched on the compressor and allowed it to get to 12bar, pulled the airline out and then got the impact gun out of the toolbox, it's generally not much quicker using ugga dugga gun anyway.

Battery will be different of course as it's ready to go as long as it's charged.

Talking of wheel nuts, I had to take a wheel off my VSE the other night. First time I've taken a wheel off it and I had to use a 3/4" bar and socket to shift the bloody nuts. I've never come across them that tight. My normal 1/2" gear looked like a banana when trying to undo them.

David.

I have the big Makita DTW1002Z. Its a beast. A scary beast. 1,600 Nm nut busting torque. Doesn't even rattle on wheel nuts "tyre place" (over)tight.

Don't forget that the battery ones need to rattle for a little while to hit full torque. Makita usually quote about 30 seconds for nut busting level but then it drops off so you need to stop and start over. If you do get the big boy remember to hang on tight and brace your wrist. One heck of a jolt on start up if its on something tight. Much more brutal than (my) air ones.

Agree that a good battery one is the way to go. I've had air ones in 1/2 and 3/4 drive for more years than I care to recall yet have used the Makita more in the year I've had it than both air ones combined. Modern lithium batteries hold their charge well. I share 4 Makita 18 volt packs between two drills, the impact drive, a strimmer and hedge cutter and am never without enough charge to do one job.

Always torque wrench on of course.

The impossibly stubborn gets shown a 6 ft scaffold pole with 3/4 drive extension shaft welded on the end. I've had that bending nicely with two of us on it and the extension twisting by 20° or so before now. (Lancia front hub nut 350 ++ or so ft lb. Yikes!). Had folk come round with wheel nuts tight enough that I needed it too. What do these tyre shops think they are doing! Aren't you supposed to use those colour coded for the torque extension bars. Never really figured what they were all about but every tyre place I've been in seems to have a set over the bench. A really clean, as in never used look, set. Or at least have a poxy adjusta torque gun.

If you do a similar scaffold pole super breaker bar make sure there is enough extension showing on the opposite side of the square to get a support under so it stays on the nut. A pal borrowed it, neglected the support (I told him, I did) and it slipped off catching him on the chin during the rebound swing. Came back looking like he'd stood seriously too close to his razor that morning. I reckon he was lucky not to crack his jaw. I've been a bit less casual with the 3/4 drives ever since.

Clive

i funny clive thats what i did got bit of 4 ft scaffold pipe on it and thats when it bent think the pipe is what stopped it bending badly lol

I've got a Clark impact wrench and it's useless. I just use one of these https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/13202-teng-tools-wheel-wrench-17x19mm-12/ and a 27mm socket.

Although it seems people are managing with 1/2 inch breaker bars, I find they have too much flex and I know I would snap it, I got a 3/4 bar with drop down adapter to 1/2”, it’s a beast, I love it..

I've never had much luck using those drive reducers if lots of force is needed. They always snap on me :(

They work great for low force applications though.

My 1/2 breaker bar does flex a good bit bit I've not snapped it (yet?).

I know some tire shops zing the lug nuts on with an impact and then check them with a torque wrench. They will probably be way over torqued this way.
There are some nuts where a good impact wrench is invaluable. Like the wheel hub nuts for example.

I agree that the 1/2" breaker bars flex so you're not applying all the force to the nuts. That's the advantage with the one I use, no flex at all.

Gilbertd wrote:

I agree that the 1/2" breaker bars flex so you're not applying all the force to the nuts. That's the advantage with the one I use, no flex at all.

