Australia will be the first country to charge EVs for road use . and not before time . it will be 2.5 cents per km .Apparently NSW Victoria will introduce the charges for road use and the EV ers are not happy , they are saying it will reduce EV car sales 🤣 . i say about time they started to paying their way , this is around 25% of the costs that the rest of us are picking up for them , its time to pay all of the costs so that the actual cost is real not this artificial concept that persists now . if they want it they need to understand that its not as cheap or reliable as they make out . no more freebies or hand outs , its time to pick up the bill.😂 reality is a bitch and its only the start.
i say its a good thing , whats your opinion ?
Our road tax system is based on the CO2 emissions of a vehicle so as there are no emissions from an EV, they pay nothing. However, there have been talks on and off for years on changing to a mileage based system so that would hit them just the same (unless they decided they were exempt). They should put a credit card slot in the public charging points too so they pay for the 'fuel' they use too. Maybe they get sent a bill though, I've no idea? Even the humble Nissan leaf has either a 40 or 62 kWh battery so at the average electricity cost in the UK, that's between £8 and £12 a fill. The quoted range is a maximum of 168 miles with the bigger battery so at £1.25 a litre petrol cost, that's the equivalent of 78mpg if it was running on petrol. You could buy a Micra for half the price of a Leaf, convert it to LPG and get the same, or cheaper, running costs.....
They've spent years encouraging us to use less electricity by banning the sale of Tungsten and Halogen light bulbs and switch to LEDs then they push everyone to use more by buying an electric car.
The other thing that gets my goat is how they will always describe it as 'renewable electricity'. It's not bloody renewable, you use it. You get a supply of electrical energy which you then use and turn into heat or light energy. It's gone, it isn't there any more so you can't renew it. The only way you could say it was renewable is if you used it to illuminate a light bulb that was 100% efficient focused on a solar panel that was also 100% efficient. Wouldn't do you any good though as there wouldn't be any excess to use for anything else.......
Whilst there are public charging points here, I'd be surprised if they were free? I was under the impression that you had to have some sort of account to use them? Though the VED situation clearly isn't going to stay free for them forever either, something will replace the lost revenue from it.
WIfe just got a Tesla (I haven't even been in it yet... too busy fixing the P38) but she tells me that you subscribe to a provider, and pay that way
romanrob wrote:
WIfe just got a Tesla (I haven't even been in it yet... too busy fixing the P38)
and the P38 is keeping you too busy to start divorcing her obviously........
romanrob wrote:
WIfe just got a Tesla (I haven't even been in it yet... too busy fixing the P38) but she tells me that you subscribe to a provider, and pay that way
Report back when you get a go! I suspect you'll be surprised.
I think you are talking about a charge in lieu of road tax. I have got a plug in Volvo hybrid and at the moment it is free here in the UK.
Charging points are a mess here. There are at least four different types each with a different cable. Tesla do their own thing and only a Tesla's can use their system. There are now fast chargers with a different cable. There are also early and late cables. The Toyota Prius uses the early type. My Volvo uses the later figure of 8 cable.
You can't just turn up and plug in. You have to sign up on your phone and book the slot. Then you have got all the hassle if someone else is parked in your slot. The cost of electricity for some such as those at motorway service areas works out more than the equivalent cost of fuel. 35p/kWh in some cases. At home I am paying 13p/kWh.
One or two are free such as larger supermarkets, but they are few and far between.
A few years ago I unwisely got involved in arguing about EVs on PistonHeads forum, I should have known better lol! I first looked at EV threads out of interest but when I read how users were all saying how convenient and inexpensive they were to run I couldn't help sticking my oar in. I said charging couldn't stay free, range is too limited unless you only use for local shopping trips and charge at home, charging time is too long and inconvenient, length of charging time implies ques at chargers as EVs become more popular, they're not as environmentally friendly as manufacturers would have us believe, etc, and I said it would be cheaper to run a little car on LPG than an EV. I haven't posted on PistonHeads forum for a few years now but it seems I'm still remembered and strongly disliked by EVers for my earlier comments / arguments - some of my customers have mentioned me on unrelated threads, still EVers remember me and say 'ahh that nutter on the EV threads etc etc' (even if most of what I said and predicted has turned out to be true).
The other day I did have another read on PistonHeads and found this thread
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=247&t=1921254
The opening post and a video a bit further down the thread are potential situations I would have concerns about suffering if I switched to an EV.
But I haven't posted lol...
There's a guy on PistonHeads called MaxTorque who claims to be involved in EV development, which I don't doubt, he also claims to have been involved with development of the Koltec factory fitted LPG conversions at one time, I don't doubt that either. But I do doubt the depth and range of his involvement because he claims to be involved in everything from battery development, through motors and control development to chassis development. Around 10 years ago I remember a bloke called Max and his wife visiting me to have his Koltec system fixed on his Astra, that Max also told me he was a key developer of the Koltec system... I remember this because I wondered why, if he had developed it, did he seem to know bugger all about it and not know how to fix it himself. A few years ago I asked MaxTorque around 4 times if he was the same Max who brought his Koltec system to me for repair, he never did answer but every time I asked seemed to wait a couple of days until discussion/argument had moved on before his next post. I see all sorts of ironies in some of his posts, including how a couple of years ago he was saying fast chargers would be easy to set up all over the place including on most forecourts... while at work his firm developing EV's relied on diesel generators to charge EVs.
I had a specific set of requirements when I got mine. I wanted a phev that could plug in on a standard 13 amp socket and it needed to be able to tow a caravan of at least 2 tonnes with reasonable mpg. It was really to act as backup for the p38.
A pure EV could be a nightmare trying to plan a route and having to find charging stations. A Tesla seems better with their charging system.
If you live in London a pure EV could be a good bet though. It might be cheaper than buying a season ticket on the railways.
A lot of hybrids now are soft or mild hybrids. They have a regenerative system and don't plug in. The battery is there to assist with mpg.
There is a gap in the market now disposing of EV batteries in an environmentally friendly way, if you are wanting to diversify Lpgc.
Battery packs, those that couldn't be recycled or repaired of course, would need to be dismantled and broken down into constituent parts.
That is not without its dangers but could be done safely with the right equipment and procedures.
Volvo told me my hybrid battery was not covered by their extended warranty because they were not geared up as a company for handling and disposing of batteries on a national scale.
and they are now going to get even more expensive.....
https://www.parkers.co.uk/car-news/2021/plug-in-car-grant-cut/
It still surprises me how many folks are attracted to EVs because of their reduced 'Road Tax'........ !!
However I expect there will be "special environmental charges" introduced to dispose of the batteries used,
although there are plans to re-deploy the packs for home/PVC.
Incidentally can anyone explain to me how some manufacturers are extolling the virtues of NON-plugin Hybrids,
or are they really powered by 'Magic' ?!
You don't get something for nothing. The first law of thermodynamics. (or you don't get owt for nowt).
The mpg is improved quite a bit and the acceleration also with a hybrid electric motor. It is regererative. It turns kinetic energy to electrical energy.
The first stage of braking kicks in the charger, like formula 1 cars that have or used to have KERS.
I must admit zero road tax was a factor choosing my Volvo. I have also filled the tank twice in the last 2k miles. The rest has been on battery.
I get 2.4 charges for the same price as a gallon of fuel, equivalent to 120 mpg.
What I don't like is the servicing costs. £550 for a major service! Not used to these prices since I do all the p38 servicing myself.
I'm not massively sold on hybrids. You gain regenerative braking but you haul around a load of batteries and motors. If you're constantly in stop - start traffic I guess you gain more than you do on a steady A road trundle but it's all a bit marginal for me. Although 120mpg equivalent cost sounds pretty good!