I've got both and would say the same, plus the angle of the extendable type gets you a better hold on the wheel nuts as it doesn't pivot. The extendable ones are usually the ones I keep in the boot incase of needing to change one at the side of the road

Some tyre places seem a lot better at doing things the right way than others are, the place I usually use will take them off with the impact gun, but put them back on with a normal socket then final tighten with the torque wrench. They also seem to do a better job at putting tyres on than other places I've used, some of which seem to believe lots of sealant will work on dirty/rusty rims

I use an 18V deWalt DCF880 230Nm impact wrench to remove my wheel nuts. Always does the job, but then again it's either me who put them on with a torque wrench, or the local garage who did. It doesn't move the M14/ M16 suspension bolts though, I'd have to dust off the air gun for that

I have just bought the same dewalt impact gun, romanbob. Nice piece of kit. Still finding uses for it.

A few years ago I bought a 3/4" Teng torque wrench on Ebay. It is a big thing with a 5ft handle. You can get them cheap when engineering companies sell them off with no calibration certificate. Far easier on big stuff with the 3/4" drive gear. The Teng is really too big for wheel nuts but it is more than enough for the hub nuts. Only problem I had was undoing the crankshaft nut on my diesel. It needed about 280 ft lbs from memory. I bent the special tool that holds the pulley.

I have a small DeWalt DCF887 impact driver for around the house/exhibition AV stuff (which has the 1/4" hex drive socket) which has on occasion been borrowed for smaller tasks on the RR's - with a hex to 1/4", 3/'8" or 1/2" adapter for whatever I need to do. It's got about 205Nm of torque, and I use a 4Ah battery with it.

For the tough stuff I have a DeWalt DCF899H 1/2" drive impact driver, which I have a 9Ah battery for (it's a monster) which has about 950Nm of torque and 'up to' 1625Nm of 'breakaway torque'. Rusty shock bolts... no problem, stupidly tight crank pulley bolt.... no problem... It has 3 speed settings with different amounts of maximum spank in each one - lowest is max 135Nm, second is 400Nm, and top speed is 950Nm.

Very versatile, but not cheap. Gets solid wheel nuts off with no problems at all, but a set of impact sockets for it were a must! I did contemplate getting a replacement air one for up at my workshop, but the 9Ah battery means even if I don't take the charger, I could be undoing rusty P38 bolts all day long and still not have it go flat. The downside - with the big battery, it is mighty hefty and not fun to have to lift above you if you're lying on your back under a RR!!

I have a Milwaukee 1/2" impact gun - with a mere 600nm of ugga and duggas. It was the beastiest one they did - but that was almost 5 years ago now and they've moved on to even 1" battery guns with enough torque to put most air powered tools to shame.

I've actually binned my old air powered one, because since getting the battery one, I simply never used it.

There are still times when the breaker bar is the better choice though - usually when breaking the fixing off is going to cause a problem.

My favourite new battery tool though is the M12 3/8" ratchet - I use it all the time for whizzing nuts/bolts on/off quickly. Very little torque, but if its critical, you just come back with a normal ratchet/spanner and do the final tighten with that.

cool cheers guys

Martys DeWalt DCF899H and my Makita DTW1002Z impact wrenches are, for all practical purposes of identical size and performance.

Except the DeWalt is about a pound lighter, 6 lb as opposed to 7 for the Makita. My 4 AH battery adds over another pound. You will notice the difference when swinging around under the car.

Something to consider if contemplating one and not already locked into one or other battery system.

For vehicle use its best to get something with a high "nut busting" torque rating. Others are usually quoted by tightening torque and can be surprisingly wimpy when it comes to actually undoing something. Might manage relatively clean things OK but easily defeated by years of rust'n crap. Watch out for the ones intended for scaffolders and the like. Great for that but serious wimps under the car.

+1 for the extending wheel wrench. Every car I use gets one in the boot. Two spares in the Snap On box just in case. Her Ladyship was most unimpressed on discovering that she wasn't gonna get to keep the one I loaded up when slumming it in t'mini.

Clive

If you're getting a big Impact Driver I'd recommend making sure you've got some ear defence to go with it. I didn't realise how loud those things are until I borrowed a big 1/2" DeWalt to shift a couple of nuts on my transmission cross-member. After 45s per nut on full Whack my ears were ringing!