Plug in hybrids were a little better in that you could get the first 30 miles emmissions free (locally) which is great for cities. But as was well documented, company car drivers bought them to get the lower benefit in kind and handed them back at the end of the lease with the charging cables still in their packets.
"Why should I charge on my own electricity bill when the company pays for petrol?"
I will admit I'm interested in a Tesla. Not because they're so cheap to run. They're sodding expensive compared to an LPG converted P38 because they're £400 a month before you even take them out of the garage.
No, I'm interested because they're stupid fast. Even a mid-range Tesla 3 will do o-60 in 4.2 seconds and the performance version is 3.3 seconds. Also, they have the super chargers which will give you 350 miles range in about 20 minutes (Tesla 3) which is fine by me.
If I got one, I'd install the home charger and then the range starts from your front door, which is a hell of a lot more than I get from LPG right now as it's 15 miles to the nearest LPG pump and I get 170miles from the P38 before it's back to petrol. Plus... you don't have to charge it once a week - you just charge it overnight, every night so it's always full. It's a different way to look at things.
I haven't driven one yet, so I might hate it.
who knows.
I've driven one, to be fair once you get used to the acceleration it's just plain boring to be honest.
No real occasion to driving one, you just point and go.
to be fair if you find driving a chore or just a way of going A to B without any occasion then they're perfect,
Whats going to be funny is in the future when all major manufacturers have gone EV how will you differentiate them..?
By rights they'll all drive the same.
Same power delivery characteristics
Handling will be similar
no nice exhaust noise to separate the models,
Self driving
same weird styling
I'm all for performance but not sure. I got dragged into a Tesla showroom in a Cambridge shopping centre last year and the guy was asked about range. He admitted that although they quote 360 miles, realistically you're pushed to manage 300. Charges in under an hour from a Tesla supercharger point but takes 9 hours from a home charger or an astounding 52 hours from a 13A socket!
We also asked about charge points further East (as a friend of Dina's was with us who works in Holland but regularly goes home to Latvia) then a serious problem occurs. You'd need to park the car in Warsaw and either take public transport the rest of the way or stop for 52 hours every 300 miles. Supercharger coverage stops at Warsaw.
But 400 a month? That's 4,800 a year so over 5 years you could buy an Aston Martin and get the performance but with the matching sountrack. I bet servicing costs are less too.....
Yep, I'm not sure they're ready yet - but they're coming so I'm conditioning myself to enjoy the changeover.
What I'm also interested in is whether EVs themselves will be a stepping stone towards Hydrogen which seems to be the runner up every time we look at clean fuel.
During a discussion at work about 20 years ago I predicted that nuclear fusion was the way forward and that one day we'd all be driving electric cars powered by a tiny fusion reactor. Equally there'd be no need for power stations or the infrastructure to distribute it, every building would also be powered by it's own fusion reactor. At the time a fusion reactor was theory and hadn't been done in practice but now it's been done by the French and NASA have miniaturised it and produced one with the intention of using it to power space stations. Scientific view at the moment is that it should be possible to mass produce them by 2025 (although Elon Musk will probably claim to have built one by next year). Barring a huge advance in battery technology, that's the way I would see it going, although doubtful I'll be around to see it.
Morat wrote:
Yep, I'm not sure they're ready yet - but they're coming so I'm conditioning myself to enjoy the changeover.
What I'm also interested in is whether EVs themselves will be a stepping stone towards Hydrogen which seems to be the runner up every time we look at clean fuel.
They're already here and have been for a while,
to be fair I bet in 10yrs time we'll still be saying "there time is coming!!" with current car sales the way they are, even if they were selling 2 million EV's per year "which they are not" they won't tip the scales by 2030.
Taxing the fuel will be mandatory though, once you remove the free fuel and tax what benefits do you have to driving electric?
I dunno, but to be fair EV charging points are more plentiful than LPG points!!
StrangeRover wrote:
I dunno, but to be fair EV charging points are more plentiful than LPG points!!
But at least we don't clog them up for an hour at a time......